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Post by Cactus Panther on Jan 11, 2022 14:27:11 GMT -6
Steve, I like your post except the hindsight sentence toward the end. For those of us who believe in an afterlife, don't we all aspire to go to heaven eventually rather than stay in purgatory forever?
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Post by steveisback on Jan 11, 2022 14:31:19 GMT -6
Good point ....did not want to insinuate that Lovie or Rob wont go to heaven down the line or any of us either. Problem is with us we are in hell right now so hoping a way out.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Jan 11, 2022 14:45:42 GMT -6
No problem Steve. By the way, my afterlife comment was not intended to be literal. It was intended as a metaphor.
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Post by steveisback on Jan 11, 2022 14:52:43 GMT -6
understood....as was my comment that resulted in your comment!!! all is cool...some may say our hell is of our own making....well, no denying....firing Jeter resulted in worse results and we have what we have....there is proof of that but I would also propose there is proof not quite as limited or selective as the 2016 to now window that the descent started in 2006 when we played it safe and did not strive to go big. Whose fault? Not Jeters but Haidet and Santiago for the hire which missed the opportunity and frittered a lot of years away. Maybe we could have mirrored Butler, or even Loyola or Valpo and moved up to a better conference. All that rot started way back and culminated with the 2016 firing debacle . Now good luck elevating to a better conference we were left behind and spent too long fiddling with Jeter IMO. I guess I am a dwindling breed ...oh wait...I actually believer Jeter was better than Baldwin. That is a low bar indeed
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Post by steveisback on Jan 11, 2022 14:59:38 GMT -6
One other thought. Yes, things went south fast after 2016 but attendance was gradually and steadily
declining all along. Obviously not all Jeters fault ie, Geiger, the back to Klotsche debacle which might not have happened with overall better results on court and in Public relations/Marketing - I personally was told a number of season ticket holders that the academic ban was the final straw. Not disputing it got much worse post Jeter , there is proof of that....combination of things of which he was a part of the problem and along with the adminnistration and various AD's held us back, frittered away a golden opportunity and now we are a moribund program in a moribund conference. Hingsight is 20/20 both in firing Jeter and hiring him in the first place
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 11, 2022 15:18:55 GMT -6
Steve, I like your post except the hindsight sentence toward the end. For those of us who believe in an afterlife, don't we all aspire to go to heaven eventually rather than stay in purgatory forever? At some point, almost all people realize that if something is never going to happen, thanks to a preponderance of the evidence (like Rob Jeter proving he could never "take us to heaven" after 11 years), the risk of a change is absolutely better off. That's why the majority of MKE fans eventually wanted Saint Rob gone, even if a minority of his vocal backers still can't admit that - and still try to revise the history of his tenure and firing. |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 11, 2022 15:21:44 GMT -6
And I say that as someone who thinks Amanda Braun is one of the most inept and incompetent AD's in all of D1.
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Post by steveisback on Jan 11, 2022 15:32:49 GMT -6
amen - also the majority realize that things indeed got worse after he was replaced....we get it!!! Facts = Proof as far as that window or selective sample shows,
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Post by BBFran on Jan 11, 2022 16:30:24 GMT -6
Yeah, yeah, so say the tiny handful of guys with their cheeks burning about how it all turned out.  The truth is that the "majority of Milwaukee fans" left basically as soon as Jeter was fired because they liked him, liked his program, liked its competitiveness, liked the great recruiting, liked the inclusive atmosphere and all the great people surrounding the team, liked the obvious upward trajectory of the talent and results. But don't let me get in the way of you guys consoling each other with your fantasy history if it makes you feel better about being so spectacularly wrong.  But seriously, it doesn't matter now anyway. Bo grabbed the Wisconsin job he always wanted; Pearl skipped town for the look-the-other-way SEC; Jeter was let go because he had the best roster we had seen since 2006 ready to go, and that was just too dangerous. None of them will ever be back, and sadly, it will be difficult if not impossible to bring a coach as good as any of the three this way again. The job has been brutally devalued. The AD can sit back in her office watching the vanishing few fans who even give a damn any more still arguing about ten and fifteen years ago while the men's basketball program, month by month and year by year, becomes so irrelevant that no one in Chapman Hall is likely ever to care enough about it again to pay it any attention. |
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Post by davedome on Jan 12, 2022 14:14:57 GMT -6
I'm not sure the expectations were outlandish from fans or by people in this forum. We had a few starters back, with a projected lottery pick coming, in a weak conference. A winning record, good basketball, and a shot at the conference title in March, was realistic and not a pie in the sky dream. The teams I see at the top of our conference aren't better than some of the old Butler, Valpo and Cleveland State teams from the past. I saw those teams, close up, in person. Our program should be able to consistently compete in this conference, with who's left in it. The lineup, injuries and "suspensions" is another story altogether. I wish I had a press pass...... I would agree and only add "as good," as in these teams simply aren't as good as the teams you referenced ... along with the old Wright State, Detroit and Green Bay teams. Agreed. I remember the Keifer Sykes lead Phoenix teams and Ray McCallum at Detroit. It seemed like there were better players throughout the conference. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Jan 12, 2022 16:53:21 GMT -6
I just wanted to interject that I'm so happy that Fran made reference to the great support people that populated the Pavilion until AB arrived. Charlie, Kevin, LeVar, Brian, Leah, Eric, DeeDee, et al were all high-character individuals and extraordinarily helpful. We miss them!
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Post by PantherU on Jan 12, 2022 22:30:41 GMT -6
Paul, Saw your post above on the Bears and had to comment. I am a long time Bears fan just like a Panther fan. Glutton for punishment as also a ChiSox fan. Anyway, will not quit either regardless but so many similarities. The sad truth is that like The Bears our problem starts at the top and unlikely to change. Only chance is to "get lucky". Coach can make a huge difference and we saw it with Pearl. Unfortunately, short lived and unsustainable when there is institutionalized dysfunction. The situation with Lovie Smith reminds me so much of the Rob Jeter era. Long time coach with midlin results . Classy guy. Went to one Super Bowl and got a coach of the year award. Very up and down and unexciting and got stale. Overall underwhelming After awhile felt like NFL purgatory. Sound familiar? Bears fans wanted a change and were vocal and not necessarily a minority. If not a majority pretty close. Then the "careful what you wish for" thing came into play. People wanted more and did not assume it was the solution to live forever with Lovie because if there was a change, gee things could get worse. Yes, that is always a possibility. And it did. Mark Tressman, John Fox and Matt Nagy. Went from purgatory to hell. Just like here HL purgatory to HL hell Same with Jeter. Things got worse and I agree there is proof of that. Did not have to be but should have known based on who was making the decision, how it was handled and the hiring decisions. In hindsight was it wrong to ever move beyond Lovie Smith or Rob Jeter though things got worse in both situations post change. I guess never try to reach higher, be satisfied with purgatory because while you might reach heaven if you try there is also the risk of failure. Careful what you wish for indeed I missed the Steve King-sized paragraphs lol |
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Post by steveisback on Jan 13, 2022 11:02:15 GMT -6
Fran
Agree with all of this. Kind of harkens back to a previous post though that being how AB has set rigged the system in her favor by establishing the underwhelming metrics on mens basketball based on a baseline comparing to the horrible recent results as a baseline for so called improvement. She should be evaluated on what happened post 2016 to now, where we diverge is our evaluation of the program at time of exit. Did not realize Rob's program was so beloved and highly regarded by the masses....but I digress.....the administration is so clueless they will not look beyond her weak metrics, all the fluff and hyperbole...what a shame. We have this fantastic venue with our branding and do not capitalize. Administration misses the big picture behind McCafferty trophy standings, her so called recognition in the AD community . Huge missed opportunity to lift all boats including funding and enrollment with a succewssful mens basketabll program generating a higher profile for us.
Not all the internal self congratulations
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Post by steveisback on Jan 13, 2022 11:09:48 GMT -6
dang, wrong thread again replied to....this was intended to add to your post on mens basketball and Brauns failure
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The truth is that the "majority of Milwaukee fans" left basically as soon as Jeter was fired because they liked him, liked his program, liked its competitiveness, liked the great recruiting, liked the inclusive atmosphere and all the great people surrounding the team, liked the obvious upward trajectory of the talent and results. But don't let me get in the way of you guys consoling each other with your fantasy history if it makes you feel better about being so spectacularly wrong. 
