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Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 21, 2022 8:11:05 GMT -6
A half-filled or 33%-filled or quarter-filled Arena is better than the Klotsche. Let's hope that we can get back to that on a semi-regular basis in the not-too-distant future, but it will take some work (see the "Attack Apathy" thread for ideas).
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Post by Cactus Panther on Mar 21, 2022 9:32:05 GMT -6
I still think the best place for Milwaukee games would be a filled Mecca. Place is awesome for hoops and if the team is good the fans will come back out pretty quickly. I was at a high school game with a couple 1000 people at it a few weeks ago. There are lots of hoops fans in the area, Lundy winning some games early next year will bring more and more fans out. Ideally, the arena has nearly twice the capacity of what it should be for the Panther program. Otherwise yes, it is the place to be. Even as is, it is definitely more of a recruiting and fan- friendly advantage than a disadvantage. That cannot be said about a lot of mid-majors. |
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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 21, 2022 14:22:54 GMT -6
That arena when packed is an amazing college gameday experience.
This team gets back to winning games, we will see the attendance sky rocket.
I can tell you during the Sweet 16 season, the student section was maybe 100/200 kids regularly. We got the HLT and there was student from front row to the rafters. People will show up for winning teams.
The arena is 9 -10k for basketball *at least in some configurations, even if you got 5k in for games that would be raukus.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 21, 2022 14:33:30 GMT -6
We had 4K plus just this year for the home opener. Huge student turnout. (1,587) Crowd was great. Game was not.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Mar 21, 2022 15:19:50 GMT -6
We had 4K plus just this year for the home opener. Huge student turnout. (1,587) Crowd was great. Game was not. One of the biggest student turnouts every year is at the home opener. It was bigger this past season because of the PBJ hype. But their interest typically dwindles. That was the case even during some of the better Jeter years (not counting his first year because of the Sweet 16 carryover). I was not at the referenced game, so I would appreciate if you could explain how the crowd was great. Were all 1,587 there at least 15 minutes before the national anthem getting pepped up? Were they mostly in sync with chants throughout the game? Was this sustained even after the Panthers got hopelessly behind? Were they responding to upbeat music? Did the energy carry over to the non-students? I only watched the entire game on TV. I did not feel it, even at the start of the game, but it does not convey very well on the locally produced ESPN+ games. This discussion has already been started here. I think that is where it should continue. uwmfreak.proboards.com/thread/7899/attack-apathy |
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Post by PantherU on Mar 21, 2022 16:36:26 GMT -6
I appreciate the context. I hope going forward that the fan base has an open mind towards Coach Lundy and welcomes him to UWM and doesn't hold the wrong doings of Amanda Braun against him because she hired him. 100%. This is absolutely crucial for the future of the program. I find the black and white thinking that some on this message board engage in as troublesome and problematic. For example, some posters on this message board propagate the idea that Bud Haidet was the perfect athletic director here and he was without any faults and that Amanda Braun is evil and she has never done anything positive as the athletic director. Both are simply not true. Haidet was the athletic director here from 1990 to 2009. Haidet hired Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl as head coaches here, and for that he should be applauded for, but he also hired Ric Cobb and Rob Jeter as head coaches. At the time of Jeter's hire as the head coach, Jeter was an assistant coach without any head coaching experience and Haidet gave Jeter subsequent contract extensions without the results on the court to support the said contract extensions. Also, why didn't Haidet get a practice facility for basketball accomplished during his 19 years as the AD here? For example, from 2003 to 2006 the men's basketball team advanced to the NCAA tournament in 3 seasons out of 4 seasons including a Sweet Sixteen appearance in 2005. This time period presented a great opportunity to get a basketball practice facility fundraised and built, but Haidet didn't do so. I appreciate what Haidet did here as the AD and the hiring of Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl were tremendous hires, but there's also room for legitimate criticism of Haidet. Bud's failures as an AD are mostly due to his inability to capitalize on the Sweet 16 to raise money (development) and establish support that would have helped achieve sustained success. I mentioned in the other post the VCU Basketball Development Center - that was built when VCU capitalized on their Final Four run. Gonzaga capitalized on their 1999 Elite Eight by raising money to build their "New Kennel" arena. Butler put together a plan to completely redo Hinkle Fieldhouse after the Final Four and the place is almost unrecognizable outside of the arena (which also has nice upgrades). Schools that strike while the iron is hot benefit. VCU got out of the mid-major CAA and into the major Atlantic 10. Butler got out of the mid-major Horizon League and into the major Atlantic 10, then the high-major Big East. Gonzaga couldn't get out of the WCC - they didn't really want to - but instead got their increased standing to massively upgrade their basketball budget. Dan Monson left after the Elite Eight in 1999, but no one have been able to poach Mark Few from the Zags because they've been able to increase his pay and spend more on his coaching staff and basketball ops than most high-majors. As far Bud's hiring, Rob Jeter was maybe his second-worst head coaching hire in his 20 years for all sports and Rob Jeter was above average as a coach, he just didn't achieve at the level of expectations for the fan base. And his failures regarding Coach Jeter don't include the hiring, it was the contract with laughably easy benchmarks to earn automatic year extensions (as cactuspanther alluded to in an earlier post). Literally every coaching hire in other sports was varying levels of successful. Bud is the reason we have the second-most McCafferty Trophies after Butler. I would say it's probably his best skill set. The man could pick a coach, although Bruce Pearl was Bo Ryan's recommendation after he got a meeting with Bo at the 2001 Final Four (after Bo Ryan had gotten the Badgers job). Amanda Braun has made many errors as the AD here and appears to be a deeply flawed leader. The way she handled the Jeter firing was disgraceful, her alienation of prominent boosters was awful, and her hiring of Pat Baldwin proved to be disastrous and set the program back years. However, Braun has done some good as well. Braun secured the naming rights to the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena, got the practice facility for the basketball program finally built, and appears to have just hired a well respected and qualified head coach with 20 years of head coaching experience at the D1 and D2 levels who has an overall record of 433–189. It seems like if a poster mentions that Braun has done anything positive as the AD, some on this message board will brand this person as a shill for Braun or the athletic department. So when we're talking about people being branded as a shill - as you dealt with last week - it's because no one is buying this "AB can do the job well" story. A lot of the people on this board are in agreement with the vocal ones that AB needs to go, they're just tired of hearing it because we've been talking about it off and on for 7 years. And since no one is buying the story, people are going to look at new members talking her up in any way as suspicious. There's never going to be a point where this board is going to change its mind and think that AB is good and it's weird to a lot of us that someone signs up for an account and roughly half of their posts are either "hey AB isn't that bad" or a deflection of criticism toward her. I'm not trying to pin you or anyone else as a propagandist, and I really don't think that's been your intent here. It's just a lot easier to get an idea of what a poster's general vibe is when they've got 30 posts. Sure, we've had propagandists on the board before, but at this point I don't think it's relevant whether or not someone is shilling for the AD. Whether they're vocal about it or not, the vast majority of this board would breathe a big sigh of relief if AB was removed from her position. And you haven't tried to sabotage me personally like the "dakdelsur" poster who popped up in 2016, the person who turned out to be coming from AB's inner circle. You're fine by me. I'm happy you're here. I like having smart people around who disagree with me. If you want to prop up Amanda Braun's job as AD, moving downtown isn't a good look because literally everyone knew that needed to happen in spring 2013. I was at her introductory press conference and I heard more than one person mention to her that we need to get back downtown. It's not the practice facility, as I think I've adequately illustrated how she deserves very little credit for getting that done. It's the OHOW sponsorship. And you can say, "hey the OHOW Center is a little better than it would have been without the sponsorship." That's accurate. It's also accurate that if we still had the $25 fee students voted for (and I believe a basketball practice facility to be in the spirit of the original vote), the benefits of the OHOW sponsorship would be a lot smaller compared to the $18 per year from each student. But that OHOW sponsorship ain't nothing. It's a far cry better than anything Koonce did. When I was on the search and screen committee that recommended him for AD, he talked repeatedly about how Charles Woodson and other Packers would be down here bringing star power to home games, or how he was gonna get Johnsonville Brats and all these other corporate sponsorships. Johnsonville gave us $15k. Big woop. The OHOW corporate sponsorship is a real win, and as far as I can see that's a feather for AB's cap. So I would lead with that if you're looking to convince people she doesn't need to go. Just don't expect a lot of buyers on this message board, even though only a few are vocal in their opposition to her. Many are just tired of the conversation. In my experience, life is lived in the grays and not in the black and white. The notion that everything that Haidet did as the AD was great and everything that Braun has done as the AD is horrible is disingenuous and frankly not true. My hope is that the fanbase, the students, the alumni and the community can have an open mind towards Coach Lundy and welcome him to UWM. Based on Coach Lundy's track record of success as a head coach, it appears that UWM is in a position to be a winner once again. I don't think there's a single person who doesn't want Lundy to succeed. Well, one may be Tom Hecker, I love the guy but he is a world champion at holding grudges. And the second AB is gone, he'd be introducing himself to Lundy and letting him know it wasn't personal. When judging AD's, you've got to judge them on the balance of everything they've done. We ousted George Koonce because he was incompetent and his plan for men's basketball would have destroyed the program for a generation, but he did successfully lobby for the $25 segregated fee. Like you say, we're in the grays and no one is all light or all dark. Just saying, AB's got blackout curtains. There ain't a lot of light getting through. I still think the best place for Milwaukee games would be a filled Mecca. Place is awesome for hoops and if the team is good the fans will come back out pretty quickly. I was at a high school game with a couple 1000 people at it a few weeks ago. There are lots of hoops fans in the area, Lundy winning some games early next year will bring more and more fans out. This hits the nail on the head. It's the best venue for us, even though capacity is probably double what it should be for us. |
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Post by BBFran on Mar 21, 2022 17:13:18 GMT -6
A half-filled or 33%-filled or quarter-filled Arena is better than the Klotsche. Let's hope that we can get back to that on a semi-regular basis in the not-too-distant future, but it will take some work (see the "Attack Apathy" thread for ideas). You know what this administration would call a quarter-filled Arena? 10,000 people!! |
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Post by jmartin on Mar 21, 2022 18:55:40 GMT -6
I appreciate the context. I hope going forward that the fan base has an open mind towards Coach Lundy and welcomes him to UWM and doesn't hold the wrong doings of Amanda Braun against him because she hired him. 100%. This is absolutely crucial for the future of the program. I find the black and white thinking that some on this message board engage in as troublesome and problematic. For example, some posters on this message board propagate the idea that Bud Haidet was the perfect athletic director here and he was without any faults and that Amanda Braun is evil and she has never done anything positive as the athletic director. Both are simply not true. Haidet was the athletic director here from 1990 to 2009. Haidet hired Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl as head coaches here, and for that he should be applauded for, but he also hired Ric Cobb and Rob Jeter as head coaches. At the time of Jeter's hire as the head coach, Jeter was an assistant coach without any head coaching experience and Haidet gave Jeter subsequent contract extensions without the results on the court to support the said contract extensions. Also, why didn't Haidet get a practice facility for basketball accomplished during his 19 years as the AD here? For example, from 2003 to 2006 the men's basketball team advanced to the NCAA tournament in 3 seasons out of 4 seasons including a Sweet Sixteen appearance in 2005. This time period presented a great opportunity to get a basketball practice facility fundraised and built, but Haidet didn't do so. I appreciate what Haidet did here as the AD and the hiring of Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl were tremendous hires, but there's also room for legitimate criticism of Haidet. Bud's failures as an AD are mostly due to his inability to capitalize on the Sweet 16 to raise money (development) and establish support that would have helped achieve sustained success. I mentioned in the other post the VCU Basketball Development Center - that was built when VCU capitalized on their Final Four run. Gonzaga capitalized on their 1999 Elite Eight by raising money to build their "New Kennel" arena. Butler put together a plan to completely redo Hinkle Fieldhouse after the Final Four and the place is almost unrecognizable outside of the arena (which also has nice upgrades). Schools that strike while the iron is hot benefit. VCU got out of the mid-major CAA and into the major Atlantic 10. Butler got out of the mid-major Horizon League and into the major Atlantic 10, then the high-major Big East. Gonzaga couldn't get out of the WCC - they didn't really want to - but instead got their increased standing to massively upgrade their basketball budget. Dan Monson left after the Elite Eight in 1999, but no one have been able to poach Mark Few from the Zags because they've been able to increase his pay and spend more on his coaching staff and basketball ops than most high-majors. As far Bud's hiring, Rob Jeter was maybe his second-worst head coaching hire in his 20 years for all sports and Rob Jeter was above average as a coach, he just didn't achieve at the level of expectations for the fan base. And his failures regarding Coach Jeter don't include the hiring, it was the contract with laughably easy benchmarks to earn automatic year extensions (as cactuspanther alluded to in an earlier post). Literally every coaching hire in other sports was varying levels of successful. Bud is the reason we have the second-most McCafferty Trophies after Butler. I would say it's probably his best skill set. The man could pick a coach, although Bruce Pearl was Bo Ryan's recommendation after he got a meeting with Bo at the 2001 Final Four (after Bo Ryan had gotten the Badgers job). Amanda Braun has made many errors as the AD here and appears to be a deeply flawed leader. The way she handled the Jeter firing was disgraceful, her alienation of prominent boosters was awful, and her hiring of Pat Baldwin proved to be disastrous and set the program back years. However, Braun has done some good as well. Braun secured the naming rights to the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena, got the practice facility for the basketball program finally built, and appears to have just hired a well respected and qualified head coach with 20 years of head coaching experience at the D1 and D2 levels who has an overall record of 433–189. It seems like if a poster mentions that Braun has done anything positive as the AD, some on this message board will brand this person as a shill for Braun or the athletic department. So when we're talking about people being branded as a shill - as you dealt with last week - it's because no one is buying this "AB can do the job well" story. A lot of the people on this board are in agreement with the vocal ones that AB needs to go, they're just tired of hearing it because we've been talking about it off and on for 7 years. And since no one is buying the story, people are going to look at new members talking her up in any way as suspicious. There's never going to be a point where this board is going to change its mind and think that AB is good and it's weird to a lot of us that someone signs up for an account and roughly half of their posts are either "hey AB isn't that bad" or a deflection of criticism toward her. I'm not trying to pin you or anyone else as a propagandist, and I really don't think that's been your intent here. It's just a lot easier to get an idea of what a poster's general vibe is when they've got 30 posts. Sure, we've had propagandists on the board before, but at this point I don't think it's relevant whether or not someone is shilling for the AD. Whether they're vocal about it or not, the vast majority of this board would breathe a big sigh of relief if AB was removed from her position. And you haven't tried to sabotage me personally like the "dakdelsur" poster who popped up in 2016, the person who turned out to be coming from AB's inner circle. You're fine by me. I'm happy you're here. I like having smart people around who disagree with me. If you want to prop up Amanda Braun's job as AD, moving downtown isn't a good look because literally everyone knew that needed to happen in spring 2013. I was at her introductory press conference and I heard more than one person mention to her that we need to get back downtown. It's not the practice facility, as I think I've adequately illustrated how she deserves very little credit for getting that done. It's the OHOW sponsorship. And you can say, "hey the OHOW Center is a little better than it would have been without the sponsorship." That's accurate. It's also accurate that if we still had the $25 fee students voted for (and I believe a basketball practice facility to be in the spirit of the original vote), the benefits of the OHOW sponsorship would be a lot smaller compared to the $18 per year from each student. But that OHOW sponsorship ain't nothing. It's a far cry better than anything Koonce did. When I was on the search and screen committee that recommended him for AD, he talked repeatedly about how Charles Woodson and other Packers would be down here bringing star power to home games, or how he was gonna get Johnsonville Brats and all these other corporate sponsorships. Johnsonville gave us $15k. Big woop. The OHOW corporate sponsorship is a real win, and as far as I can see that's a feather for AB's cap. So I would lead with that if you're looking to convince people she doesn't need to go. Just don't expect a lot of buyers on this message board, even though only a few are vocal in their opposition to her. Many are just tired of the conversation. In my experience, life is lived in the grays and not in the black and white. The notion that everything that Haidet did as the AD was great and everything that Braun has done as the AD is horrible is disingenuous and frankly not true. My hope is that the fanbase, the students, the alumni and the community can have an open mind towards Coach Lundy and welcome him to UWM. Based on Coach Lundy's track record of success as a head coach, it appears that UWM is in a position to be a winner once again. I don't think there's a single person who doesn't want Lundy to succeed. Well, one may be Tom Hecker, I love the guy but he is a world champion at holding grudges. And the second AB is gone, he'd be introducing himself to Lundy and letting him know it wasn't personal. When judging AD's, you've got to judge them on the balance of everything they've done. We ousted George Koonce because he was incompetent and his plan for men's basketball would have destroyed the program for a generation, but he did successfully lobby for the $25 segregated fee. Like you say, we're in the grays and no one is all light or all dark. Just saying, AB's got blackout curtains. There ain't a lot of light getting through. I still think the best place for Milwaukee games would be a filled Mecca. Place is awesome for hoops and if the team is good the fans will come back out pretty quickly. I was at a high school game with a couple 1000 people at it a few weeks ago. There are lots of hoops fans in the area, Lundy winning some games early next year will bring more and more fans out. This hits the nail on the head. It's the best venue for us, even though capacity is probably double what it should be for us. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I hope this is the last time that I'm writing about Amanda Braun. To be clear I do believe that Braun is a deeply flawed AD who has made significant mistakes, but I also believe she has had some positive accomplishments as well. My intention is not to be an advocate for Braun, I truly hope this is the last time that I'm writing about her, but I don't think Braun is the evil caricature that some make her out to be. I'm excited about the hiring of Coach Lundy, and I believe that the first time in many years that the program is prime to be a winner once again. It's so refreshing to have hired a head coach with prior head coaching experience of success at the collegiate level. |
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Post by PantherU on Mar 21, 2022 19:00:29 GMT -6
I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I hope this is the last time that I'm writing about Amanda Braun. To be clear I do believe that Braun is a deeply flawed AD who has made significant mistakes, but I also believe she has had some positive accomplishments as well. My intention is not to be an advocate for Braun, I truly hope this is the last time that I'm writing about her, but I don't think Braun is the evil caricature that some make her out to be. I'm excited about the hiring of Coach Lundy, and I believe that the first time in many years that the program is prime to be a winner once again. It's so refreshing to have hired a head coach with prior head coaching experience of success at the collegiate level. Well, we've all got to to our part to help Coach Lundy. First things first, we need to craft a plan to attack the apathy that has plagued this campus forever. We can take our ideas to Adam Schemm in athletics, get his thoughts and take it to the next step after that. Apathy is a villain we can defeat. |
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Post by adamschemm on Mar 21, 2022 20:27:28 GMT -6
I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I hope this is the last time that I'm writing about Amanda Braun. To be clear I do believe that Braun is a deeply flawed AD who has made significant mistakes, but I also believe she has had some positive accomplishments as well. My intention is not to be an advocate for Braun, I truly hope this is the last time that I'm writing about her, but I don't think Braun is the evil caricature that some make her out to be. I'm excited about the hiring of Coach Lundy, and I believe that the first time in many years that the program is prime to be a winner once again. It's so refreshing to have hired a head coach with prior head coaching experience of success at the collegiate level. Well, we've all got to to our part to help Coach Lundy. First things first, we need to craft a plan to attack the apathy that has plagued this campus forever. We can take our ideas to Adam Schemm in athletics, get his thoughts and take it to the next step after that. Apathy is a villain we can defeat. I'm in. Let me know when you want to talk. Always open to ideas and feedback. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 8:25:38 GMT -6
Jimmy for (at least some position within the) AD. I've been saying it for a while, and it may sound crazy. Never know though... With a new AD in 2024 or 2042.. anything can happen.
Whether AD or some other role though, ask yourself: "what kind of person would be great to work in Milwaukee Athletics (and directly attack The Apathy)"?
The question answers itself- someone like Black PantherU. You cannot teach people to be passionate about their organization.
Awesome to see Schemm is on board with helping to facilitate active change. I hope others in the AD realize, while the other programs are very important (God Bless them), the men's basketball team is the public facing one and the one that kids are going to hear about on the news and ESPN and through their friends so that maybe, just maybe they say "I'm applying to Milwaukee".
And we recover some of the 1/5th loss of our enrollment.
A good quote I just heard by Jason Lee on the Nine Club yesterday, "If you value something, it just does not escape". Very, very true.
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Post by steveisback on Mar 22, 2022 9:08:27 GMT -6
Preaching to the choir at least the people on this board and some in the Athletic Dept like Adam. Adam you are great and beacon of hope. Was listening to Chicago sports talk radio, and they were literally quoting exact figures at some schools including Loyola on how for whatever reason, student enrollment either jumped or tanked based on sports success particularly mens basketball. Having fun IS part of the deal, not for all students but the sports thing is undeniable. It freaking has a big impact on enrollment. Just look at us back when....It is so inconceivable the wonks like Mone are in their ivory tower of academia and self congratulatory cronyism. Doing our school a disservice through neglect and lost opportunity costs , ie additional enrollment would BOLSTER academics....Hello... How can something so obvious be so elusive. I dont think Mone is necessarilly a stupid man but certainly blind in this area
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Mar 22, 2022 9:41:43 GMT -6
I dont think Mone is necessarily a stupid man  |
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Post by jmartin on Mar 22, 2022 15:23:45 GMT -6
I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I hope this is the last time that I'm writing about Amanda Braun. To be clear I do believe that Braun is a deeply flawed AD who has made significant mistakes, but I also believe she has had some positive accomplishments as well. My intention is not to be an advocate for Braun, I truly hope this is the last time that I'm writing about her, but I don't think Braun is the evil caricature that some make her out to be. I'm excited about the hiring of Coach Lundy, and I believe that the first time in many years that the program is prime to be a winner once again. It's so refreshing to have hired a head coach with prior head coaching experience of success at the collegiate level. Well, we've all got to to our part to help Coach Lundy. First things first, we need to craft a plan to attack the apathy that has plagued this campus forever. We can take our ideas to Adam Schemm in athletics, get his thoughts and take it to the next step after that. Apathy is a villain we can defeat. I’ll post some suggestions later this week to increase student attendance. I believe that ending apathy towards the program starts with the students. I think the fuel to increase attendance and reduce apathy is winning. The past 6 consecutive losing seasons certainly hasn’t helped matters. The hiring of Coach Lundy is very promising and his impressive track record of success as a collegiate head coach combined with his reputation in the coaching community is very encouraging. |
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Post by PantherU on Mar 22, 2022 15:45:24 GMT -6
Jimmy for (at least some position within the) AD. I've been saying it for a while, and it may sound crazy. Never know though... With a new AD in 2024 or 2042.. anything can happen. Whether AD or some other role though, ask yourself: "what kind of person would be great to work in Milwaukee Athletics (and directly attack The Apathy)"? The question answers itself- someone like Black PantherU. You cannot teach people to be passionate about their organization. Awesome to see Schemm is on board with helping to facilitate active change. I hope others in the AD realize, while the other programs are very important (God Bless them), the men's basketball team is the public facing one and the one that kids are going to hear about on the news and ESPN and through their friends so that maybe, just maybe they say "I'm applying to Milwaukee". And we recover some of the 1/5th loss of our enrollment. A good quote I just heard by Jason Lee on the Nine Club yesterday, "If you value something, it just does not escape". Very, very true. Thank you for your kind words. Knowing Adam is in the department during this transition alleviates a lot of my concerns. He gets it, he's always got it. He's very capable and unlike me, he pisses off and alienates exactly no one. As far as me working there, I've shot myself in the foot so many times it'd be a miracle if I could even figuratively stand up. No Division I athletic department, especially this one, would be able to overlook my history of hard opinions being voiced through sometimes crass language. There's just no way. I would love to work there if I was making enough to support myself, but I doubt that's even possible for me at this point. |
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