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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Nov 9, 2011 18:28:27 GMT -6
Anyone can fill in the blank here, but JJ didn't get to many minutes this past Saturday with James and Kyle in foul trouble.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Nov 10, 2011 8:50:13 GMT -6
Quite clearly, I believe that J.J. can help the team win now and isn't just "a big body to throw out on the court."
That's what precipitated this discussion in the first place.
Will this be the year that the Panthers pull out all the stops to win in the non-conference season?
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Post by uwmbacker24 on Nov 10, 2011 9:09:28 GMT -6
I like J.J a lot but I think we would need both Tony and J.J to have a chance against the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan State, Marquette and even Northern Iowa.
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Post by BBFran on Nov 10, 2011 9:25:15 GMT -6
What 24 said. Having JJ available against MSU, UW, MU, DePaul is about 1/20th as important as having Tony.
Whether JJ redshirts or not is up to him. But to suggest he shouldn't do so because of the NON-conference season? That doesn't make much sense. We don't win anything in the non-conference.
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Post by skrapheap on Nov 10, 2011 9:53:31 GMT -6
Whether JJ redshirts or not is up to him. But to suggest he shouldn't do so because of the NON-conference season? That doesn't make much sense. We don't win anything in the non-conference.
i don't know whether or not the program has developed to that stage. i don't know whether or not the non-conference schedule we have this year is likely to boost our chances for an at-large bid should we do really well. But that's the only reason i see for considering the non-conference portion of the schedule in this situation. |
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Post by Super King on Nov 10, 2011 10:44:03 GMT -6
I think we're closer to that level than you realize, but it's certainly not something you can hedge your bets on to start the year.
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Post by BBFran on Nov 10, 2011 12:52:18 GMT -6
This will be another year where the only way the HL gets an at-large bid is if a team that dominates the conference loses in the semis or, more likely, the final of the HLT. Just like last year, I don't see any team dominating the League this year. The BU/Milwaukee final was a true playoff -- they almost certainly would not have gotten a bid if they had lost to us (for a third time). They simply had too many conference losses.
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Post by PantherU on Nov 10, 2011 13:17:20 GMT -6
I think you play to get into the tournament. And I don't think playing an entire season to win 2-4 games in March is the best way to do it. I think you have to play every game like your season is on the line, because having it actually all come down to one Tuesday in March is a great way to build suspense and a great way to lose your shot at the tournament with one night of bad shooting.
So, if J.J. is going to play any time of consequence (read: 10+ mpg), then I'd play him. We need all the help we can get. This is Tony, Kaylon, and Ryan Allen's senior year - we should be playing to get into the tournament. I just don't see how redshirting anyone who can significantly help is a good idea with that goal.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Nov 10, 2011 15:48:31 GMT -6
Kaylon Williams will serve a one game suspension this Saturday.
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Post by thepantherfan on Nov 10, 2011 15:59:56 GMT -6
I think you play to get into the tournament. And I don't think playing an entire season to win 2-4 games in March is the best way to do it. I think you have to play every game like your season is on the line, because having it actually all come down to one Tuesday in March is a great way to build suspense and a great way to lose your shot at the tournament with one night of bad shooting. So, if J.J. is going to play any time of consequence (read: 10+ mpg), then I'd play him. We need all the help we can get. This is Tony, Kaylon, and Ryan Allen's senior year - we should be playing to get into the tournament. I just don't see how redshirting anyone who can significantly help is a good idea with that goal. The question is philosophical in nature, and is dependent on how you believe a college basketball program should be run. It’s very much analogous to a corporation adding value to its shareholders. Some management teams take it one quarter at a time, fighting tooth and nail to filch every bit of revenue through to the bottom line to beat quarterly earnings targets. Then there are those management teams who believe in fostering long-term prospects for the company. These management teams are more concerned with delivering long term performance than maximizing short term earnings. They will not sacrifice long-term prosperity for short-term gains. There is no right or wrong way to view a college basketball program. For those who firmly believe we can compete in the non-conference schedule and maybe vie for an at-large bid, it would make perfect sense to go into the season holding nothing back, and trying to maximize all the talent on the team. I tend to favor the side of long-term thinking, and I do not believe we will be competitive enough in non-conference competition to warrant an at-large bid (an opinion). Even our very best teams in Panther history got drubbings in the non-conference section of the schedule. Mid-major programs simply become more competitive as the season progresses and it’s no longer who has the bigger talented players, but who can play better as a team. This was evident when the ’04-’05 team got dismantled by the Badgers early in the season only to make it to the Sweet 16 at the end of the season. In my opinion, I think the only way for the Panthers to dance is to win the conference tournament. So in my eyes the goal is to position ourselves in way that gives us the best odds of doing that. That would mean doing well in conference play to secure the #1 seed. I’m looking at the non-conference part of the schedule as boot-camp for conference play. Not that it doesn’t matter, to the contrary it matters a lot. Non-conference is where we get to tweak our rotation, and get comfortable with our offense. We get to see our weaknesses and hopefully correct them by the time conference play rolls around. So to me it’s not as important how we do in conference play, but what we get out of it. |
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Post by Super King on Nov 10, 2011 18:35:40 GMT -6
Our Sweet Sixteen year we beat Purdue didn't we?
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Post by thepantherfan on Nov 10, 2011 18:40:27 GMT -6
Our Sweet Sixteen year we beat Purdue didn't we? Yes, a 4-13 Purdue team. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Nov 11, 2011 6:39:25 GMT -6
I think you play to get into the tournament. And I don't think playing an entire season to win 2-4 games in March is the best way to do it. I think you have to play every game like your season is on the line, because having it actually all come down to one Tuesday in March is a great way to build suspense and a great way to lose your shot at the tournament with one night of bad shooting. So, if J.J. is going to play any time of consequence (read: 10+ mpg), then I'd play him. We need all the help we can get. This is Tony, Kaylon, and Ryan Allen's senior year - we should be playing to get into the tournament. I just don't see how redshirting anyone who can significantly help is a good idea with that goal. In my opinion, I think the only way for the Panthers to dance is to win the conference tournament. So in my eyes the goal is to position ourselves in way that gives us the best odds of doing that. That would mean doing well in conference play to secure the #1 seed. That's exactly what the Panthers did a year ago ... and they still wound up a long, long way from the NCAA tournament. Milwaukee is now 3-2 in league championship games on its home court. That's certainly far from a guarantee. |
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Post by thepantherfan on Nov 11, 2011 7:49:59 GMT -6
In my opinion, I think the only way for the Panthers to dance is to win the conference tournament. So in my eyes the goal is to position ourselves in way that gives us the best odds of doing that. That would mean doing well in conference play to secure the #1 seed. That's exactly what the Panthers did a year ago ... and they still wound up a long, long way from the NCAA tournament. Milwaukee is now 3-2 in league championship games on its home court. That's certainly far from a guarantee. who said anything about a guarantee? I believe me using the term "best odds" in the section you've quoted above precludes any notion of guarantee. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Nov 11, 2011 9:31:10 GMT -6
Some really good points being made on both sides.
For the record, I'm not talking about beating heavyweights Michigan State, Wisconsin and Marquette (I harbor no such illusions), but rather not losing to lightweights Northern Illinois, Texas Southern, DePaul and the like, as we have too many times in the past.
Just remember that in holding back, we might have J.J. a year stronger and more mature next season, but we will not have Tony Meier, Kaylon Williams or Ryan Allen. Playing Kyle Kelm didn't stunt his development.
At some point, this program has to adopt the approach that the so-called next level is now.
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