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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 8, 2022 11:00:20 GMT -6
Thats my point from earlier. Maybe the raw talent was there but the coaching never brought it out.
Not saying we had top tier players.
But going forward, we dont know what we dont know. Until a coach comes in, we have no real insight into the players they recruit, the region or if players will stay.
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Post by BBFran on Mar 8, 2022 11:53:26 GMT -6
Over the last six years? Nze, Bell, Stull, Prahl ... I think one argument that can be made is that PBS brought in players with more hype and perhaps better ratings than in previous I guess what I’m saying is that Baldwin may have recruited some talented basketball players who weren’t coached well and who didn’t mesh well together. Or maybe they were just overhyped. But before Baldwin, the players may not have been as talented, but they played well together and were coached better. At least well enough to finish in the middle of the conference most years instead of the bottom. I have bolded the key phrase. Anyone who doesn't see that there was a SUBSTANTIAL drop in talent in our program from the players Jeter and Boudreau recruited who played for us and the players we have recruited since does not understand winning basketball. It's that simple. Was Jeter a better coach than Jordan and a much better coach than Baldwin? Obviously, but that's a low bar. He also brought in MUCH better players, as did Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl. In all the discussion here about what new coach we should get one of the KEY requirements is that the new coach MUST be able to recognize and recruit talented players. In our program that absolutely must start with getting talented "local" players -- ESPECIALLY from the Milwaukee area and Wisconsin, but also Illinois, Iowa, etc. If we hire a coach who doesn't have the LOCAL recruiting connections and chops, we'll be in trouble again. And as we saw in the Baldwin tenure, just having some guy on staff from the area doesn't cut it. The HEAD coach needs to be able to do this. It's painful to watch guys like Grant Basile and Marcus Domask tear it up at other programs because ours has imploded.
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Post by steveisback on Mar 8, 2022 12:19:20 GMT -6
Fran, Great post. Know there have been numerous observations here about all the talent in recent years. Well, definitely overhyped. The talent Jeter had at the end was way better than what came after. Harry Henderson or whatever his name was, Vin Baker Jr. Eye test on both these guys told a way different story. I would take Panoske even over VBJ and Henderson was a small notch above Burleigh Porte. Curious on Basile. Did we even offer him? Understand sometimes kids want to get away to school and other factors but if we did not even pursue him then I have a big problem.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 8, 2022 13:11:48 GMT -6
Fran, Great post. Know there have been numerous observations here about all the talent in recent years. Well, definitely overhyped. The talent Jeter had at the end was way better than what came after. Harry Henderson or whatever his name was, Vin Baker Jr. Eye test on both these guys told a way different story. I would take Panoske even over VBJ and Henderson was a small notch above Burleigh Porte. Curious on Basile. Did we even offer him? Understand sometimes kids want to get away to school and other factors but if we did not even pursue him then I have a big problem. Steve, we definitely did NOT offer him and my connections tell me that we didn't even SCOUT him. That's a problem!
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Post by steveisback on Mar 9, 2022 8:49:48 GMT -6
Paul
We did not even scout him?? What the heck???
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Post by Petes on Mar 9, 2022 9:35:33 GMT -6
Paul We did not even scout him?? What the heck??? Wright state offered super early when he only had d2 offers and grant committed soon after. Didn’t really give anyone else a chance to recruit.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 9, 2022 10:08:57 GMT -6
Paul We did not even scout him?? What the heck??? Wright state offered super early when he only had d2 offers and grant committed soon after. Didn’t really give anyone else a chance to recruit. This goes back to what Fran was talking about with having a coach on staff with local ties. Sharif Chambliss recruited Basile to Wright State.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 9, 2022 11:29:04 GMT -6
Wright state offered super early when he only had d2 offers and grant committed soon after. Didn’t really give anyone else a chance to recruit. This goes back to what Fran was talking about with having a coach on staff with local ties. Sharif Chambliss recruited Basile to Wright State. BOOM!!!!
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 9, 2022 14:30:47 GMT -6
Its not like the wisconsin hoops scene is super exclusive literally all you have to do is send some coaches to games, the program barely has done that the last decade. Ive known a few guys who went D1 and none of them are ever scouted or recruited hard by UWM. Most of the quality is within 30 to 45 min of campus so there is no excuse to not be going to games. I like the ghost hear things from the hs hoops scene here and its pretty bad how little they seem to try on instate guys.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 9, 2022 14:52:44 GMT -6
Its not like the wisconsin hoops scene is super exclusive literally all you have to do is send some coaches to games, the program barely has done that the last decade. Ive known a few guys who went D1 and none of them are ever scouted or recruited hard by UWM. Most of the quality is within 30 to 45 min of campus so there is no excuse to not be going to games. I like the ghost hear things from the hs hoops scene here and its pretty bad how little they seem to try on instate guys. LaVall Jordan talked a big game about recruiting locally and moving outward and then recruited no one from the area.
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 9, 2022 14:55:17 GMT -6
Its not like the wisconsin hoops scene is super exclusive literally all you have to do is send some coaches to games, the program barely has done that the last decade. Ive known a few guys who went D1 and none of them are ever scouted or recruited hard by UWM. Most of the quality is within 30 to 45 min of campus so there is no excuse to not be going to games. I like the ghost hear things from the hs hoops scene here and its pretty bad how little they seem to try on instate guys. LaVall Jordan talked a big game about recruiting locally and moving outward and then recruited no one from the area. Yeah granted its hard when you barely are here. I will say everything I hear from HS talent here is basically I would never want to go to Milwaukee and play. Have to find some talent that really wants to stay home. I think some of that goes into other issues that I won't touch on here but it is going to be really hard to keep local talent here until the wins come.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 9, 2022 15:03:26 GMT -6
What we really need is someone to SELL the program to the state and local kids right off the bat (as well as to the alumni and campus community). I suspect that the three of us have spoken with some of the same people. If you don't at least PITCH the program, you have NO chance to land the local talent.
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 9, 2022 15:08:57 GMT -6
The best college hoops HC's have a good chunk of used car salesman in them. At this level I would say its crucial. PBS couldnt sell weed in a dispensary.
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Post by Pantherholic on Mar 10, 2022 9:17:37 GMT -6
Yeah granted its hard when you barely are here. I will say everything I hear from HS talent here is basically I would never want to go to Milwaukee and play. Have to find some talent that really wants to stay home. I think some of that goes into other issues that I won't touch on here but it is going to be really hard to keep local talent here until the wins come. I agree about Jordan and I would question how good of in-state connections Lowery, Townsend and McGee all had. Just because you’re from the state and/or coached in-state doesn’t mean you have a lot of connections. Not many in-state offers were ever sent out for guys who are from here or coached here before.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 10, 2022 12:16:54 GMT -6
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