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Post by PantherU on Apr 1, 2013 7:59:02 GMT -6
Don't think for a second that anyone is complacent. This is where we differ strongly. I have seen with my own eyes complacency and acceptance throughout the athletic department for the last several years. Just because you are being told by these same people that they don't accept the status quo doesn't make it so. This is the real world: Your actions define you. And the actions of so many (no all, but many) in the athletic department at UWM make it abundantly clear that they either don't care, or have long accepted that this is just the way it is around here, and we cannot and will not ever rise above our current situation. So don't feed me or the others on this board a line of BS that "everyone" is upset and it's a all-hands-on-deck mentality. The only way things change is with Actual Change. Until I see that happening, I'll refuse to buy into any lip service coming from the department. Fair enough. Let's hope they read that. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 1, 2013 8:50:41 GMT -6
Summit League, here we come! (and it's our own doggone fault).
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Post by buppie05 on Apr 1, 2013 9:43:52 GMT -6
If the HL fully dissolves (which I don't believe it will) and we aren't being considered for leagues like the MVC and A10, I believe it will have little to do with our recent basketball shortcomings. It has everything to do with the fact that since becoming D1, we have done very little to solidify our sports branding as the Milwaukee Panthers, and that we have regressed to playing in the KC again, and still have no concrete permanent plans for a future home.
It all comes down to leadership failures IMO.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 1, 2013 9:47:52 GMT -6
If the HL fully dissolves (which I don't believe it will) and we aren't being considered for leagues like the MVC and A10, I believe it will have little to do with our recent basketball shortcomings. Not that little. They certainly don't help. |
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Post by PantherU on Apr 1, 2013 10:33:13 GMT -6
If the HL fully dissolves (which I don't believe it will) and we aren't being considered for leagues like the MVC and A10, I believe it will have little to do with our recent basketball shortcomings. Not that little. They certainly don't help. It doesn't help anyone who thinks this season's record is what kills our chances. Anyone who thinks that is fooling themselves and letting dislike of Coach Jeter cloud their judgment. It's not like UIC or Loyola lit the world on fire this year. Oh, and UMKC, the team on the western bloc with the inside edge into the MVC? Anyone want to take a guess as to what their basketball record was this season?[/u] It has nothing to do with record and everything to do with infrastructure, facilities being a big part of it. UMKC announced it is moving basketball games from the 2,000-seat on-campus Swinney Rec (renovated in 2007) to the downtown 7,500-seat (expandable to 11,000) Municipal Arena. Facilities, facilities, facilities. FACILITIES. |
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Post by apaladino on Apr 1, 2013 10:35:46 GMT -6
Anyone know where our new AD is? Could it be that she has fudged this up before even working an official day on the job?
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Post by kingsteve on Apr 1, 2013 11:01:54 GMT -6
Jimmy
As usual you NAILED IT!!!!!! Teams can have an off year but facilities DO MATTER!!! They show a commitment to recruits!!! This is a perfect example....do you think UMKC would be considered if still going to play in their 2.000 seat crap hole? Oh my God!! Must be on campus, students deserve it yada yada. What a bunch of BS. Like Milwaukee, UMKC is an urban university and belongs to the whole community. Call it Geiger's folly because on top of so many poor decisions I think the move back to the KC is probably the worst of them all...if we were to have any hope of moving up into a better conference as the HL falls apart rather than sink down to the Summit League we better get going and act quickly, first step get back to the U S Cellular Arena for awhile while plans are being made (will believe when I see)...wasn/t it either Northern or Western Kentucky that also just moved to Conf USa (we probably could have by now if decent facilities or at least the U S Cell)..who much less the MV would seriously consider us saddled with the KC..brutal...what are we doing? Fiddling while Rome burns? The landscape is changing quickly all around us with conference realignments and we have set ourselves even further back... If that is the plan fine but lets once and for all decide who we are and want to be...still no athletics plan...kills me too that our new AD has to take over amonth to get on board at this crucial time? Can't she get temporary housing here and move later??? What the heck is that??? Speaks volumes to me,,ie,, there IS NO PLAN!!!! We are content with a diminsihed role ...we will end up being UMKC north in the Summit League or whatever is left of the HL. If we were to be going anywhere first thing would be to get back to the U S Cell for mens basketball,,, get a campaign going for anew practice facility and partially funded MLB baseball/track facility. That would be good... the landscape has changed....yeah, we won in a brief window at the KC in the early 2000's but the landscape has changed, faciltieis more important and competiive across the board in college athletics. Not going to cut it unless we want to become UMKC of old before they just moved back downtown there or even worse Chicago State of the North as our facilities not much better...was looking at the video of the recruit you are hyping at Vincennes and their arena looked beter than yours.. Actually had a scoreboard hanging from the ceiling in a builidng that would accomodate a decent scoreboard but I digress...
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Post by Super King on Apr 1, 2013 11:04:22 GMT -6
Facilities cost money. I'd rather be a second-rate athletics school than cowtow to the high-tech grafting involved in modern sports. Expand the Klotsche if you want to, but there's no additional revenue involved in either moving downtown or to another conference so it's a waste of money. Especially considering our attendance will never peak at more than 5000 people.
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Post by kingsteve on Apr 1, 2013 11:08:00 GMT -6
You know I respect that and a valid model. I just wish UWM would decide once and for all...while that is not my choice and I don't think that is the limit to our potential horizon and our university would benefit from a higher athletics profile and yes more expenditures as an investment I also your point....I just wish we would frickin decide once and for all who we want to be.
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Post by kingsteve on Apr 1, 2013 11:12:10 GMT -6
and furthermore be honest about it.../Geiger said we are a "pull out bleacher" school...ok...while I hate that do not insult our intelligence and lie to us...if that is what is going to be don't couch it under the guise of what a great experieince playing at the KC will be and for the students and all that...all he accomplished was diminishing and possibly tanking the whole thing....takes courage to either say we are looking for this model and it is what is and that is it or have the courage to say it was a mistake. Again, we get neither , just a bunch of pablum...either they sold the new AD a bill of goods or there is actually a plan to come....if not I feel sorry for her but then again she gets something on her resume. lLovell and Geiger were amost giggly and giddy at her press conference... very weird these days. can not figure it out...starting to think Lovell when it comes to athletics is goofy, does not have a clue and Geiger I trust as far as I can throw him...collected a nice salary at our expense
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 1, 2013 15:47:00 GMT -6
Especially considering our attendance will never peak at more than 5000 people. -- signed 2005-06 Frankly, I think some of you are downplaying the importance of an NCAA tournament berth, which, incidentally, we haven't had since the aforementioned season. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 1, 2013 15:49:02 GMT -6
It has nothing to do with record and everything to do with infrastructure. Be careful here. As far as I know, Kansas City hasn't actually been added to the MVC. |
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Post by JG Panthers on Apr 1, 2013 16:31:35 GMT -6
Especially considering our attendance will never peak at more than 5000 people. -- signed 2005-06 Frankly, I think some of you are downplaying the importance of an NCAA tournament berth, which, incidentally, we haven't had since the aforementioned season. The people you're talking about weren't fans/students/alumni when we went to the Sweet 16. I wonder if there's a correlation there (there is). |
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Post by brewcityitalian on Apr 1, 2013 20:35:02 GMT -6
UIC, VALPO, LOYOLA, UM-KC - Favorites for MVC membership www.kansascity.com/2013/03/31...onference.htmlwww.cbssports.com/collegebask...issouri-valleyUMKC is also moving back to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municip...ity,_Missouri) this upcoming season. That holds between 7300-10000 plus fans, arena is not an issue for UMKC ! some fan reaction - mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f...t=11429629&p=1Looks like some of the Valley schools pushing for UMKC. Not surprised. UMKC was gonna go to the WAC, which to me is a better conference in the MVC eyes than the Horizon. KC is in the heart of the Valley, as conference offices are in St.Louis. as for UIC, Loyola and Valpo. UIC has the Chicago Market ( they want to get into that market), Have a on campus arena, baseball ( and soon a new baseball facility ) and a practice facility,,,and Valpo has basketball arena, baseball and the Indiana Schools pulling for it. Loyola to me seems a bit odd, but it is private, and a new facility, though small. 2 more basketball schools in chicago to go along with 3 others in illinois valpo helps out the other indiana schools My money is on a 1 or 3 team expansion - if its 3 teams, id go UIC, Valpo, UMKC 1 team - between UMKC and UIC Milwaukee has the bigger athletic budget than any of those schools, but location being farthest away , and media market not as big as Chicago, and does not own or play at the Cell and is way way way behind all of these schools in regards to facilities ( if we get the cell owned its bigger than renting it), and baseball is a joke. Not to mention the mess of an athletic department and donor base and the debacle of moving back to the K-Dome thanks in part to the Geiger/ Lecrone/ Lovell Triple play. Personally, I feel the move back to the Klotsche has destroyed any opportunity of getting MVC membership in July, even if we move back to the Cell for the upcoming 13-14 season. Overall, Lovell dropped the ball bigtime, as he is not committed to athletics, and the Lacrone / Geiger tag team has screwed Milwaukee. If we had our act together, it would have been super easy to have KC, UIC and Milwaukee and make the decision as easy as 1-2-3 The leadership on this campus sucks , as evidenced since Haidet has left, and under Lovell's term. Lovell in regards to athletics is the Anti-Athletic Chancellor - piss poor decisions. He couldn't even decide the AD issue on his own I bet ! Leadership in athletics from the chancellor, the the vice chancellor, provosts,the board, athletic department, communication with the unions and dorms ( tons of bullsh*t red tape ). No wonder things don't get done, and it is a mess.. Not a chance in hell we get into the MVC ! I got a bottle of Jack Daniels Single Barrell that says we don't get into the MVC, anybody who wants to gamble against me by saying they will, bring it ! Horizon League /Summit League forever -MILWAUKEE ! We did this to ourselves. Nobody to blame, but it is Game Over. |
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Post by PantherU on Apr 1, 2013 22:55:17 GMT -6
Once again, Tony is the overly dramatic character in our play. There is no Game Over - at least not yet. The Chicago schools add nothing in standing, name recognition is lacking (If you think UW-Milwaukee is bad, try sharing your name with three other schools like Loyola). UIC has no room to grow, as the university has stretched its own resources thin as well as the students in segregated fees. Loyola has capped its arena to the point that they can't grow to the size of an MVC program. Valpo has not sold out its ARC even for conference title games.
Of the four schools mentioned, each would be ninth or tenth in men's basketball budget. Milwaukee would be fifth and a stone's throw away from fourth. Let's not forget that the university itself contributes pennies compared to the students, so there's room to go up even from there (400k in actual cash to about $5 mil from students annually).
Should the Panthers even announce that they are moving back to the Cell, the school immediately jumps to the front of the pack. The Cell is the best game facility. The student population is by far the largest. The university's budget is enormous (although for some reason we can't spend more than 400k in a $700 million budget on athletics). We have the iconic East Side, just a stone's throw away from Lake Michigan. We recruit players to live in one of the best cities in America to spend the ages 18-24. We may not be in Chicago, but we're only an hour away and as such recruit the city as well as UIC or Loyola.
Everyone wants to make a big deal out of media markets, but for mid-majors, what matters is if you are covered by the local paper. Believe it or not, Milwaukee gets a ton more play in the MJS than UIC or Loyola can get in the Trib or the CST. UIC and Loyola get about as much pub as Bradley, SIU and ISU - as in, they're mid-majors in Illinois.
Both are wonderful universities, and I'd love to bring UIC with us if the opportunity arises, but let's be fair - neither program can match us. Nor can Valpo, whose area only compares to Carbondale in the MVC, and like Carbondale has shown that it can't support sustained growth for its program.
All you need to do is look and see what each of these schools were 15 years ago. Valpo is largely the same school it was in 1998, without the Sweet 16. UIC is worse off than it was. Loyola has continued to grow more and more irrelevant with each passing year. UMKC was an afterthought in the Mid-con. In the MID-CON!
Many of you guys get on Jeter's case. I think it's fair to say that 95% of the people here don't think Jeter is the coach to move this program forward. But we were one of what...20 or so schools to win as much as 59 games from 09-10 to 11-12? We won a conference title in 2011 and had to be eliminated by the national runner-up two years in a row when otherwise we were obviously the hottest team in the HLT? People here have groaned about how Jeter hasn't won nearly enough, especially in March, to satiate them. Everyone wants more, a lot more, and most people here feel like we deserve more.
Do you all really not realize that Loyola and UIC would KILL to have our record over the past 7 seasons?
This isn't me saying that Jeter is a great coach. This is me pointing out that if you guys are so unsatisfied with his production and any number of schools - WSU, YSU, GB, UIC, Loyola - would be very pleased with their program if it accomplished what he has, isn't it obvious that this university and this program are just built to win far easier than any of those?
If we move to the Cell, we're the front runner. All Chancellor Lovell has to do is pick up the phone and invite an MVC crew up for a tour. They'll fall in love, and it'll be game over - the good kind of game over.
We have the infrastructure in place, we just need the Chancellor to push the ball off the cliff.
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