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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Feb 10, 2022 21:05:52 GMT -6
This is so good, it could almost be a UWM story. It leaves me to wonder if UIC's Chancellor can pour coffee?  |
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Post by Cactus Panther on Feb 10, 2022 21:22:12 GMT -6
UIC is the villain here. Like I said previously in this thread, good riddance. Regarding the unfairness to UIC student athletes, it is unfortunate but happens all of the time. UIC administration could have manned up and either admitted it's greed or stayed in the HL for another year.
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Post by Big D on Feb 10, 2022 21:40:17 GMT -6
UIC is the villain here. Like I said previously in this thread, good riddance. Regarding the unfairness to UIC student athletes, it is unfortunate but happens all of the time. UIC administration could have manned up and either admitted it's greed or stayed in the HL for another year. 100% of the fans on this board, and perhaps 100% of non-UIC fans throughout the league…if their team had an invite and they had a choice between 6 months and 1.5 years…guess which they’re taking? Anyone saying they’d wait a year and a half is lying. |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Feb 10, 2022 22:14:40 GMT -6
UIC is the villain here. Like I said previously in this thread, good riddance. Regarding the unfairness to UIC student athletes, it is unfortunate but happens all of the time. UIC administration could have manned up and either admitted it's greed or stayed in the HL for another year. 100% of the fans on this board, and perhaps 100% of non-UIC fans throughout the league…if their team had an invite and they had a choice between 6 months and 1.5 years…guess which they’re taking? Anyone saying they’d wait a year and a half is lying. Agreed. But the issue here is not that, but that UIC is lying to their own student-athletes, fans, the media, and anyone who will listen. |
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Post by Big D on Feb 10, 2022 22:20:27 GMT -6
100% of the fans on this board, and perhaps 100% of non-UIC fans throughout the league…if their team had an invite and they had a choice between 6 months and 1.5 years…guess which they’re taking? Anyone saying they’d wait a year and a half is lying. Agreed. But the issue here is not that, but that UIC is lying to their own student-athletes, fans, the media, and anyone who will listen. What are they lying about? The knew the ban was a possibility…hence the ask for a waiver. The HL has the control here. They are choosing to enforce the ban and hurt the athletes. Well within the laws to do so…no argument there. But it cannot be denied that the HL has chosen to hurt the kids given that the bylaws permit them to waive the ban. |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Feb 10, 2022 22:32:39 GMT -6
Agreed. But the issue here is not that, but that UIC is lying to their own student-athletes, fans, the media, and anyone who will listen. What are they lying about? The knew the ban was a possibility…hence the ask for a waiver. The HL has the control here. Did you not read the Gregg Doyel article linked above? He answers your question, in detail. UIC not only knowingly broke this conference's 1 year notice rule, which subjected all their athletes to this... UIC is literally the school that proposed and voted for said rule after Loyola got the Valley invite over them and they got all butthurt about it! LOLOLOLOL. If that's not the best self-own in college athletics history, I don't know what is! www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2022/02/10/illinois-chicago-breaks-rules-horizon-league-uic-basketball/6740655001/ |
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Post by Big D on Feb 10, 2022 23:12:06 GMT -6
What are they lying about? The knew the ban was a possibility…hence the ask for a waiver. The HL has the control here. Did you not read the Gregg Doyel article linked above? He answers your question, in detail. UIC not only knowingly broke this conference's 1 year notice rule, which subjected all their athletes to this... UIC is literally the school that proposed and voted for said rule after Loyola got the Valley invite over them and they got all butthurt about it! LOLOLOLOL. If that's not the best self-own in college athletics history, I don't know what is! www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2022/02/10/illinois-chicago-breaks-rules-horizon-league-uic-basketball/6740655001/Of course I read it, and he and you are missing the point. The only question I have for you is “Does the Horizon have the ability to enforce/waive the ban?” If the answer is “yes”, then the HL has chosen to hurt the kids…bottom line. UIC’s timing is irrelevant. UIC proposing the bylaw is irrelevant. UIC voting for a Butler ban is irrelevant. Like I said, the HL is not wrong in applying the ban. It’s their choice but that choice ends up hurting kids. So they should be taking the heat. Other HL fans are trying to shift the blame…maybe to help you feel better about what your own university leaders are doing. The HL has the ability to reverse everything tomorrow. That tells you everything you need to know. Saying UIC is lying is a bit too much here. Loyola left late last year. A spot opened up. We acted fast. We are not going to wait 1.5 years…nobody would. So we have been transparent…keeping the HL informed throughout the process. It sounds like UIC was under the impression that, because of the transparency, that there would be a cordial split. Instead, what most people would seem to prefer is that UIC either wait 1.5 years (not happening) or try to keep a backroom deal secret for 5-6 months and then surprise the HL after spring season so we sneak around any bans. Yeah that would make HL fans happy. If you’re being honest, is being up front months in advance preferable over surprising you last minute for truly selfish reasons (to play postseason)? We’re literally being punished for trying to give the HL a heads up and giving them a jump start on expansion. |
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Feb 11, 2022 1:11:10 GMT -6
This whole argument is dumb. The Indy Star piece proves it so.
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Post by Big D on Feb 11, 2022 8:35:24 GMT -6
Saying UIC is lying is a bit too much here. Loyola left late last year. A spot opened up. We acted fast. We are not going to wait 1.5 years…nobody would. So we have been transparent…keeping the HL informed throughout the process. It sounds like UIC was under the impression that, because of the transparency, that there would be a cordial split. Instead, what most people would seem to prefer is that UIC either wait 1.5 years (not happening) or try to keep a backroom deal secret for 5-6 months and then surprise the HL after spring season so we sneak around any bans. Yeah that would make HL fans happy. If you’re being honest, is being up front months in advance preferable over surprising you last minute for truly selfish reasons (to play postseason)? We’re literally being punished for trying to give the HL a heads up and giving them a jump start on expansion. That is all utter BS. Loyola is leaving the MVC after this season and is being replaced by BELMONT. The MVC had no dire need to add you next season. Murray State and UIC joining is an expansion, not a replacement in that conference. The MVC didn't give you a "join next year or you aren't getting invited mandate." You are choosing to leave the HL a year early because you want to leave the HL a year early. I don't blame you for wanting to get out of the HL but don't try to make the argument that this is about transparency. No one is buying that load of horse sh*t. The reason the bylaws exist is to make conference and individual school scheduling easier during the transition of losing a member. By giving the conference a whole year to prepare for your departure it allows us to re-adjust how many conference games will be played in each sport and then each school has time to find suitable OOC games to add. Anyone that has followed HL basketball for any period of time know how hard it is to find decent OOC games for their team. Everyone needs to find 2 more next year because you want to get a jump start on joining the MVC. You are screwing over every sport for every school next year by making them re-start their scheduling process. Replacement vs expansion team? What does it matter? All I know is the MVC really wants to be in Chicago and wants to replace a team from Chicago that is leaving. We are a geographic replacement. If Loyola is still there, UIC is still in the HL. If the MVC didn’t want to add us for 22-23, then they wouldn’t have. It seems to me we realistically gave the HL as much notice as we could, choosing to be transparent vs keeping it a secret until a month before we left. Again, people keep trying to make the argument about whether the ban is proper. It is, legally. Ban away. I accept it. But with that DECISION, the HL is going to get backlash, deservedly so, because the only ones truly hurt by the DECISION are the athletes. The Horizon is choosing to hurt the athletes. |
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Post by Big D on Feb 11, 2022 9:29:42 GMT -6
Again, people keep trying to make the argument about whether the ban is proper. It is, legally. Ban away. I accept it. But with that DECISION, the HL is going to get backlash, deservedly so, because the only ones truly hurt by the DECISION are the athletes. The Horizon is choosing to hurt the athletes. BS. The HL is choosing to enforce the bylaws the entire conference agreed upon. UIC is hurting their own athletes by choosing to not abiding by those bylaws. If your AD cared about those athletes then he would announce that UIC will live up to their commitment to the HL and stay through 22/23 so they can participate in post season play this year and next year. The MVC invite isn't going to go away. They want the Chicago market and would wait 1 year in order for you to live up to your obligations to the HL. Your AD knows this. He just doesn't give a sh*t about your athletes and thinks he can spin this and blame the HL when he could have easily prevented this and could still prevent it now if he reverses course. He isn't going to do that because he cares more about the increased revenue UIC is going to get by being in the MVC next year than he does about his current athletes. Gonna have to agree to disagree. Right now, the Horizon is the only entity that can help or hurt athletes. It’s in the bylaws. It is choosing to hurt. The UIC notice is no longer an issue. Where you’re wrong is saying UIC can’t spin this. They very much can and are because the bylaw allows for that spin to occur. It allows UIC to leave early and blame someone else…whether genuine or not (I certainly don’t know anyone in charge), it’s what they have to do to get what they want as early as possible without looking like they are hurting their own athletes. |
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Post by PantherU on Feb 11, 2022 9:44:21 GMT -6
Of course I read it, and he and you are missing the point. The only question I have for you is “Does the Horizon have the ability to enforce/waive the ban?” If the answer is “yes”, then the HL has chosen to hurt the kids…bottom line. No. Petty? Sure. But no. UIC had the opportunity to wait it out and they chose not to. Look, man, you're just backing your school. I get that. But be like us, and recognize your administrators f***ed up.  |
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Feb 11, 2022 10:03:32 GMT -6
UIC also did this to their student athletes.
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Post by Big D on Feb 11, 2022 10:22:24 GMT -6
Of course I read it, and he and you are missing the point. The only question I have for you is “Does the Horizon have the ability to enforce/waive the ban?” If the answer is “yes”, then the HL has chosen to hurt the kids…bottom line. No. Petty? Sure. But no. UIC had the opportunity to wait it out and they chose not to. Look, man, you're just backing your school. I get that. But be like us, and recognize your administrators f***ed up. And you’re backing your school against someone leaving the HL. I get that too. I don’t disagree with what you said. I recognize it starts with UIC. We didn’t give the 1 year. So the ban is appropriate. But it hurts the kids. If UIC proposed this change 10 years ago, maybe one of the other 10 presidents should’ve had the brains to strike the optional language. Given that language in there, UIC has to use it to their advantage. Otherwise they look like they’re hurting their own athletes, which is not an option. C’mon, you have to recognize that they have to do this. |
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Post by TBone on Feb 11, 2022 11:34:37 GMT -6
I don’t disagree with what you said. I recognize it starts with UIC. We didn’t give the 1 year. So the ban is appropriate. But it hurts the kids. If UIC proposed this change 10 years ago, maybe one of the other 10 presidents should’ve had the brains to strike the optional language. Given that language in there, UIC has to use it to their advantage. Otherwise they look like they’re hurting their own athletes, which is not an option. C’mon, you have to recognize that they have to do this. It most definitely does hurt the kids, and its hugely unfortunate for these kids to make a commitment to the university and potentially not get to participate in a postseason tournament. Whether the Horizon League can or cannot give UIC a pass on this one I don't know. What I do know is that if they could, and did give UIC a pass, all future exits short of the year required would use this as precedence for not having penalties applied to the exiting school. If you're a parent or even a dog owner, you know how inconsistent discipline of rule breaking ends. The bylaw was instituted to protect the conference and its members. It has nothing to do with brains or forethought of those that voted the bylaw into place - that kids may potentially be hurt in this scenario. If kids are being hurt, and they most certainly are in this case, it's because a law was broken by a university and not because a conference chose to apply the discipline in the conference bylaws to said school for breaking the rules. |
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Post by davedome on Feb 11, 2022 12:30:03 GMT -6
I would sacrifice 1 season of conference tournament participation to leave the Horizon, for the MVC early. I don't see what the big deal is all about. It was a good decision. 1 or 2 weeks of bad PR is a good trade. I'm sorry for the athletes but the underclassmen there are now in a better place.
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