SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 11, 2022 23:25:00 GMT -6
The Horizon League and it's administrators have already turned this conference from a perenially respected Top 10 to Top 15 mid-major conference, into a low major conference - and one of the lowest ones at that. At this point, what difference does it make if they added Chicago State lol? What do you think they could've done differently? Outside of "don't add IUPUI", I'm not seeing much in the last 2 decades...when your conference gets poached, it falls off...maybe add a bunch of subpar FBS programs in crappy markets so nobody wants to steal them for the sport we care about? Well, the Horizon League was a 3 NCAA bid conference as recently as 1998 when it only had 8 schools, and was consistently rated in every metric near or in the Top 10 in basketball out of (at the time) 31 conferences. What should they have done? That's the wrong question. What you should be asking is what DID they do to get them from being a regular Top 10 league to where they are today. First, they decided they absolutely *had* to add Valpo in 1999 or 2000 from the Mid-Con (now Summit), and when Valpo refused the HL's invite due to family connections & loyalty to the Mid-Continent Conference (true story, look it up), the HL administration got super duper butt hurt and decided to instead poach bottom feeder YSU from the Mid-Con as some sort of "SO THERE!" moment. That immediately sent the HL on a downward trajectory from Top 10 to barely Top 15 conference. It caused Butler to want to leave the HL, and eventually years later Loyola and Valpo too. Since then, yes, we added some decent replacement schools at times, but almost every good addition has been accompanied by 2 of the very worst schools in D1 thanks to our incompetent Horizon League "leaders" looking to keep "markets" near their home offices, or other such selfish corporate BS. Look at where the conference is now - we have 6 to 7 of our 12 members among the very worst of D1 in MBB, every single year. But at least we still have Indiana programs! John, as someone who regularly writes (or blogs) about college hoops, I'm shocked you needed to ask this question, and needed it answered. LOL. |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 11, 2022 23:37:30 GMT -6
Anyways, to answer your question in case it wasn't super clear from my summation, the Horizon League has failed due to it's horrendously bad management by those in charge - from it's league office to it's schools administators - and therefore every school with competent administration runs away from the Horizon League as soon as they possibly can, whether they were already succesful in MBB (Butler & Valpo) or not yet (Loyola & UIC).
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Post by parkerj on Jan 12, 2022 0:28:00 GMT -6
Anyways, to answer your question in case it wasn't super clear from my summation, the Horizon League has failed due to it's horrendously bad management by those in charge - from it's league office to it's schools administators - and therefore every school with competent administration runs away from the Horizon League as soon as they possibly can, whether they were already succesful (Butler & Valpo) or not yet (Loyola & UIC). Schools were leaving the HL for the MVC when Milwaukee was just joining (and even earlier). It's not because the HL admin screwed up, it's because those were (and are) stronger leagues with better opportunities. If we were out here getting raided by the ASun? Yeah they f*cked up...if one of the 2 biggest screw ups the administrators made in the last 2 decades happened 21 years ago (that's...over 2 decades) I'd say they're fine. On paper, it seems like we should be a lot more desperate than we were fairly recently when our options were to jack up the footprint (NMSU/GCU) or add a ho-hum program or worse (IUPUI). I *think* we should be in a far better spot. |
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Post by parkerj on Jan 12, 2022 0:34:05 GMT -6
What do you think they could've done differently? Outside of "don't add IUPUI", I'm not seeing much in the last 2 decades...when your conference gets poached, it falls off...maybe add a bunch of subpar FBS programs in crappy markets so nobody wants to steal them for the sport we care about? That’s a valid point. Since Loyola left, most of the conference realignment moves have been pretty good. Oakland and NKU were really good pickups. Like most people, I liked getting RMU and despite a very shaky start, I know they have good potential. Fort Wayne was kinda blah, but not terrible. My fear, though, is that the Horizon League really wants a Chicago market team. They really wanted Indy and though it took a few years, we got IUPUI as they were the last available team from Indy in D-1 (at least unless UIndy moves up). Assuming UIC leaves, I’d imagine the league wants to get to 12. I’m hoping they forgo CSU despite their market. They could go for a team from D-2 (maybe USI) or try to poach another team from another D-1 conference (preferably Bellarmine or Morehead State… though I’d imagine SIUe could be in the running for that too). But my fear is that Chicago State will be the “answer” to the Horizon League’s Chicago problem much in the same way IUPUI was the “answer” to the Horizon League’s Indianapolis problem. If the HL adds Chicago State (or SIU-E) I'll be right there with you. I think they have better options. Louisville's a pretty sweet market! |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 12, 2022 1:08:12 GMT -6
Anyways, to answer your question in case it wasn't super clear from my summation, the Horizon League has failed due to it's horrendously bad management by those in charge - from it's league office to it's schools administators - and therefore every school with competent administration runs away from the Horizon League as soon as they possibly can, whether they were already succesful (Butler & Valpo) or not yet (Loyola & UIC). Schools were leaving the HL for the MVC when Milwaukee was just joining (and even earlier). It's not because the HL admin screwed up, it's because those were (and are) stronger leagues with better opportunities. If we were out here getting raided by the ASun? Yeah they f*cked up...if one of the 2 biggest screw ups the administrators made in the last 2 decades happened 21 years ago (that's...over 2 decades) I'd say they're fine. On paper, it seems like we should be a lot more desperate than we were fairly recently when our options were to jack up the footprint (NMSU/GCU) or add a ho-hum program or worse (IUPUI). I *think* we should be in a far better spot. That's fundamentally incorrect. The MCC/Horizon League was as strong or stronger than the MVC in the late 1990's and early 2000's, as I stated in my post that you either didn't read, or couldn't comprehend. Stop being purposfully obtuse, please. Our issue is simply an issue of institutional incompetence. I'm an athiest, but clearly, it's no wonder the MVC would rather have more private institutions than public ones, or a balance, because it's easier for public ones to have incompetent people rise to high positions (like MKE's last 4 or so AD's) that they don't deserve to be in than private ones. |
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Post by parkerj on Jan 12, 2022 1:52:16 GMT -6
Schools were leaving the HL for the MVC when Milwaukee was just joining (and even earlier). It's not because the HL admin screwed up, it's because those were (and are) stronger leagues with better opportunities. If we were out here getting raided by the ASun? Yeah they f*cked up...if one of the 2 biggest screw ups the administrators made in the last 2 decades happened 21 years ago (that's...over 2 decades) I'd say they're fine. On paper, it seems like we should be a lot more desperate than we were fairly recently when our options were to jack up the footprint (NMSU/GCU) or add a ho-hum program or worse (IUPUI). I *think* we should be in a far better spot. That's fundamentally incorrect. The MCC/Horizon League was as strong or stronger than the MVC in the late 1990's and early 2000's, as I stated in my post that you either didn't read, or couldn't comprehend. Stop being purposfully obtuse, please. Our issue is simply an issue of institutional incompetence. I'm an athiest, but clearly, it's no wonder the MVC would rather have more private institutions than public ones, or a balance, because it's easier for public ones to have incompetent people rise to high positions (like MKE's last 4 or so AD's) that they don't deserve to be in than private ones. I mean, I guess you're technically right that it's *kinda close* if you limit things to 1998 (the HL's best year, where it edged out the MVC by 2 spots in RPI) to 2004........if you count our 2 best season ever? MVC by a mile. Oof. |
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Post by cure on Jan 15, 2022 23:13:31 GMT -6
Schools were leaving the HL for the MVC when Milwaukee was just joining (and even earlier). It's not because the HL admin screwed up, it's because those were (and are) stronger leagues with better opportunities. If we were out here getting raided by the ASun? Yeah they f*cked up...if one of the 2 biggest screw ups the administrators made in the last 2 decades happened 21 years ago (that's...over 2 decades) I'd say they're fine. On paper, it seems like we should be a lot more desperate than we were fairly recently when our options were to jack up the footprint (NMSU/GCU) or add a ho-hum program or worse (IUPUI). I *think* we should be in a far better spot. That's fundamentally incorrect. The MCC/Horizon League was as strong or stronger than the MVC in the late 1990's and early 2000's, as I stated in my post that you either didn't read, or couldn't comprehend. This isn’t true. 1998 HL - 3 NCAA / 9 RPI MVC - 1 NCAA / 11 RPI 1999 MVC - 3 NCAA / 8 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 13 RPI 2000 MVC - 2 NCAA / 11 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 15 RPI 2001 MVC - 2 NCAA / 12 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 11 RPI 2002 MVC - 2 NCAA / 11 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 19 RPI 2003 MVC - 2 NCAA / 10 RPI HL - 2 NCAA / 14 RPI The MVC had 6 at-large bids in this stretch to the Horizon’s 3. The MVC also had an RPI 4-8 spots higher than the Horizon in 4 of these 6 years, while the Horizon was 1-2 spots higher in 2 of 6 years. |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 16, 2022 0:06:39 GMT -6
That's fundamentally incorrect. The MCC/Horizon League was as strong or stronger than the MVC in the late 1990's and early 2000's, as I stated in my post that you either didn't read, or couldn't comprehend. This isn’t true. 1998 HL - 3 NCAA / 9 RPI MVC - 1 NCAA / 11 RPI 1999 MVC - 3 NCAA / 8 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 13 RPI 2000 MVC - 2 NCAA / 11 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 15 RPI 2001 MVC - 2 NCAA / 12 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 11 RPI 2002 MVC - 2 NCAA / 11 RPI HL - 1 NCAA / 19 RPI 2003 MVC - 2 NCAA / 10 RPI HL - 2 NCAA / 14 RPI The MVC had 6 at-large bids in this stretch to the Horizon’s 3. The MVC also had an RPI 4-8 spots higher than the Horizon in 4 of these 6 years, while the Horizon was 1-2 spots higher in 2 of 6 years. Why did you stop at 2003, I'm wondering? Who are you, and why are you trying to downgrade/disprove that the Horizon League was actually one of the very best MBB conferences in the late 90's and early to mid 2000's? Do you know where the Horizon League is currently ranked out of the 32 conferences? It's galaxies away from that, thanks to bureaucratic incompetence. The HL is just about the worst conference in D1, when we were recently among the best. Again, who are you exactly... Mr or Mrs brand spanking new board member, with 2 posts ever? Tell us, or you'll have zero credibility forever  |
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Post by cure on Jan 16, 2022 12:19:55 GMT -6
I’m Amanda Braun. I stopped at 2003 because you said early 2000s. But here’s 2004: MVC 2 NCAA/11 RPI HL 1 NCAA/14 RPI |
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Jan 16, 2022 14:33:12 GMT -6
I’m Amanda Braun. I stopped at 2003 because you said early 2000s. But here’s 2004: MVC 2 NCAA/11 RPI HL 1 NCAA/14 RPI LMAO, and I'm Betty White! Go troll somewhere else, loser |
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