Where to go from here

[skrapheap]

Mar 22, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -6 pantherproud said:

I think most of you need to take a breath and relax. As a long time Panther fan, alum and season ticket holder I too am concerned about how the firing was handled in regards to the communication with the players. However, most of your arguments as to why you are upset are unreasonable. We can go back multiple years on this very forum and find your own quotes about wanting Jeter gone and now when it finally happens you are upset?? That makes no sense. He was a nice guy, average coach, lacked the energy to attract new fans and the program went backwards from where it was under Pearl in both record and attendance. If Braun hires someone ("with a little fire") as she said, that is better than Jeter (ie TJ Otzelberger, etc) will you still be upset? None of you are the AD, and all of us went a great program so let's see who is hired and then move forward.

i think you need to re-read this thread, and a bunch of other related threads. The number of persons on this board who are upset solely because Rob Jeter was fired is very small. The number of persons who are upset because of how the firing was handled by the Athletic Director is large.

i am much more of a fan of volleyball and women's basketball than i am of men's basketball. That's why i don't post very much (comparatively) to the threads on this section of the board. But no matter what i think of the men's program, i believe, as many others on this board do, that the current director of the Department of Athletics has badly mishandled this situation, with likely very serious consequences for funding of the entire department.

Men's basketball pays a lot of bills around here; from ticket sales and concessions, but much more from donations to the department, and to the University. Since she was hired, i have been seeing claims on this board that Amanda Braun has dealt very poorly with donors. There are claims that she has alienated a number of large-dollar donors to athletics and some corporate sponsors as well.

i don't have much of a connection to athletics, so i don't have much information available to me with which i can evaluate those claims. Many of the persons who have made those claims in the past have remained completely anonymous on this board, so i have been skeptical about those claims. However, in this most recent case, a great deal more information has been made available on this board, which makes the claims more credible. One particular major donor, Mr. Nicholas, has publicly stated that he is on the point of being finished as a donor, and he had give much more money to UWM as a whole than he had to athletics. That is why this matter is so serious, and that is why so many on this board have critized the current AD.

[pantherproud]

I get that, but my point is very simple. There is no easy way to fire someone, Coach Jeter included. Should she have made the players aware in person - absolutely. However, upsetting a major donor is what it is. I would rather have a dept that is willing to upset a donor to upgrade the Coach and product on the floor. The reality is the program wouldn't have to worry about the money given by any one particular donor if we sold more tickets - that requires a better coach. I'm not saying Braun hasn't made mistakes in this situation, but i don't think they are egregious as you are making them out to be. I for one think an upgrade at Coach brings more stability to the program and better funding over the long term. Let's not forget, we have been dealing with a coach ready to jump ship at every turn. That doesn't help in recruiting, funding, etc. either.

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Interestingly it appears the new members of the board always seem to defend Braun....hmmmmm.

PantherProud, just to be clear, I really don't think you get it. The arguments against Braun have little to do with the "Fire Jeter/Keep Jeter" debate. In fact, that episode is only the most recent one.

The best example I can give you is this: The players (on their own, mind you) determined that the AD and her staff did not support them. So much so, in fact, they created a hash tag to express how they felt. (#itsjustus)

The AD was so obtuse, so disconnected, so stupid, that they co-opted the hash tag for the student section. A hash tag highlighting the ineptitude and failings of the AD was promoted by....the AD.

I could go on, but why bother.

[uwm97]

I don't think you'll find anybody anywhere who thinks this process was anything but amateur hour. It's also wishful thinking that Mone is going to fire Braun post haste, bring in a new AD, and then have that new AD hire a new coach. This is a government bureaucracy and things like that do not happen in couple of weeks' time. So please, let's all accept it and move on. There will be a new coach and largely a new team next year, so the sooner the new coach is hired, the better. The new coach will have three-four years to move the program higher than what we had with Jeter. If this doesn't happen, the AD and coach will be gone.

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Mar 22, 2016 11:27:41 GMT -6 pantherproud said:

I get that, but my point is very simple. There is no easy way to fire someone, Coach Jeter included. Should she have made the players aware in person - absolutely. However, upsetting a major donor is what it is. I would rather have a dept that is willing to upset a donor to upgrade the Coach and product on the floor. The reality is the program wouldn't have to worry about the money given by any one particular donor if we sold more tickets - that requires a better coach. I'm not saying Braun hasn't made mistakes in this situation, but i don't think they are egregious as you are making them out to be. I for one think an upgrade at Coach brings more stability to the program and better funding over the long term. Let's not forget, we have been dealing with a coach ready to jump ship at every turn. That doesn't help in recruiting, funding, etc. either.

Please explain to me how you think we will get an "upgrade" at head coach with the following realities in play:

1. Pissed off donors stop giving money (Nicholas is not the only one, just the only one on the record)

2. UWM needs donor money to pay a head coach salary in the Jeter range or higher...actually they probably need it for even half of Jeter's salary level.

3. Jeter's payout will cost the department (now minus donors) about $400k in excess of the new coach's salary

4. This new mythical upgrade at HC will cost likely as much or more than Rob did, so now we have a HC salary expense for one year at about $800 or even $1 Million.  Again....this has to be done with less donor money, perhaps significantly less.

5. This new mythical superstar HC will need to fill out probably 50% of the roster on day one.  And that is if only some of the players leave....it only gets worse from there...there is a possibility that we have no scholarship players on the roster for the mythical superstar to coach.

6. Without these donors, the recruiting budget is now lower, meaning filling out that roster just got exponentially harder.

7. If corporate sponsors are also pissed, the money problems only compound after all this.

8. If the money dries up, who funds all the other sports programs like volleyball and the like?

So, as you can see, it isn't really all that likely that Braun pulls a rabbit out of her hat and hires a superstar to rescue her from the mess she made...its far more likely we end up with a coach with little to no D1 experience who is willing to take a big chance....and that kind of hire will NOT reignite the fans, sell tickets, or mend the fences with the donors and sponsors.

But please do not let this get in the way of your dreams of the next Shaka Smart showing up at the podium on Downer.

[pantherproud]

I do get it - much more than you. To be perfectly clear - i'm not here to defend Braun. Feel free to blast her as much as you want. I'm going to reserve my judgement on her until I see who she hires. If she goes big on the hire, I would say she will deserve credit for trying to return the program to what it was. A program where 10,000 strong were storming the court because we couldn't be stopped. If she hires the cheapest option - i'll be fully on board with your criticism. I also understand that players have been upset about conditions in this program since the Rick Cobb era so your arguments aren't new. However,it only got better when we had top flight coaches (Bo and then followed by Bruce). The program grew leaps and bounds in just a few years because we were no longer an average team on the court. The players still complained about the facilities, court time, etc. - they just didn't have Twitter to make it so public. As a side note - as much as I support the players, i'm not a fan of them airing dirty laundry for all to see. Time for them to grow up and handle it like men. talk to the AD, keep it in house.

[pantherproud]

Sounds to me like you are here to fight for the donors. Let's not forget all of those donors came to the program because he hired an energetic top flight coach. Prior to that we didn't have any to really speak of. If you hire a great coach donors won't dry up - regardless of what they are saying now. They might be mad they didn't get consulted, but if they think its an upgrade, they will stay around and help fund the program.

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Mar 22, 2016 11:44:54 GMT -6 pantherproud said:

I do get it - much more than you. To be perfectly clear - i'm not here to defend Braun. Feel free to blast her as much as you want. I'm going to reserve my judgement on her until I see who she hires. If she goes big on the hire, I would say she will deserve credit for trying to return the program to what it was. A program where 10,000 strong were storming the court because we couldn't be stopped. If she hires the cheapest option - i'll be fully on board with your criticism. I also understand that players have been upset about conditions in this program since the Rick Cobb era so your arguments aren't new. However,it only got better when we had top flight coaches (Bo and then followed by Bruce). The program grew leaps and bounds in just a few years because we were no longer an average team on the court. The players still complained about the facilities, court time, etc. - they just didn't have Twitter to make it so public. As a side note - as much as I support the players, i'm not a fan of them airing dirty laundry for all to see. Time for them to grow up and handle it like men. talk to the AD, keep it in house.

Using Bo as an example to follow is not exactly the best option.  He literally was here only until Big Whiskey came a'callin'.  Bud had more to do with the success of the program in those years than Bo.  Don't get me wrong, it was good we had him at all, but he is not the type of guy you want right now.

Same goes for Bruce.  Pearl was here for Pearl, period.  He took every shortcut he could to win, and as soon as he had the chance he bailed.  And he only really won at Milwaukee because of guys JETER recruited under Bo (AT, etc.).  I would prefer we avoid having another coach use us that way again.

And again I point out that she has a whole lot less in the way of resources to pull off the miracle you suggest.  Not sure where all the money for a new flashy coach, and all these upgraded conditions you dream of comes from.  Right now they cannot even seem to afford to be able to fly the team to Detroit for a road game....so....yeah.

[theDarkHawkReturns]

Mar 22, 2016 11:49:25 GMT -6 pantherproud said:

Sounds to me like you are here to fight for the donors. Let's not forget all of those donors came to the program because he hired an energetic top flight coach. Prior to that we didn't have any to really speak of. If you hire a great coach donors won't dry up - regardless of what they are saying now. They might be mad they didn't get consulted, but if they think its an upgrade, they will stay around and help fund the program.

If you are BROKE now, how are you expecting to pay this coach?  The money has to be there to make the flashy hire, not the other way around.

Bo was cheap because he was not a D1 coach...and he was one of a kind.  Pearl was cheap because he was black balled....no program in their right mind would hire them....except us....so we got the discount rate.  We COULD hire them both sans donor money becasue they were cheap hires

Are you expecting to find another D3 future coaching HOF'er or another black balled carnival barker?  You really think Braun is going to find another diamond in the rough overlooked by the entire basketball universe at pennies on the dollar???

[apaladino]

Mar 22, 2016 11:28:30 GMT -6 uwm97 said:

I don't think you'll find anybody anywhere who thinks this process was anything but amateur hour. It's also wishful thinking that Mone is going to fire Braun post haste, bring in a new AD, and then have that new AD hire a new coach. This is a government bureaucracy and things like that do not happen in couple of weeks' time. So please, let's all accept it and move on. There will be a new coach and largely a new team next year, so the sooner the new coach is hired, the better. The new coach will have three-four years to move the program higher than what we had with Jeter. If this doesn't happen, the AD and coach will be gone.

as will the donors and fan base.....can the University afford to "move on" without those two important cogs? I say no. This will set us back a decade....

[brewcityitalian]

Braun just took away your biggest donors, how the hell you gonna build baseball facilities and a basketball practice facility when your biggest donors are gone ? Zimmerman is nowhere close to getting baseball in franklin or oak creek. the University has been offered land by Humboldt and Chambers which is a heck of a lot closer than 30 minutes away from campus. Seriously, you just threw away a lot of money in pissing off donors.

This baseball fiasco has gone long enough, either work out a deal to play more games at Miller Park or Builda better facility at Chambers and Humboldt. It was an embarrassment enough to have to hold the conference tourney at Concordia's field. It is a shame that we have the worst baseball facility in the country and yet we are the only division I team in Wisconsin. Pretty much every Division III school has better baseball facilities than we do. that is a daam shame.

She also has done more damage to the brand this week along than Koonce and Costello did combined in their whole time, and trust me I have a true ax to grind with Costello to this day due to a presentation with some choice words under someones breath which could be heard by many.

Also, the marketing department has done truly piss poor job in activation, branding and marketing, Especially in regards to student marketing and not even caring about trying to get more students to games when the facilities and students on campus are your easiest targets, yet we waste money on stupid billboards along the freeway that nobody cares about the day of the game.

Also, any blind squirrel would have known we needed to go back to the Arena and fix Geiger's mess up.

So besides taking us back to Panther Arena, what has she really done in her tenure ?

Not Much !

I could do a better job than she is doing at the half the pay easily.

[pantherproud]

Once again, you are assuming the donors and corporate sponsors are leaving. I think you are being to quick to that suggestion. Most donors will look at the situation when the new coach is hired and then decide what they want to do. Resources may not change from what we have now. We just disagree on the direction for the program. I would rather aim high and sit in a packed stadium with a .68 winning %, a Bruce tyoe as coach even with his faults and you prefer a squeaky clean program with an Apr ban and .50 record. Different standards I guess.

[brewcityitalian]

see your just looking at it as winning, I'm looking at it as building a program thru winning, marketing, activation, branding, better facilities.

It's ok, I understand, your happy with the status quo of the biggest program in the horizon.

I'd prefer to be have the best facilities and the best teams and maybe eventually get the heck out of the horizon to a better conference thru those facilities, and better marketing and activation, and turning those students who aren't given a daam besides a free burrito or zubaz to come to a game, and get them more involved and to get them and more of their friends to games.

lets remember, future students are future alumni and future alumni donate to the university.

I think your missing the whole point just cuz your stuck on the whole Bruce thing.

[brewcityitalian]

Donors leaving, you just lost your biggest donor of them all in Nicholas. That doesn't speak volumes already ?

[BBFran]

I'm not going to try to weigh in on everything. Let me focus on one issue, the decision to fire Rob now when his contract was up at the end of next year and the situation would have been resolved in an orderly and far less expensive way. But first I want to say something that might surprise people. I am not a friend of Rob's. We are friendly, but we don't know each other at all except in the context of the basketball program. I have never sent or received a text from him, don't have his phone number in my contacts, don't know his kids' names. I'm not the kind of donor who expects to be invited over for a barbecue. It's ridiculous that I should even have to say that, but there seem to be people here (and I'm not even counting the ham-handed trolls from the department belatedly trying to win a social media war of their own creation) who can't conceive why anyone would oppose Rob's firing if they weren't a personal friend.

I have a simple question: other than personal animus or exceptionally poor judgment what could possibly have justified the AD taking this action NOW instead of letting the contract run its course?

Which it would have done in one more year, a year in which many of our key players would have been back as seniors. Could anyone possibly be surprised how justifiably hurt and angry those kids would be especially after what they sacrificed these last two years and how they stayed together? Or that there would be a potential run for the exits? Can anyone realistically argue that there is some incredible coaching candidate that we can only get this year, and that next year we would have no similar candidate? Does anyone honestly believe that our team has any chance whatsoever of being as good next year -- just next year -- after this decision as it was likely to be without it? Can anyone fathom how a decision to pay TWO coaches, with critical donor defections, could have anything but the most negative financial effect on our entire athletic program? I can tell you that as a donor I cannot even imagine making a contribution knowing that it will inevitably be used just to bandage a self-inflicted wound.

All of this horrible collateral damage, and here's the thing: we had a clean coach and clean program that was on the right track academically, that was causing us no grief whatsoever off the court, that played exciting basketball and that had been in the tournament just two years ago. (I GUARANTEE we will not be hiring a coach who has taken a team to the tournament, much less with his own recruits. Most likely we will be hiring a coach who has literally never even had his own team to blow a whistle at.) This simply was not a situation for which there was any justification for moving now instead of a year from now.

The athletic administration at this University has let us down time and again over the last ten years, but this terrible decision is my tipping point. It was foolish, it was rash and most important it was needless. It was a big middle finger to so many of us who have been loyal and generous. Message received.