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Post by pantherproud on May 17, 2016 6:49:02 GMT -6
My argument isn't that Braun is great..far from it. It's that more ad turnover is worse than keeping her right now. Stripping down the entire thing to just this. Explain why, please. Well for starters, how great of a candidate do you think we'll get when we've had 6 in the last 10 years and they know that the current AD was promptly removed after making a reasonable coaching change? Any good AD wants the ability to run the department as they see fit and if they think a little bad PR will get them canned when trying to make personnel decisions they won't take the job. Also you have a brand new coach - the Jeter supporters validly claim it was hard for him to do his job with all the turnover. Then Why do that to Val? Beyond that I think the one big point I can agree with you all on is that Mone has been completely inept with athletics. If we need change anywhere it is probably him first. It's not Braun's fault that her boss doesn't get it. If her budget was larger we wouldn't be talking about most of these issues and that is a reflection on Mone not braun. Nancy Zimpher got it and thats why we had a great run years ago. We haven't had a chancellor since that did. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 17, 2016 9:54:43 GMT -6
If your argument is that we should accept what is, at minimum, poor performance, or in the worst case is a total lack of professionalism, accountability, repeated lying in public and private, and possibly outright fraudulent actions simply because changing the AD, no matter how incompetent, is worse, then we have little more to discuss.
Lincoln was faced with similar issues in the Civil War, a literal life and death endeavor, and he had the courage to continue to make changes in leadership until he found the right leader to get the job done. HE never worried that changing his generals would lead to bad PR....he was looking to win a war, not a PR game.
Your argument is essentially that changes at the AD are much worse than allowing a buffoon to continue to hold the post and inflict damage on the entire University from within. This is a person, by the way, who has already cost the University (not just the Athletic Department, mind you) over $5 million dollars in donations to academic efforts, and yet you continue to argue that she "isn't that bad" and "change is worse".
Tell me then, how bad must it get for you to agree she (and probably Mone) need to go? $10 million? $20 million? Where is your line? How bad must it get before you stop defending her and join us in demands for accountability, transparency and professional conduct?
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Post by pantherproud on May 17, 2016 10:48:01 GMT -6
If your argument is that we should accept what is, at minimum, poor performance, or in the worst case is a total lack of professionalism, accountability, repeated lying in public and private, and possibly outright fraudulent actions simply because changing the AD, no matter how incompetent, is worse, then we have little more to discuss. Lincoln was faced with similar issues in the Civil War, a literal life and death endeavor, and he had the courage to continue to make changes in leadership until he found the right leader to get the job done. HE never worried that changing his generals would lead to bad PR....he was looking to win a war, not a PR game. Your argument is essentially that changes at the AD are much worse than allowing a buffoon to continue to hold the post and inflict damage on the entire University from within. This is a person, by the way, who has already cost the University (not just the Athletic Department, mind you) over $5 million dollars in donations to academic efforts, and yet you continue to argue that she "isn't that bad" and "change is worse". Tell me then, how bad must it get for you to agree she (and probably Mone) need to go? $10 million? $20 million? Where is your line? How bad must it get before you stop defending her and join us in demands for accountability, transparency and professional conduct? Your Lincoln reference could be used to support Braun just as well as she has had no problem changing coaches in order to find someone to get the job done. It would have been much easier for her if she hadn't fired Jeter and others, but maybe they were the problem and maybe she is being courageous. Time will tell. Obviously, there are costs with those decisions and she obviously felt it was worth those costs. If she is wrong and the changes don't work out, she will and should pay the price. My point is that the grass is always greener and clearly we've seen how replacing one AD can lead to an even worse situation. We at least have an AD willing to go to bat for a practice facility and we've never had that before, so there are worse outcomes. Give it time and her choices will either perform or she will be let go. I simply don't think your approach of trying to burn your own university down in rapid fashion to get change makes any sense - i would call that something to be ashamed of. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 17, 2016 11:01:46 GMT -6
She has had 3 years....this was not her first move as AD. After 3 years, she has a definite record and should be judged on it. I am judging her on it, and all the horrible decisions and actions she has made and done in that time.
You act as though she just took the job weeks before she made a decision to fire Jeter, and continue, conveniently, to ignore every other non-Jeter example of incompetence and malpractice you are offered.
So I guess in your world 3 years is not long enough to judge results, and firing Jeter was all that you really wanted so you will gleefully ignore everything else she has ever done or said.
Noted.
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Post by pantherproud on May 18, 2016 5:59:15 GMT -6
She has had 3 years....this was not her first move as AD. After 3 years, she has a definite record and should be judged on it. I am judging her on it, and all the horrible decisions and actions she has made and done in that time. You act as though she just took the job weeks before she made a decision to fire Jeter, and continue, conveniently, to ignore every other non-Jeter example of incompetence and malpractice you are offered. So I guess in your world 3 years is not long enough to judge results, and firing Jeter was all that you really wanted so you will gleefully ignore everything else she has ever done or said. Noted. I don't think 3 years is long enough to decide on. Just as it wasn't long enough when jeter took over. There are holdovers from the last regime that aren't a reflection on the current leader with any change. I think the results so far are mixed. She has made mistakes but she's also accomplished some big things that other ad's couldn't get done in 20 years and you conveniently look past those. As I said, time will tell but a change at chancellor is more important. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 18, 2016 6:43:52 GMT -6
What did she accomplish that no other AD could do in 20 years? That is a very strong statement, and I am curious as to what you are referring to.
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Post by pantherproud on May 18, 2016 6:56:37 GMT -6
What did she accomplish that no other AD could do in 20 years? That is a very strong statement, and I am curious as to what you are referring to. I don't recall any other AD getting the naming rights for our arena. Or actually getting a formal plan drawn up and presented for a practice facility. Funding for it is out of her control but at least she has pushed it forward. No other AD had the guts to attempt either of those items because they were big ideas that they thought were out of reach. And before you say they don't matter - check out Coach Val taking pictures at Panther arena with recruits and then landing them...players care about that stuff. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 18, 2016 7:22:34 GMT -6
Two things? TWO? That's what you got? TWO things? ok. In 3 years she did TWO things, one of which was buying something , and the other is a "plan" with absolutely no results? That's it, huh? I think you just made my case for me, but let's examine your two examples, shall we?
So UWM buying naming rights to an arena is a major accomplishment? I like it and all, but it really isn't an "AD Hall of Fame" caliber achievement. She spent a lot of money to get the UWM name on the arena we play in, after the WI Center District could not renew the naming rights with US Cellular, and did not have any other suitors. She literally bought something when she was the only bidder. Gotcha. Great accomplishment.
Then she completely screwed the branding. It's not the "Milwaukee Panther Arena". Nope. Its the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena. Perfect. Spend years trying to get ESPN et. al. to call us the Milwaukee Panthers, pay to put your name on a building, and use the wrong one. WINNING!
As for the practice facility, a plan is not a result. It's just a plan. I have all kinds of plans too...they are worth bupkiss unless I EXECUTE them.
Furthermore, the practice facility plan has been on the table for a long time now in one form or another, so while I do give her credit for pushing the issue, it isn't exactly her idea. Hell, Jimmy has done as much to push that issue as she has, so does that make him an accomplished AD too?
Now if she was so incredible, she would have done those two - TWO - things along with, I don't know, not cutting every single program's budget via increased donations to make up for losses of other revenues, not firing a conference champion coach for "performance" (read: him daring to disagree with Her Highness, Queen Amanda of Downer), making our biggest donors hate her and by extension, the university itself, and maybe, you know, not dancing around the dumpster fire with glee.
Seriously, if she was so good, she would have understood that she needed to embrace the political right in Madison, befriend people who could help her make the case to let the practice facility stay in the budget, and we would be in construction, not waiting for another maybe some day hopefully UWM thing. She is not only personally obtuse, she is politically obtuse. It would NOT have been hard to reach out to some people that could have helped her, but instead she, once again, did it "her way" and failed.
I (among others) have some serious political connections that I would have been willing to use to help. Now she is going to find out that I have political in's the hard way....God willing....that's MY plan.
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Post by pantherproud on May 18, 2016 7:32:24 GMT -6
Two things? TWO? That's what you got? TWO things? ok. In 3 years she did TWO things, one of which was buying something , and the other is a "plan" with absolutely no results? That's it, huh? I think you just made my case for me, but let's examine your two examples, shall we? So UWM buying naming rights to an arena is a major accomplishment? I like it and all, but it really isn't an "AD Hall of Fame" caliber achievement. She spent a lot of money to get the UWM name on the arena we play in, after the WI Center District could not renew the naming rights with US Cellular, and did not have any other suitors. She literally bought something when she was the only bidder. Gotcha. Great accomplishment. Then she completely screwed the branding. It's not the "Milwaukee Panther Arena". Nope. Its the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena. Perfect. Spend years trying to get ESPN et. al. to call us the Milwaukee Panthers, pay to put your name on a building, and use the wrong one. WINNING! As for the practice facility, a plan is not a result. It's just a plan. I have all kinds of plans too...they are worth bupkiss unless I EXECUTE them. Furthermore, the practice facility plan has been on the table for a long time now in one form or another, so while I do give her credit for pushing the issue, it isn't exactly her idea. Hell, Jimmy has done as much to push that issue as she has, so does that make him an accomplished AD too? Now if she was so incredible, she would have done those two - TWO - things along with, I don't know, not cutting every single program's budget via increased donations to make up for losses of other revenues, not firing a conference champion coach for "performance" (read: him daring to disagree with Her Highness, Queen Amanda of Downer), making our biggest donors hate her and by extension, the university itself, and maybe, you know, not dancing around the dumpster fire with glee. Seriously, if she was so good, she would have understood that she needed to embrace the political right in Madison, befriend people who could help her make the case to let the practice facility stay in the budget, and we would be in construction, not waiting for another maybe some day hopefully UWM thing. She is not only personally obtuse, she is politically obtuse. It would NOT have been hard to reach out to some people that could have helped her, but instead she, once again, did it "her way" and failed. I (among others) have some serious political connections that I would have been willing to use to help. Now she is going to find out that I have political in's the hard way....God willing....that's MY plan. I think you've just made every American's point as to why our political system is a joke. Too many ego's and no common sense or ability to work together. But good job patting yourself on the back for all your connections. Hope you sleep better tonight formulating a plan to get someone fired to stroke your ego. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 18, 2016 7:55:29 GMT -6
Nice rebuttal...ignore all the arguments and go ad hominem. That's all you got, huh? Can't refute the arguments???
For the record, there is nothing wrong at all with working within the system (flawed though it may be) to get what you want done. The Bucks owners understood that, and even though they may personally disagree with the party currently in power, they understood the process and formed alliances and got a new arena for themselves, and the city, and did it in a way that everyone could be proud of.
I will be doing all I can to better the University and the Athletics Program. That does not mean blindly supporting the buffoons in charge, and the rank incompetence they have displayed. It sometimes means getting rid of those in charge, exposing the messes they made, and changing the direction of the institution. (Note I did not say bettering the Chancellor or the Athletic Director. They are people, not the institutions, and it is the institutions I support, period.)
It appears you think "support" means ignoring/explaining/justifying idiocy, whistling past the grave yard, conflating the people and the institutions, and letting more of the same stupidity to occur again and again while hoping it just magically works out.
We have had about enough of that in the last decade or so at UWM, frankly.
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Post by mke2chi on May 18, 2016 8:26:39 GMT -6
Whatever happened to the student fee money for a new on campus arena? Or was that used for the buyout?
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Post by pantherproud on May 18, 2016 8:55:23 GMT -6
Two things? TWO? That's what you got? TWO things? ok. In 3 years she did TWO things, one of which was buying something , and the other is a "plan" with absolutely no results? That's it, huh? I think you just made my case for me, but let's examine your two examples, shall we? So UWM buying naming rights to an arena is a major accomplishment? I like it and all, but it really isn't an "AD Hall of Fame" caliber achievement. She spent a lot of money to get the UWM name on the arena we play in, after the WI Center District could not renew the naming rights with US Cellular, and did not have any other suitors. She literally bought something when she was the only bidder. Gotcha. Great accomplishment. Then she completely screwed the branding. It's not the "Milwaukee Panther Arena". Nope. Its the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena. Perfect. Spend years trying to get ESPN et. al. to call us the Milwaukee Panthers, pay to put your name on a building, and use the wrong one. WINNING! As for the practice facility, a plan is not a result. It's just a plan. I have all kinds of plans too...they are worth bupkiss unless I EXECUTE them. Furthermore, the practice facility plan has been on the table for a long time now in one form or another, so while I do give her credit for pushing the issue, it isn't exactly her idea. Hell, Jimmy has done as much to push that issue as she has, so does that make him an accomplished AD too? Now if she was so incredible, she would have done those two - TWO - things along with, I don't know, not cutting every single program's budget via increased donations to make up for losses of other revenues, not firing a conference champion coach for "performance" (read: him daring to disagree with Her Highness, Queen Amanda of Downer), making our biggest donors hate her and by extension, the university itself, and maybe, you know, not dancing around the dumpster fire with glee. Seriously, if she was so good, she would have understood that she needed to embrace the political right in Madison, befriend people who could help her make the case to let the practice facility stay in the budget, and we would be in construction, not waiting for another maybe some day hopefully UWM thing. She is not only personally obtuse, she is politically obtuse. It would NOT have been hard to reach out to some people that could have helped her, but instead she, once again, did it "her way" and failed. I (among others) have some serious political connections that I would have been willing to use to help. Now she is going to find out that I have political in's the hard way....God willing....that's MY plan. There's more than 2. She also removed a severely underperforming coach. Also, as far branding... anyone with a brain realizes that you can't name the arena something other than the University's official name regardless of how much we all want to drop the UW. Especially when the university system is writing the check. Aside from all of that - you are missing my main point and actual call for change at the chancellor level. That is where funding for athletics starts and stops so if you remove Braun and not Mone nothing changes. |
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Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 18, 2016 8:57:40 GMT -6
Who said Braun is my only target? You assume too much.
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Post by PantherU on May 18, 2016 12:07:06 GMT -6
Whatever happened to the student fee money for a new on campus arena? Or was that used for the buyout? I was gonna respond here. Then I realized I had way too much to say: Link: Questions remain |
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