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Post by uwmplanner on Dec 21, 2011 10:02:13 GMT -6
Actually according to the MU record book there worst year at the BC averaged 9,971 fans per game in the 1999-2000. That was also Tom Crean's first year and I recall them giving away tickets like crazy so who knows if that was actual attendance.
I can't find MU's attendance records from before 1988 (pre Bradley) center. If I had to guess the 10-18 MU team coached by Bob Dukiet in the 1987-88 season probably had the low figure for attendance, that was one of there last seasons at the Cell.
I also wasn't speaking for just for MU when I said that I was comparing it to UW and MU. My point was our best season isn't as good as your worst.
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Post by PantherU on Dec 21, 2011 10:08:13 GMT -6
The point of those numbers is that now, at this point in time, Marquette is doing the right thing.
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Post by crazyfred on Dec 21, 2011 15:25:52 GMT -6
First of all, I haven't read anyone "blaming" Marquette for anything on this thread. Second, I for one will be happy to keep my nose out of your elitist program. The only school in America with a more inflated opinion of themselves is Notre Dame. There was a time not so long ago when I willingly cheered for all of Wisconsin's D-1 teams, but in my relatively short time as a Panther, I've come to see the true colors of both Marquette and Madison fans. I give credit to xtown for being bluntly honest and not paying phony lip service to UWM in his argument. I for one will not show deference to him simply because he went to almighty Marquette, and neither should any of the rest of you. Marquette won ONE national championship 34 years ago, and they act like they are Duke or UConn. They forget how little success they had under the likes of Bob Dukiet, Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deane, and Tom Crean before Dwayne Wade. I could rant on Wisconsin too, because before 2000, they had THREE tournament appearances since Pearl Harbor. We've all had our lean times, so get off your high horse! Green Bay had more tournament appearances in the 90s than Marquette or Wisconsin. The 2000s gave rise to three very successful D-1 programs in our state, and Green Bay also had a few 20-plus win seasons(with no postseason success, but hey, their coach got a "better job" with Toledo out of it.) The bad thing about all of this is if we don't renew these deals, no matter what the terms are, we are always going to have to deal with MU and UW fans trashing us all the time. So we may as well keep playing them in the hope that we can get lucky and stick it to them once and a while. On the other hand, jhart's viewpoint is also an easy one to take. The key sentence is the first. THIS thread, but do a little research and there has been bellyaching and blaming MU from you guys and jags like Fran for a decade plus on a number of threads. On THIS one, there isn't. Fran goes above and beyond and decides to do it in triplicate on other boards. I look forward to his "I stopped reading his posts" \ "he's been on ignore for X years" response.  Your comments about elitist fans can be traced to every program. Michigan State fans say that about Michigan fans. Auburn about Alabama. FSU and Florida. UCLA and USC. UC and XU. Illinois and Northwestern. The list is endless. Everyone seems to think the fan base across town or one of their rivals is the WORST EVER. Give me a break, it's the same everywhere. One thing that is universal, the despising of UW-Madison fans across the ENTIRE Big Ten, not just with Minnesota. UW-Madison fans have been voted worst in conference for three years running now. I'll bet Fran can write how proud he is of that. MU hardly acts like Duke, UNC or UCONN. You are bloviating. There is a proud tradition. This week ranked 10th puts MU tied for 16th all time with the most top 10 appearances in the AP Poll. Three Final Fours, 14 Sweet 16's, etc. Yes, a proud group of fans from a small school without state funding and a $100 million athletic department (or even a $40 million athletic department for that matter). Your comments about little success under Deane, Crean, etc was a gem to read. Crean took over a losing team. Takes awhile to rebuild, but he was in the NIT in his first year, a tournament UW-M fans generally get excited about. By his third year in the NCAAs. His fourth year in the Final Four. Deane went to the post season 4 times out of five, including the NIT Finals and two NCAA appearances. Yes, under MU's criteria for success, that wasn't enough and he was fired. For most other DI schools, 100 wins and 4 post season appearances in five years would get you a contract extension. As far as trashing UW-M all the time, again, go look at the posts outside of this thread. Go look at Bud's behavior. Go look at Badger fans behavior on other boards over the years. The evidence is a mile long and 20 miles wide. This idea that you guys haven't been involved in the sniping, the blaming, the ankle biting along with other UW participants is laughable. |
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Post by crazyfred on Dec 21, 2011 15:37:02 GMT -6
THIS.I love it how people have such selective memories. UW-Madison's 2000 Final Four run, was THE FIRST TIME they had ever even reached the Sweet 16 in the long and storied athletics history (since what 1895?). Before Barry Alvarez and the whole "Red ink to Roses" (esp. when my parents were students there in the mid-late 70's), the Badger football teams literally played to a few thousand bored onlookers at Camp Randall. And I don't seem to recall Marquette fans talk much about how they fared throughout nearly the entire stretch between when Al left and D-Wade resurrected the program. My how things can change, eh? Don't think it can for us? It already has (from 2003-2006) albeit for a brief period of time. And it may be happening again.. right under your thumbed nose. Don't thumb your nose at us, just because you've had a lot more historical success than Milwaukee (remember that we've only been "permanently" D-I since 1990). You have also had a lot more down years... and I'll guarantee that if Discussion Boards were around during those doldrums MU and UW fans would probably be bemoaning the lack of equity in series contracts just as many Panther fans here are. I think 2-1 makes sense for both "potential" UW and MU series contracts. But I'm sure hotter heads will prevail and we will just have to look elsewhere. I'd rather a 2-2 with Davidson, Northern Iowa, Drexel, Bradley, Saint Mary's, Wichita State or any other good "Mid-Major" than a 3-1 with UW or MU. A 100% advantage (2 home games vs 1 home game for us) isn't good enough for you? Fine. Take your ball and go home. Rip up the "fair is what we deem fair" 4-1 contract. It just isn't worth it anymore when we have (and yes, we do have) other non-con options. I wasn't always of this mindset.. but people like xtownfan have made it abundantly clear that MU is not interesting in making this a competitive series (pretty hard to be competitive when you play 1 home game every 5 years of the series...). Well, at least we have one more for certain. See ya Thursday!  First of all, UW-madison won the national title back when there were peach baskets hung, but they won it nevertheless. So your opening statement is incorrect. Granted, only 8 teams were invited back then and it was hardly representative of a true national championship considering some of the best schools didn't play but opted for the more prestigious tournament, but they had achieved success prior. You might want to look at some of the attendance numbers between when Al left and when Wade resurrected the program. Some years were lean (by MU's standards but UW-m would go ape crazy for those results) but there were also some solid years in there as well. If you have other non-conference options, then by all means end this thing. It hasn't come close to providing the attendance numbers that were talked about from Mike Hunt, Bud Haidet and the corps of whiners for this series. It continues to be net positive for only one party, UW-M. If MU loses, RPI hit, reputation hit. I agree, after this year, pursue those other non-conference options that you have. By all means. |
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Post by crazyfred on Dec 21, 2011 15:45:03 GMT -6
Actually according to the MU record book there worst year at the BC averaged 9,971 fans per game in the 1999-2000. That was also Tom Crean's first year and I recall them giving away tickets like crazy so who knows if that was actual attendance. I can't find MU's attendance records from before 1988 (pre Bradley) center. If I had to guess the 10-18 MU team coached by Bob Dukiet in the 1987-88 season probably had the low figure for attendance, that was one of there last seasons at the Cell. I also wasn't speaking for just for MU when I said that I was comparing it to UW and MU. My point was our best season isn't as good as your worst. Marquette sold out the MECCA including Dukiet's years. |
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Dec 21, 2011 15:50:50 GMT -6
First of all, I haven't read anyone "blaming" Marquette for anything on this thread. Second, I for one will be happy to keep my nose out of your elitist program. The only school in America with a more inflated opinion of themselves is Notre Dame. There was a time not so long ago when I willingly cheered for all of Wisconsin's D-1 teams, but in my relatively short time as a Panther, I've come to see the true colors of both Marquette and Madison fans. I give credit to xtown for being bluntly honest and not paying phony lip service to UWM in his argument. I for one will not show deference to him simply because he went to almighty Marquette, and neither should any of the rest of you. Marquette won ONE national championship 34 years ago, and they act like they are Duke or UConn. They forget how little success they had under the likes of Bob Dukiet, Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deane, and Tom Crean before Dwayne Wade. I could rant on Wisconsin too, because before 2000, they had THREE tournament appearances since Pearl Harbor. We've all had our lean times, so get off your high horse! Green Bay had more tournament appearances in the 90s than Marquette or Wisconsin. The 2000s gave rise to three very successful D-1 programs in our state, and Green Bay also had a few 20-plus win seasons(with no postseason success, but hey, their coach got a "better job" with Toledo out of it.) The bad thing about all of this is if we don't renew these deals, no matter what the terms are, we are always going to have to deal with MU and UW fans trashing us all the time. So we may as well keep playing them in the hope that we can get lucky and stick it to them once and a while. On the other hand, jhart's viewpoint is also an easy one to take. The key sentence is the first. THIS thread, but do a little research and there has been bellyaching and blaming MU from you guys and jags like Fran for a decade plus on a number of threads. On THIS one, there isn't. Fran goes above and beyond and decides to do it in triplicate on other boards. I look forward to his "I stopped reading his posts" \ "he's been on ignore for X years" response. Your comments about elitist fans can be traced to every program. Michigan State fans say that about Michigan fans. Auburn about Alabama. FSU and Florida. UCLA and USC. UC and XU. Illinois and Northwestern. The list is endless. Everyone seems to think the fan base across town or one of their rivals is the WORST EVER. Give me a break, it's the same everywhere. One thing that is universal, the despising of UW-Madison fans across the ENTIRE Big Ten, not just with Minnesota. UW-Madison fans have been voted worst in conference for three years running now. I'll bet Fran can write how proud he is of that. MU hardly acts like Duke, UNC or UCONN. You are bloviating. There is a proud tradition. This week ranked 10th puts MU tied for 16th all time with the most top 10 appearances in the AP Poll. Three Final Fours, 14 Sweet 16's, etc. Yes, a proud group of fans from a small school without state funding and a $100 million athletic department (or even a $40 million athletic department for that matter). Your comments about little success under Deane, Crean, etc was a gem to read. Crean took over a losing team. Takes awhile to rebuild, but he was in the NIT in his first year, a tournament UW-M fans generally get excited about. By his third year in the NCAAs. His fourth year in the Final Four. Deane went to the post season 4 times out of five, including the NIT Finals and two NCAA appearances. Yes, under MU's criteria for success, that wasn't enough and he was fired. For most other DI schools, 100 wins and 4 post season appearances in five years would get you a contract extension. As far as trashing UW-M all the time, again, go look at the posts outside of this thread. Go look at Bud's behavior. Go look at Badger fans behavior on other boards over the years. The evidence is a mile long and 20 miles wide. This idea that you guys haven't been involved in the sniping, the blaming, the ankle biting along with other UW participants is laughable. Why did you continuously reference Badger fans in response to what I wrote? As far as I'm concerned, their basketball fans are of the same ilk as yours, except their forgetfulness regarding 60 years of horrible basketball prior to 2000 makes them just a bit worse. And your right, the key sentence was the first. I was only referring to this thread. I haven't taken part in any past arguments on this subject. As I said earlier, there was a time not long ago where I followed all of Wisconsin's college basketball teams. But the way Marquette and Wisconsin fans act, including close friends of mine, since I became a student at UWM has totally changed that. It sounds like you have a much bigger problems with Badger fans than us. Go b**** at them on their board. |
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Post by uwmfutbol on Dec 21, 2011 17:29:49 GMT -6
"One thing that is universal, the despising of UW-Madison fans across the ENTIRE Big Ten, not just with Minnesota. UW-Madison fans have been voted worst in conference for three years running now. I'll bet Fran can write how proud he is of that."
Link?
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Post by crazyfred on Dec 21, 2011 18:56:26 GMT -6
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Post by crazyfred on Dec 21, 2011 18:59:03 GMT -6
Why did you continuously reference Badger fans in response to what I wrote? As far as I'm concerned, their basketball fans are of the same ilk as yours, except their forgetfulness regarding 60 years of horrible basketball prior to 2000 makes them just a bit worse. And your right, the key sentence was the first. I was only referring to this thread. I haven't taken part in any past arguments on this subject. As I said earlier, there was a time not long ago where I followed all of Wisconsin's college basketball teams. But the way Marquette and Wisconsin fans act, including close friends of mine, since I became a student at UWM has totally changed that. It sounds like you have a much bigger problems with Badger fans than us. Go b*tch at them on their board. I specifically pointed out a UW-M \ UW-madison fan. I also mentioned if you do a little history here (i.e. SEARCH) you will find plenty of Panther fans guilty of this. It reached a fever pitch about five years ago. Plenty of examples of the very thing you said didn't happen. It happened en masse here. |
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Post by uwmfutbol on Dec 21, 2011 21:38:53 GMT -6
I've read that article, but you mentioned something about them receiving such an unfortunate "honor" three years in a row. Also, I'll be the first to admit that Badger fans are obnoxious and rowdy at football games, but travel to most venues with hardcore fans and you'll find the exact same behavior. That doesn't mean I condone it, but it's a reality. I suspect that what makes Wisconsin stand out is the fact that it's a recent development, coupled with the "Eat s**t, F**k you" chant. My wife worked with several Big Ten alumni, and the general consensus was that visiting fans tended to be treated very poorly at all of the visited campuses (most notably OSU, Iowa and Michigan State in addition to Madison). |
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dutchpthr
Junior
ain't much if it ain't dutch
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Post by dutchpthr on Dec 21, 2011 22:09:04 GMT -6
wow shocking, a thread about a MU/UWM game that has gone way off the rails..... |
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Post by ghostpost on Dec 21, 2011 23:00:39 GMT -6
Ahh. And the Real voice of Reason prevails (thank you, dutchpthr). We all have our gripes and pride-grips. They are mostly linked to subjective opinions that will always outweigh or at least in some way influence the facts. But the facts are.. the facts.
Let's just make it a game tomorrow, eh? GO PANTHERS.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Dec 22, 2011 7:50:22 GMT -6
wow shocking, a thread about a MU/UWM game that has gone way off the rails..... Well i never! |
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Post by Super King on Dec 22, 2011 8:39:02 GMT -6
Marquette has a national championship and we don't, so any time a Marquette fan takes extended time out of his life to defend his basketball program to us I roll my eyes so hard I think I see through time.
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Post by Super King on Dec 22, 2011 8:40:13 GMT -6
But yeah, kudos for the whole being-in-the-upper-echelon-of-spenders-in-the-Big-East-despite-not-having-a-football-program thing!
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