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Post by PantherU on Dec 14, 2011 0:48:37 GMT -6
PantherU Story: Loss by DesignWith the contracts ending with UW and MU, I have a proposal for the future of each series. |
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Post by tyrunner0097 on Dec 14, 2011 15:57:05 GMT -6
I think this is not a bad idea...I like the idea of the 2-1 with Marquette and I think more real basketball fans prefer the Cell to the BC...
The BC may be less aged and have higher capacity for more crowds, but the Cell has much better sightlines and is definitely more intimate than the BC, which is really only good for hockey.
If nothing else, I would like to see us battle other top-major programs, like Missouri, NC State, Georgetown...There are plenty of top programs to try to prove ourselves against rather than UW and MU...
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Post by illwauk on Dec 14, 2011 16:26:27 GMT -6
The time for MU to start playing Milwaukee again was the Bruce Pearl era. They ducked us until Pearl left and most of the players from the Sweet Sixteen squad had graduated and, thus, a true rivalry never generated. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit angry at Marquette for letting their arrogance make them too short sighted to see that an annual Milwaukee-Marquette game could've become a huge annual event in SE Wisconsin during a time of year when we have little going on.
But I agree if we can't get any respect in our own state (which anyone who grew up in Milwaukee is already used to), then lets seek out A-10 and Big East schools like LaSalle, St. John's, Fordham, UMass and Georgetown that play in large, east coast media markets and make our name that way. The only reason UW and MU get away with treating us like an annoying little brother is because they think we can't do any better for ourselves, its time to let them know that's not the case!
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Post by tyrunner0097 on Dec 14, 2011 16:33:31 GMT -6
The time for MU to start playing Milwaukee again was the Bruce Pearl era. They ducked us until Pearl left and most of the players from the Sweet Sixteen squad had graduated and, thus, a true rivalry never generated. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit angry at Marquette for letting their arrogance make them too short sighted to see that an annual Milwaukee-Marquette game could've become a huge annual event in SE Wisconsin during a time of year when we have little going on. But I agree if we can't get any respect in our own state (which anyone who grew up in Milwaukee is already used to), then lets seek out A-10 and Big East schools like LaSalle, St. John's, Fordham, UMass and Georgetown that play in large, east coast media markets and make our name that way. The only reason UW and MU get away with treating us like an annoying little brother is because they think we can't do any better for ourselves, its time to let them know that's not the case! And it is not hard to notice that neither UW or MU want to renegoicate a 2-1 when we lost to MU by only 3 points last year and came back from 17 down to push UW to the final minute...They know we are getting very good again and once again, they want to cower out to save face... |
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Post by Super King on Dec 14, 2011 16:45:10 GMT -6
Wisconsin will never duck out of the series while Bo and Rob are coaching their respective programs, but I could see Marquette doing it.
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Post by Hack on Dec 14, 2011 16:49:54 GMT -6
The time for MU to start playing Milwaukee again was the Bruce Pearl era. They ducked us until Pearl left and most of the players from the Sweet Sixteen squad had graduated and, thus, a true rivalry never generated. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the least bit angry at Marquette for letting their arrogance make them too short sighted to see that an annual Milwaukee-Marquette game could've become a huge annual event in SE Wisconsin during a time of year when we have little going on. To avoid rehashing the same ol' tired arguments and prevent an onslaught of MU folks chiming in, Bud's verbal barbs in the media sure didn't help things. Both sides were at fault as to why they weren't playing from 1999 to 2006. And rivalry talk? Sorry, it's going to take a lot more (mostly from this side of the equation) to make it a rivalry. Just because we had a couple of good years under Pearl doesn't mean a rivalry generates overnight. |
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Post by BBFran on Dec 14, 2011 17:38:41 GMT -6
I love the idea of playing equitable series with other BE, B10 and A10 level teams.
Please get back to me on why any of them would give us such series.
The truth is we are in just about the toughest position possible to schedule equitable home and home series with high D1 teams. If they beat us, they get no reputational credit for doing so (even though in most years we are a solid "rpi" opponent). If they lose to us, their fans throw an absolute fit. It's a coach's nightmare scenario. Only one team in the league has even gotten close to this kind of scheduling -- Butler. We need to make a few more NCAA appearances to think this is a practical possibility.
Wisconsin and Marquette play us for different reasons.
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Post by illwauk on Dec 14, 2011 18:25:07 GMT -6
I love the idea of playing equitable series with other BE, B10 and A10 level teams. Please get back to me on why any of them would give us such series. If Mizzou and Cincy were willing to go 2-for-1 with us, then why wouldn't, say, a Fordham or a St. John's? Frankly, the exposure in the country's biggest media market and being able to sell recruits on a semi-annual trip to New York is worth much more than anything MU has ever offered us. Also, while beating MU (ow UW) might mean something within Wisconsin, they're not exactly the type of wins that command respect nationally. The truth is we are in just about the toughest position possible to schedule equitable home and home series with high D1 teams. If they beat us, they get no reputational credit for doing so (even though in most years we are a solid "rpi" opponent). If they lose to us, their fans throw an absolute fit. It's a coach's nightmare scenario. Only one team in the league has even gotten close to this kind of scheduling -- Butler. We need to make a few more NCAA appearances to think this is a practical possibility. No arguments here. The goal for Milwaukee basketball at the moment should be to become a regular presence in the NCAA's. If we happen to knock off an in-state, out-of-conference opponent along the way, great. But those games are nothing to base an entire program on. |
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Post by xtownfan on Dec 14, 2011 18:50:31 GMT -6
Good luck with that. If you can get major programs to schedule you on more favorable terms than you are currently getting from Marquette and Wisconsin, more power to you. But the last time I looked, you were filling your schedule with the likes of Nebraska-Omaha and Southwestern Minnesota Something or Other. In recent years, you have had far more D-2 teams on your schedule than major conference D-1 teams. I recall reading about the great teams that were going to schedule UWM when the debate about playing Marquette was going on. In ensuing years, you played home-and-home series with Wyoming and a number of MAC teams. Nary a major conference team on your schedule outside of Marquette or Wisconsin, save for the occasional early-season tournament.
I do not know what your deal is with De Paul, but if that is the best you can do from the Big East, it is not impressive in recent years. This year you got Michigan State. I do not know what the terms are. Good luck in that series. But the idea that UWM is in a position to make lots of demands is a dangerous one. It is what kept the series against Marquette in hiatus. (Well, that and the fact that Bruce Pearl was an a$$#0!e and Bud couldn't keep his foot out of his mouth.) You folks have to accept what your AD has probably already figured out. These series mean a whole lot more to UWM than they do to either Marquette or Wisconsin. They can easily fill their schedule with somebody else. I hope you do well this year since you are on our schedule, but it is entirely possible that the wins against Norfolk State are going to turn out to be more important than the game against UWM for Marquette.
The only way you make this a game that the big teams have some additional incentive to play is win a whole lot more in more important games. If you want to schedule like Butler does, do what Butler did. Otherwise, you are just another team. Good some years, bad others, and easily replaceable.
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Post by illwauk on Dec 14, 2011 21:12:46 GMT -6
Butler bandwagoners sure are funny!
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Post by parkerj on Dec 14, 2011 21:54:55 GMT -6
Butler bandwagoners sure are funny! xtown is a MU fan |
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Post by Hack on Dec 14, 2011 22:04:34 GMT -6
Butler bandwagoners sure are funny! He's an MU fan, and he was fairly spot on with most of what he said. |
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Post by gman2 on Dec 15, 2011 0:34:32 GMT -6
I have to agree with what xtownfan had to say. Until we are a proven commodity that will make regular NCAA tournament appearances, and make noise in those tournaments, we are in no position to dictate terms.
The game against Bucky I could do without and wouldn't miss it. MU is my second favorite team in the state, so I like that game. If we end up with another 4-1 series, so be it. We haven't done anything that would allow us to dictate otherwise.
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Post by parkerj on Dec 15, 2011 0:44:24 GMT -6
If Mizzou and Cincy were willing to go 2-for-1 with us, then why wouldn't, say, a Fordham or a St. John's? Frankly, the exposure in the country's biggest media market and being able to sell recruits on a semi-annual trip to New York is worth much more than anything MU has ever offered us. i'm just gonna quote this paragraph...2 for 1>4 for 1 |
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Post by PantherU on Dec 15, 2011 2:12:21 GMT -6
I would prefer that this doesn't become a pissing match on the Bruce/Bud - Tom/Bill era. Frankly, neither side was clean. It was a heated rivalry in the media and behind closed doors, not on the court, and it was poorly handled on both sides. Egos got in the way of what should have been a polite discussion. I'm much happier with Rob and Buzz as the coaches as far as the series is concerned, because they're not the kind of guys who will go on radio shows and drag the other team's name through the mud nor the kind of guys who will flip off an entire fan section and tell coaches' wives to "f*** off."
The past is the past. This should be a discussion about the future of the series, as it's the title of the thread. If you'd like to bemoan the lack of games between 02-06, talk about MU ducking or Bruce Pearl acting like a jackass, feel free to start another thread. Keep this thread clear of harsh feelings.
As xtown rightly points out, the series at 4-1 is a no-win situation for Marquette.
My point is simply that each series, from our point of view, would be better off not played then carried on at a higher cost than 2-for-1. Marquette's now-former AD was willing to do that, but I'm sure that certain MU fans will try to convince the new boss otherwise. (side note: great hire!)
What xtown represents is the Marquette point of view. They really are in a no-win situation, because a loss would be far more damaging than, say, the North Dakota State loss was for them. Victories are expected.
I think that the series makes more sense for Wisconsin than it does for Marquette. Wisconsin's season-ticket base is almost entirely in the Madison area, whereas Marquette's season-ticket base is almost entirely in Milwaukee and northeastern Illinois. Wisconsin has the predominant fan base in the Milwaukee area (I think we can all agree on that), and almost none of those fans get to see their Badgers basketball team in action. Every other year they play at Marquette, but as we saw Tuesday night there were a few thousand UW fans who were able to see a game this year when otherwise they'd have to go far out of their way to do so. Because of this, Wisconsin is doing their Milwaukee fan base a favor by playing this game down here.
Marquette should consider making the occasional visit down to Loyola, UIC, Chicago State or Northwestern - MU's largest alumni base is in the Chicago area, and they'd be doing their fans down there a favor by getting them an easily-accessible road game. I realize they play DePaul, but that doesn't mean you can't go for more.
At the end of the day, xtown represents the best interests of his university and we ours. If neither side can be satisfied, then the best thing is for us to part until satisfaction is attained.
My simple point is that continuing a 4-for-1 is detrimental to Milwaukee, who needs a win in that series but is unlikely to get it on the road.
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