UIC 1/29/18

[steveisback]

Beg to differ.....Rob was stiff....Pat is engaging....comes across as enthusiastic and open, passionate...Rob was most of the time at least in P R situations , vague, stiff, guarded....aloof, uptight...I would not use any of those to describe Baldwin....what I believe they do share is high integrity, ethics, honesty, dedication...but same personality really???

[steveisback]

Also. coaching comparison aside as Rob was much better coach than Ric....Ric and Rob's personalities and PR acumen are much closer to each other than say Rob and Pat....

[BBFran]

Really. Every time I see or hear Coach B I think "just like Rob." And I beg to differ too. Rob (much like PB is now) was more tentative in his public appearances in his first year or two as a head coach, but he soon became very engaging and a very confident public speaker. And if you spent any time at all with him in small groups or one on one you immediately saw how good natured, funny, and yes, passionate he was. I hope we will see the same things in PB.

Is there a chance Steve that maybe you just tuned him out after the first couple years because he wasn't, ahem, Bruce Pearl?

As for comparing Rob and Pat as coaches, there's no way to do it yet. Pat will surely struggle at least the first few years as a head coach. Ask me in five years. If he's still here.

[steveisback]

Fran, maybe I did tune him out after awhile but it was way beyond first couple years. I remember his Full Court Clubs were so much like Rics meetings. Horrible....then Tip Off lunches at MAC where he rambled, was monotone and at the end of it no one really knew what he exactly said...it was brutal.... Last one I saw was a Tip Off luncheon at the Arena . Maybe he was uptiught after the academic ban but once again it was horrible ....also his TV Shows all the way through stiff as a board.....maybe in small groups which I did not see but that is the point. Small groups fine but in larger media or general Public environment even up until close to the end NEVER saw him funny, engaging.....wow....last thing I would ever describe Rob as... Regarding not being Bruce Pearl. I have no p0roblem with Baldwin or prior Jordan not being Bruce and also Rob....the problem was Rob was Rob...not that he was not Pearl.....Yes, I loved Pearl (Al MdGuire too) and you can not repeat as broke the mold with guys like that but wanted someone at least with a bit more of the skills related to promoting the program. Rob may have been better at the end than at the beginning but anyone else on this board want to chime in on how engaging and charismatic he was beyond a safe meeting with a couple people.....Fran...could your view be somewhat due to Baldwin and Jordan or anyone else who comes along not being ahem.....Rob Jeter?

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Really? We are now debating coaches PR capabilities? Did I miss a memo? Are we suddenly a 25 game winning program with at large potential, a sweet practice facility, a solid season ticket base, and engaged and enthused alumni?

PR skills? REALLY? Talk about deck chairs on the Titanic.

How about we debate the germain issues like an idiot at the helm?

[BBFran]

Steve, I think you we are edging towards understanding here. The reaction to someone's personality is always SUBJECTIVE. That's why I always thought the complaints from a few people about Rob's personality were completely unimportant in the great scheme. (Shout out to the Hawk on that.) I loved Pearl's results but from the first time I heard him talk I thought "used-car salesman." That's not necessarily bad, but it's also not necessarily good -- like most personality traits. We learned as the years went by that he also had some of the less savory traits of some in that profession. Rob was a guy I thought was sincere, honest, engaging and passionate. And I see a lot of that in Baldwin. Very similar personalities, from everything I have seen. So in fact, it's the exact opposite of me saying he's "not Rob Jeter." Whether he'll ever be as good a COACH as Rob became we won't know for years at least -- assuming the program survives that long.

Edited upon introspection!

[steveisback]

Darkhawk....must admit you have a very valid point above indeed....

Fran, I appreciate your post also above. That is a good point. Just felt from the start given the identify crisis we have always had that back after Pearl left we needed someone a lot more on the spectrum toward charisma not that was or is mutually exclusive with ethics. Anyway, I guess I have to also look in the mirror about the cowbell thing which I have been guilty of beating this same over and over. Bruce is gone, Rob was hired and IMO it was time to move on but Braun just tanked everything and now we have what we have. I hope she did not put us in a death apiral .

[BBFran]

I think that rounds us back to the essential point I was making. Whether you think PB is or is not like RJ, he is CERTAINLY nothing like Pearl in terms of his "charisma" level. His personality is not going to solve the attendance crisis.

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Oh for the love of God. Free gold bars would not solve the attendance crisis.

NO ONE CARES ANYMORE.

Last person out please turn out the lights. Party's over.

[steveisback]

After reading your post above DarkHawk I feel like turning on my car and closing the garage door..

[theDarkHawkReturns]

If someone offered me 4 courtside tickets, free food and drink, and an authentic jersey with my name on it, I am not sure I would bother making the 30 minute drive and pay for the parking to use it.

Mind you, it was not long ago I was a donor and season ticket holder.

I doubt highly I am alone in feeling the way I do.

[steveisback]

I am also a former donor and season ticket holder as well. Have not been down to a game in two years though at times I get hankerings to go. Kind of self-fulfilling prophecy in that one of reasons is it is so depressing to go and see the number of people there which often times is LESS actually in the stands than when Ric was coach. After we had made such progress to go back full circle to this is very depressing. I am obviously contributing to the problem though. At this point unfortunately I have about as much joy as one of Franz Kafka's mouse people in witnessing the experience personally

[SRT4driver]

Jan 30, 2018 18:29:23 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

There was a good student crowd last night. You had a pack of UIC fans at the game as well. Yet, we could only get a paid crowd (which a free student ticket, is part of the paid crowd) of 1,057.

Here are the numbers over the years for a season......

1,388-2017-18
1,462-2016-17
2,667-2015-16
3,134-2014-15 (Hosted Wisconsin)
2,847-2013-14
2,226-2012-13 (KC season)
4,154-2011-12 (Hosted Wisconsin)
4,154-2010-11 (Hosted Marquette. Hosted semi's & HL title game)
2,883-2009-10
3,275-2008-09
3,632-2007-08 (Hosted Wisconsin)
3,369-2006-07
5,305-2005-06 (HL semi & title game in that average)

This link has attendance figures for every year we've been D-I... www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance

Here's Pearl's four years:

5,065  '04-05 First full Cell season (HL semi & title game in that average)
4,324  '03-04 Cell for 9 regular season games, plus HL semi & title game in that average
4,266  '02-03 KC for regular season (HL semi & title game in that average at Cell)
3,226  '01-02 KC for full season

Here's the "Move to The Cell" press release from Oct 2003: mkepanthers.com/news/2003/10/14/101403aab_810.aspx?path=mbball

[SRT4driver]

I thought there was a true 1,000 people in the arena Monday night, thanks to the 400+ students we had.

Also, it's clear from looking at the numbers the last 12 years that our attendance issues started, and continually got worse under Jeter. I'd be interested to see those season averages with the Uw-Madison, Marquette, and HL tournament games removed, but I don't have the time to do the research right now sadly.