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Post by PantherNation on Nov 29, 2021 20:46:08 GMT -6
After having slept on yesterday's loss, I'm thoroughly convinced that any competent administration would have fired Baldwin this morning after such a loss. Already a lame duck, there is simply nothing to be lost by cutting him loose now, as opposed to later. It could be argued that PBJ has already regressed markedly by being here, but I never bought the hype from the beginning. You can't tell me that the program would be any worse off by, for example, bringing in Chris Hill on an interim basis to ride this season out. We can't get any worse than where we currently are. However, I have no delusions that Snagglepuss would actually do it. She wouldn’t do it because that’s a terrible idea. Even she’s smart enough to know that. |
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Nov 29, 2021 20:50:57 GMT -6
After having slept on yesterday's loss, I'm thoroughly convinced that any competent administration would have fired Baldwin this morning after such a loss. Already a lame duck, there is simply nothing to be lost by cutting him loose now, as opposed to later. It could be argued that PBJ has already regressed markedly by being here, but I never bought the hype from the beginning. You can't tell me that the program would be any worse off by, for example, bringing in Chris Hill on an interim basis to ride this season out. We can't get any worse than where we currently are. However, I have no delusions that Snagglepuss would actually do it. She wouldn’t do it because that’s a terrible idea. Even she’s smart enough to know that. Oh yeah? Why? You're always quick to critique, but never present any alternatives. So, f*** your comment. |
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Post by BBFran on Nov 29, 2021 23:05:24 GMT -6
I assume she’s going to try to ride out the possibility that the HL is just so bad (and it’s making one hell of a case so far) that PBJ still just might be enough to push the team to a lightning in a bottle HLT run and a tournament bid. I personally think the kid is a tremendous talent. I just don’t know if he’s good enough to carry what so far has proven in every way (when he’s not playing) to be a worse team than last year’s 10-12 model. We have no point guard/s who approach Tejon’s ability. Our “three headed monster” at center only terrifies the rest of the team. Collectively they aren’t as good as Amir Allen was. Gholston and Thomas are solid mid major players at best. That’s not a knock on them, but they aren’t good enough to elevate the rest of this team either. This is what years of poor recruiting and endless roster churn do.
But of course fundamentally the problem is that, mediocre as our talent is, the coaching isn’t even that, as it has proved incessantly for four plus seasons.
Which makes me wonder what the end game is. Even if the team somehow makes the tourney (and obviously loses its game there), what’s next? PBJ gone. Josh gone. If Gholston has any opportunities elsewhere, he’s likely gone too. There will be no recruiting halo. No kid with better options is going to be fooled into thinking this season (if it ends well) is anything more than a one-off. No fans will be either. I don’t get it.
So to follow on to your point SOB, I’ll say it. Personally I think the program would be better off if PBS simply resigned and I think PBJ, given his production so far and increasingly worrisome injury proclivity, would be better off simply to hang it up, heal up and get ready for the NBA draft. I think there’s a significant chance he can only hurt his draft status at this point by playing in this failed program. And finally, of course, I think the University administration, even if it can’t pull the trigger for whatever reasons on getting a competent AD, should take the hiring of a new basketball coach for our only possible revenue program out of our current AD’s hands entirely lest she fumble the ball just as spectacularly again.
Of course, none of this will happen, and in March we’ll all be saying “Good God, now what!?”
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Post by parkerj on Nov 29, 2021 23:26:47 GMT -6
And finally, of course, I think the University administration, even if it can’t pull the trigger for whatever reasons on getting a competent AD, should take the hiring of a new basketball coach for our only possible revenue program out of our current AD’s hands entirely lest she fumble the ball just as spectacularly again. Out of curiosity, are we all in agreement that the rumor that she wanted Otzelberger and got overruled was true? Because I've definitely come around to the idea that the program would've been far better off if we'd hired him. I wrote off a lot of what he did at SDSU because he was handed Mike Daum, but the guys he recruited continued to run the Summit even after the best one followed him. I don't think he was particularly deserving of the promotion based on what he did at UNLV, but he was at least on par with Marvin Menzies (who was a damn good mid-major coach at New Mexico State) Now the team he cobbled together at Iowa State has 4 more wins than Steve Prohm (another extremely successful mid-major coach) had all last year. |
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Post by PantherNation on Nov 29, 2021 23:55:43 GMT -6
She wouldn’t do it because that’s a terrible idea. Even she’s smart enough to know that. Oh yeah? Why? You're always quick to critique, but never present any alternatives. So, f*** your comment. Because of a certain player on our team who is going to be in the NBA, regardless of you thinking he’s not that good because he never won a HS state championship. It’s obvious that we’re going to struggle all season, likely due to poor coaching, but that player has gotten us a lot of press and created a buzz we haven’t had since 2014 (right before that buzz was quickly destroyed by a postseason ban). Of course, we totally f’d it up. But getting rid of the coach and a player who will likely have a successful career in the NBA while carrying along with him our university’s name for the first time ever is not exactly the best move in my opinion. Especially after just 6 games (4 in which he’s played in). Let’s let the kid get a few games under his belt and enjoy what little excitement we have for the next 25+ games. Then we can worry about what happens next year when the season is over. |
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Nov 30, 2021 7:48:23 GMT -6
And finally, of course, I think the University administration, even if it can’t pull the trigger for whatever reasons on getting a competent AD, should take the hiring of a new basketball coach for our only possible revenue program out of our current AD’s hands entirely lest she fumble the ball just as spectacularly again. Out of curiosity, are we all in agreement that the rumor that she wanted Otzelberger and got overruled was true? Because I've definitely come around to the idea that the program would've been far better off if we'd hired him. I wrote off a lot of what he did at SDSU because he was handed Mike Daum, but the guys he recruited continued to run the Summit even after the best one followed him. I don't think he was particularly deserving of the promotion based on what he did at UNLV, but he was at least on par with Marvin Menzies (who was a damn good mid-major coach at New Mexico State) Now the team he cobbled together at Iowa State has 4 more wins than Steve Prohm (another extremely successful mid-major coach) had all last year. He likely would not have stuck around much longer than LaVall, perhaps a second season? After seeing how things operate around here, he'd have been gone on the next thing smoking. Look at how quick he is to leave programs WITH administrative support. You don't think he would have left one without any as fast as possible? All TJ would have done is maybe delay this Baldwin debacle by a season, because I think that she hires him next regardless of who came after Jeter. |
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Nov 30, 2021 7:50:57 GMT -6
Oh yeah? Why? You're always quick to critique, but never present any alternatives. So, f*** your comment. Because of a certain player on our team who is going to be in the NBA, regardless of you thinking he’s not that good because he never won a HS state championship. It’s obvious that we’re going to struggle all season, likely due to poor coaching, but that player has gotten us a lot of press and created a buzz we haven’t had since 2014 (right before that buzz was quickly destroyed by a postseason ban). Of course, we totally f’d it up. But getting rid of the coach and a player who will likely have a successful career in the NBA while carrying along with him our university’s name for the first time ever is not exactly the best move in my opinion. Especially after just 6 games (4 in which he’s played in). Let’s let the kid get a few games under his belt and enjoy what little excitement we have for the next 25+ games. Then we can worry about what happens next year when the season is over. I don't see what you see (an NBA player, or any buzz), but I respect this reply much more than your earlier one. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 9:21:48 GMT -6
6 games into a long season..
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Post by posh4 on Nov 30, 2021 9:42:57 GMT -6
When you make a coaching decision based on race, this is what you end up with. I don't give a f*** what race the coach is, I want someone who can do the f******* job!
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Nov 30, 2021 11:41:20 GMT -6
When you make a coaching decision based on race, this is what you end up with. I don't give a f*** what race the coach is, I want someone who can do the f******* job! When you bring up the checking of certain boxes when it comes to hiring, the same argument can be made regarding the Athletics Director. Paul Plinske was the more qualified candidate for myriad reasons, but didn't check the two boxes that Snaglepuss does. |
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Post by parkerj on Nov 30, 2021 11:51:20 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, are we all in agreement that the rumor that she wanted Otzelberger and got overruled was true? Because I've definitely come around to the idea that the program would've been far better off if we'd hired him. I wrote off a lot of what he did at SDSU because he was handed Mike Daum, but the guys he recruited continued to run the Summit even after the best one followed him. I don't think he was particularly deserving of the promotion based on what he did at UNLV, but he was at least on par with Marvin Menzies (who was a damn good mid-major coach at New Mexico State) Now the team he cobbled together at Iowa State has 4 more wins than Steve Prohm (another extremely successful mid-major coach) had all last year. He likely would not have stuck around much longer than LaVall, perhaps a second season? After seeing how things operate around here, he'd have been gone on the next thing smoking. Look at how quick he is to leave programs WITH administrative support. You don't think he would have left one without any as fast as possible? All TJ would have done is maybe delay this Baldwin debacle by a season, because I think that she hires him next regardless of who came after Jeter. He got the UNLV job because of success at SDSU. Between the roster blowing up when Jeter left and the fact that he wouldn't have had Mike Daum (Nze is nice, he's not Mike Daum) I think it would've taken a lot longer to have the type of success that allowed him to leave. This past offseason was the first time since he became a HC that Iowa State was open |
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Post by PantherU on Nov 30, 2021 11:56:43 GMT -6
When you make a coaching decision based on race, this is what you end up with. I don't give a f*** what race the coach is, I want someone who can do the f******* job! As Amanda Braun's most well-known detractor, let me remind everyone that LaVall Jordan was 100% Mark Mone's hire and Amanda deserves zero blame. I will say that at worst Jordan's grade as our coach would be an incomplete and there was no way they could have known Thad Matta would leave Ohio State, Sean and Archie Miller would turn down the job, making Chris Holtmann the next man up and Barry Collier would go for the sentimental hire that the Butler fans had wanted when the job was open previously (Val). That was just a perfect storm. On the Pat Baldwin hire, Amanda was in charge of the entire process. Mone was not involved at all. But Amanda didn't hire PBS because he was black, she hired him because she knew him from their time together at UWGB. Out of curiosity, are we all in agreement that the rumor that she wanted Otzelberger and got overruled was true? Because I've definitely come around to the idea that the program would've been far better off if we'd hired him. It's only a rumor because no one was willing to put their name on it on the record. I spoke with Greg Matzek's source on the report that TJ Otzelberger had been offered the job before it was pulled from underneath him, and it's accurate. I spoke with the source a day or two after Matzek put it out and it was corroborated by a couple people who were part of the search process. I think TJ would have clearly been the correct choice. The big risk associated with him was that he was dirty and the NCAA would be up our ass, but he hasn't had them sniffing around him at SDSU, UNLV or ISU. The more likely "worst case scenario" with TJ would have been that he probably would have jumped to the next job without building our program up. FWIW, most D-I head and assistant coaches I talked to after LaVall was hired thought that TJ would have been able to keep our whole roster intact and plug in a couple transfer/JuCo recruits that would have met the high expectations for 2016-17 that Jeter's staff had. I've been writing a lengthy post for the board since Sunday afternoon that's going to address what I think we should do moving forward, but I will touch on a bit of it here. Amanda can't be hung with hiring LaVall Jordan, but she did hire Pat Baldwin. That's an N/A and an F in my grade book. Greg Henschel was an F hire, but Troy Fabiano has been an A+ hire for women's soccer. She dropped the hammer on Jeter but she also hasn't dropped the hammer on Scotty Doffek, whose baseball program has been stagnant for years. She hasn't dropped the hammer on Kyle Rechlicz and it's been for the best, as she's been able to rebuild the program after a couple down years and get them back to the top/near the top of the conference. So if I'm giving Amanda a grade for her job in managing coaching jobs, I'd give her a C- at this point. It'd be higher if she hadn't royally f***ed up the way she fired Jeter in 2016. So I don't think she will be unable to make a home run hire on the next coach, but I think we need to be clear in what we're looking for in the next coach (this is what my separate post is all about) so she knows what the fan base wants from that hire. I'll go into more detail on the full post. |
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Post by parkerj on Nov 30, 2021 12:09:26 GMT -6
When you make a coaching decision based on race, this is what you end up with. I don't give a f*** what race the coach is, I want someone who can do the f******* job! As Amanda Braun's most well-known detractor, let me remind everyone that LaVall Jordan was 100% Mark Mone's hire and Amanda deserves zero blame. I will say that at worst Jordan's grade as our coach would be an incomplete and there was no way they could have known Thad Matta would leave Ohio State, Sean and Archie Miller would turn down the job, making Chris Holtmann the next man up and Barry Collier would go for the sentimental hire that the Butler fans had wanted when the job was open previously (Val). That was just a perfect storm. On the Pat Baldwin hire, Amanda was in charge of the entire process. Mone was not involved at all. But Amanda didn't hire PBS because he was black, she hired him because she knew him from their time together at UWGB. Out of curiosity, are we all in agreement that the rumor that she wanted Otzelberger and got overruled was true? Because I've definitely come around to the idea that the program would've been far better off if we'd hired him. It's only a rumor because no one was willing to put their name on it on the record. I spoke with Greg Matzek's source on the report that TJ Otzelberger had been offered the job before it was pulled from underneath him, and it's accurate. I spoke with the source a day or two after Matzek put it out and it was corroborated by a couple people who were part of the search process. I think TJ would have clearly been the correct choice. The big risk associated with him was that he was dirty and the NCAA would be up our ass, but he hasn't had them sniffing around him at SDSU, UNLV or ISU. The more likely "worst case scenario" with TJ would have been that he probably would have jumped to the next job without building our program up. FWIW, most D-I head and assistant coaches I talked to after LaVall was hired thought that TJ would have been able to keep our whole roster intact and plug in a couple transfer/JuCo recruits that would have met the high expectations for 2016-17 that Jeter's staff had. I've been writing a lengthy post for the board since Sunday afternoon that's going to address what I think we should do moving forward, but I will touch on a bit of it here. Amanda can't be hung with hiring LaVall Jordan, but she did hire Pat Baldwin. That's an N/A and an F in my grade book. Greg Henschel was an F hire, but Troy Fabiano has been an A+ hire for women's soccer. She dropped the hammer on Jeter but she also hasn't dropped the hammer on Scotty Doffek, whose baseball program has been stagnant for years. She hasn't dropped the hammer on Kyle Rechlicz and it's been for the best, as she's been able to rebuild the program after a couple down years and get them back to the top/near the top of the conference. So if I'm giving Amanda a grade for her job in managing coaching jobs, I'd give her a C- at this point. It'd be higher if she hadn't royally f***ed up the way she fired Jeter in 2016. So I don't think she will be unable to make a home run hire on the next coach, but I think we need to be clear in what we're looking for in the next coach (this is what my separate post is all about) so she knows what the fan base wants from that hire. I'll go into more detail on the full post. Yeah I agree with all of this (though nitpick...Henschell wasn't her hire) |
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Post by steveisback on Nov 30, 2021 12:21:14 GMT -6
HOw about this for the next Head Coach -
<runs a style of play like Tom Davis/Bruce Pearl - exciting for fans
<has actually been a head coach with success, level not as important
<no more assistant coaches, coordinators
<has persoanality and marketing acumen
-
None of these happened after Pearl who had all of the above, and none of the coaches including Jeter has had since hence the missed opportunity and slow rot beginning in 2006 and culminating in the debacle, ie, nail in the coffin the way Jeters dismissal was handled and the clown show since. Would I take a 11 year run of one game over .500 in D 1 play over what we have now,? Of course, that is not the point. The point is to get it right per the above criteria once and for all.
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Post by GoPanthersGo23 on Nov 30, 2021 12:40:04 GMT -6
Oh yeah? Why? You're always quick to critique, but never present any alternatives. So, f*** your comment. Because of a certain player on our team who is going to be in the NBA, regardless of you thinking he’s not that good because he never won a HS state championship. It’s obvious that we’re going to struggle all season, likely due to poor coaching, but that player has gotten us a lot of press and created a buzz we haven’t had since 2014 (right before that buzz was quickly destroyed by a postseason ban). Of course, we totally f’d it up. But getting rid of the coach and a player who will likely have a successful career in the NBA while carrying along with him our university’s name for the first time ever is not exactly the best move in my opinion. Especially after just 6 games (4 in which he’s played in). Let’s let the kid get a few games under his belt and enjoy what little excitement we have for the next 25+ games. Then we can worry about what happens next year when the season is over. TBH I think PBJ is taking a lot of flack and he has only played in what, 3 games, and now is hurt? I think he is a great talent and once he gets healthy I am excited to watch him play after he gets more college games under his belt. Now, to say that we have had more press than ever, I beg to differ. I haven't noticed any uptick in coverage since he committed. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the buzz has worn off until we start winning then news will be like "Oh yeah, we have a top 5 recruit playing right here in our city" Also, with the success of MU and UW so far again this season we are still a far 4th in the pro and college basketball pecking order IMO. |
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