Game 6- Rider

[The Green Gull]

Nov 25, 2012 23:04:37 GMT -6 loveyouso said:

In a discussion that I had with Andy Geiger about firing Mark Duffner at MD, Geiger said if you want to fire a coach you better have a good replacement in mind.

Here’s two intriguing candidates that come to mind, who both happened to be Wisconsin natives:


T.J. Otzelberger
• Associate Head Coach at Iowa State
• Played collegiately at UW-Whitewater
• Native of Milwaukee, WI
• Link - www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10700&ATCLID=507699

Lance Randall
• Head Coach at Saint Leo’s
• Played collegiately at Beloit College
• Native of Montfort, WI
• Link - www.saintleolions.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/20110714vzch10


Both Otzelberger and Randall not only are outstanding coaches who are familiar with basketball in the state of Wisconsin but they are excellent fits for the program. Both candidates are great salesmen, tremendous motivators, and excellent recruiters.

[bigcatlover]

I, too, have wondered about Kelm's lethargy and missed opportunities.
But occasionally he has a really good game.
Does anyone have any insight about his erratic play?

[PANTHERfan]

As interesting as it is to contemplate potential replacement coaches, it's a futile effort (for now). 97 is absolutely right --- Geiger's temp status, combined with Jeter's ridiculous contract, mean nothing is changing in the near term. First things first. We need a permanent AD.

The program is in a tough spot.

[Deleted]

And the "coach search team" is back at it again. Have we seen dismal starts in almost every season (barring '05-'06) under Jeter? Yes- and I agree it is disappointing that it seems to take until late December for teams under Jeter to gel and really get going.

Is it time to call for a coach's firing 6 games into a 31+ game season? You can answer that one yourself (I suppose you think "yes"). I'll defend Jeter until he doesn't just have gong games- but gong season like '06-'07 (9-22), which was to be expected considering all the Pearl-era departures and the rebuilding that had to take place.

Consider this- Marquette spends nearly 11 million dollars on their basketball program. And the results show it. Other big-time programs (like Iowa, Oklahoma St., Nebraska, etc.) spend (don't quote me) at least 2-3x the 2.2 million or so we do (and we are in the red- unlike a lot of these other programs). How great has Iowa been lately? How about the OK-St. Cowboys? How about them Nebraska Cornuskers?

They are world-beaters for sure (and able to spend way more than we do on their men's hoops program). We are a very small fish in an ocean, and while I also want way more than we've gotten these past 6 seasons- I am also cognizant of the fact that we are doing pretty dang good on the shoestring budget we are working with.

One of these "great candidates" people keep bringing up could turn out to be the next Ric Cobb. Is that a gamble you are willing to make? We don't have the money to lure a sure-fire winning coach to Milwaukee. Just face the facts.

It ain't gonna happen with what little cash we have on hand. I guess I am risk-averse, but I'll take a coach whom I truly believe is going to get us back to the Tourney in the next two years over an unproven assistant or a D-III/D-II coach who could turn out to be a flop.

I say we should NEVER settle for mediocrity and we should look to Butler/Davidson/Gonzaga, etc. as a template to get to where we want to be (a year-in-year-out contender for at least the NIT, but the goal should absolutely be to win the League Tourney. The Horizon League will rarely get at large bids until we start winning more non-con games.

But the expectations set by Bruce Pearl have gotten some people thinking pretty unrealistic when it comes to success at the Mid-Major level and with the budget and resources we have (I cannot wait to get out of the Klotsche).

God Bless Pearl- he made my '01-'05 UWM college experience one I will savor forever. And his BBQ recruiting lie is peanuts in light of what happened at Penn St. He will coach again- but I think you are pretty naive if you think it will be for us. Everyone wants the next Bruce Pearl, but it's not as easy a scouring the internet for resumes of people you just have a hunch are head and shoulders above Jeter (the grass is always greener..*).

My "The Dream" blog post was not a shot at him- it was literally the transcription of a dream my cousin told me that he had the night following the UALR game (and he doesn't follow Panther Hoops- he just comes to a few games here and there with me when he is in town- he didn't even know the Panthers played that night- I am superstitious (sometimes to a fault), and I think his dream actually had some meaning behind it).

The scent and the bones are '03-'06. The man in the jungle hut is Bruce Pearl. Let's stop trying to beat the dead horse of comparing Jeter to a coach who is not our coach anymore. Let's put a new stamp on the great thing that is Milwaukee Panther Hoops.

I hope it's the NCAA Tourney. If not this year, then next. If not then....? Well, then you can post all the resumes you want and maybe a new AD will take interest. Until then though- you are kidding yourself. We are not Marquette or Duke.

We are Milwaukee. And if this team can get their act together- I think once again, we can overachieve relative to the resources we are limited to.

I can tell you one thing- if Jeter does take us back to the NCAA Promised Land... he's gone. Audi 5000. You could chalk it up to his character vs. Brad Stevens character, but I'd say it would be due to a lot of crazy expectations and criticism heaped upon him by a fan base that is stuck in the year 2005.

I wish we could be proud of our team, celebrate the steady progress, show some support and not act like we are 0-31 every season under Jeter.

Not every Mid-Major is blessed with a genius like Brad Stevens or Shaka Smart or Bob McKillips. In fact- the number of those teams is probably under 5 (and the Mid-Majors comprise the vast majority of college hoops teams).

Maybe we could lure the pmck away from Toledo and back to the Horizon League? Yeah. I think I might be on to something with that one...

GO PANTHERS.

[Deleted]

* And... here is our past and current coaches' record dating back to 1964. You tell me if Jeter is under-performing as badly as so many of us think:

1963-64 Ray Krzoska 3-18 .143 WSCC
1964-65 Ray Krzoska 9-14 .391 Independent
1965-66 Ray Krzoska 15-10 .600 Independent
1966-67 Ray Krzoska 14-11 .560 Independent
1967-68 Ray Krzoska 16-11 .593 Independent
1968-69 Ray Krzoska 15-11 .577 Independent
1969-70 Ray Krzoska 14-12 .538 Independent
1970-71 Charles Parsley 13-10 .565 Independent
1971-72 Charles Parsley 15-11 .577 Independent
1972-73 Charles Parsley 18-8 .692 Independent
1973-74 Bill Klucas 14-12 .538 Independent
1974-75 Bill Klucas 8-18 .308 Independent
1975-76 Bob Gottlieb 11-15 .423 Independent
1976-77 Bob Gottlieb 19-8 .704 Independent
1977-78 Bob Gottlieb 15-12 .556 Independent
1978-79 Bob Gottlieb 8-18 .308 Independent
1979-80 Bob Gottlieb 9-17 .346 Independent
1980-81 Bob Voight 13-13 .500 Independent
1981-82 Bob Voight 20-6 .769 Independent
1982-83 Bob Voight 18-6 .750 Independent
1983-84 Ray Swetalla 6-20 .231 Independent
1984-85 Ray Swetalla 9-17 .346 Independent
1985-86 Ray Swetalla 10-17 .370 Independent
1986-87 Ray Swetalla 8-20 .286 Independent
1987-88 Steve Antrim 16-12 .571 Independent
1988-89 Steve Antrim 24-7 .774 Independent
1989-90 Steve Antrim 10-18 .357 Independent
1990-91 Steve Antrim 18-10 .643 Independent
1991-92 Steve Antrim 20-8 .714 Independent
1992-93 Steve Antrim 23-4 .852 Independent
1993-94 Steve Antrim 10-17 .370 Mid-Con
1994-95 Steve Antrim 3-24 .111 MCC
1995-96 Ric Cobb 9-18 .333 MCC
1996-97 Ric Cobb 8-20 .286 MCC
1997-98 Ric Cobb 3-24 .111 MCC
1998-99 Ric Cobb 8-19 .296 MCC
1999-00 Bo Ryan 15-14 .517 MCC
2000-01 Bo Ryan 15-13 .536 MCC
2001-02 Bruce Pearl 16-13 .552 Horizon
2002-03 Bruce Pearl 24-8 .750 Horizon
2003-04 Bruce Pearl 20-11 .645 Horizon
2004-05 Bruce Pearl 26-6 .813 Horizon
2005-06 Rob Jeter 22-9 .710 Horizon
2006-07 Rob Jeter 9-22 .290 Horizon
2007-08 Rob Jeter 14-16 .467 Horizon
2008-09 Rob Jeter 17-14 .548 Horizon
2009-10 Rob Jeter 20-14 .588 Horizon
2010-11 Rob Jeter 19-14 .576 Horizon
2011-12 Rob Jeter 20-14 .588 Horizon

....I'll give a big nod to Antrim (he beat Bucky!!), but some of these other coaches with records of +5 games over .500 weren't playing ranked Marquette, Wisconsin and a Butler program that will be written about in countless future college basketball books. A Butler program that we swept in the regular season just 2 short years ago...

Just take the long view. Just once- and you might see that it's not as simple as "Arrrrrghhhh!! Fire Jeter!!!". I'm done. Let the few depressive posts after losses and swallowed pride silence after victories resume.

[apaladino]

It's not just the losses, it's the way they have lost. They have been run out of gyms by teams that shouldn't run anyone out of gyms.

It's not just the losses, it's the lack of a signature win. Outside of Butler, what win can
jeter hang his hat on? We lost to Parkside once and should have lost this year. Parkside should be our Colgate.

It's not just the losses, it's the thinning fan base. You are in desperate need of support, and the people that care about the program are dropping like flies.

It's not just the losses, it's the lack of a cheerleader for this program. Jeter hasn't shown me that he cares enough to recruit new fans to the games.

Together this is ample reason to get rid of him. This program hasn't shown improvement. The grass may not be greener, but something needs to be done, or we won't have to worry about needing a new arena.

[yuhayden]

Nov 26, 2012 19:46:43 GMT -6 bigcatlover said:

I, too, have wondered about Kelm's lethargy and missed opportunities.
But occasionally he has a really good game.
Does anyone have any insight about his erratic play?

I, too, have wondered about Kelm's (THE TEAM'S) lethargy and missed opportunities.
But occasionally he (THEY) has (HAVE) a really good game.
Does anyone have any insight about his (THEIR) erratic play?

Hmmmm...

[yuhayden]

Nov 27, 2012 0:32:30 GMT -6 @victorpanther said:

* And... here is our past and current coaches' record dating back to 1964. You tell me if Jeter is under-performing as badly as so many of us think:

1963-64 Ray Krzoska 3-18 .143 WSCC
1964-65 Ray Krzoska 9-14 .391 Independent
1965-66 Ray Krzoska 15-10 .600 Independent
1966-67 Ray Krzoska 14-11 .560 Independent
1967-68 Ray Krzoska 16-11 .593 Independent
1968-69 Ray Krzoska 15-11 .577 Independent
1969-70 Ray Krzoska 14-12 .538 Independent
1970-71 Charles Parsley 13-10 .565 Independent
1971-72 Charles Parsley 15-11 .577 Independent
1972-73 Charles Parsley 18-8 .692 Independent
1973-74 Bill Klucas 14-12 .538 Independent
1974-75 Bill Klucas 8-18 .308 Independent
1975-76 Bob Gottlieb 11-15 .423 Independent
1976-77 Bob Gottlieb 19-8 .704 Independent
1977-78 Bob Gottlieb 15-12 .556 Independent
1978-79 Bob Gottlieb 8-18 .308 Independent
1979-80 Bob Gottlieb 9-17 .346 Independent
1980-81 Bob Voight 13-13 .500 Independent
1981-82 Bob Voight 20-6 .769 Independent
1982-83 Bob Voight 18-6 .750 Independent
1983-84 Ray Swetalla 6-20 .231 Independent
1984-85 Ray Swetalla 9-17 .346 Independent
1985-86 Ray Swetalla 10-17 .370 Independent
1986-87 Ray Swetalla 8-20 .286 Independent
1987-88 Steve Antrim 16-12 .571 Independent
1988-89 Steve Antrim 24-7 .774 Independent
1989-90 Steve Antrim 10-18 .357 Independent
1990-91 Steve Antrim 18-10 .643 Independent
1991-92 Steve Antrim 20-8 .714 Independent
1992-93 Steve Antrim 23-4 .852 Independent
1993-94 Steve Antrim 10-17 .370 Mid-Con
1994-95 Steve Antrim 3-24 .111 MCC
1995-96 Ric Cobb 9-18 .333 MCC
1996-97 Ric Cobb 8-20 .286 MCC
1997-98 Ric Cobb 3-24 .111 MCC
1998-99 Ric Cobb 8-19 .296 MCC
1999-00 Bo Ryan 15-14 .517 MCC
2000-01 Bo Ryan 15-13 .536 MCC
2001-02 Bruce Pearl 16-13 .552 Horizon
2002-03 Bruce Pearl 24-8 .750 Horizon
2003-04 Bruce Pearl 20-11 .645 Horizon
2004-05 Bruce Pearl 26-6 .813 Horizon
2005-06 Rob Jeter 22-9 .710 Horizon
2006-07 Rob Jeter 9-22 .290 Horizon
2007-08 Rob Jeter 14-16 .467 Horizon
2008-09 Rob Jeter 17-14 .548 Horizon
2009-10 Rob Jeter 20-14 .588 Horizon
2010-11 Rob Jeter 19-14 .576 Horizon
2011-12 Rob Jeter 20-14 .588 Horizon

....I'll give a big nod to Antrim (he beat Bucky!!), but some of these other coaches with records of +5 games over .500 weren't playing ranked Marquette, Wisconsin and a Butler program that will be written about in countless future college basketball books. A Butler program that we swept in the regular season just 2 short years ago...

Just take the long view. Just once- and you might see that it's not as simple as "Arrrrrghhhh!! Fire Jeter!!!". I'm done. Let the few depressive posts after losses and swallowed pride silence after victories resume.

Yes! I agree. You should all know your place. UWM has been mediocre to bad in the past so that should be good enough now. You are giving all those past generations of fans who were happy with sub .500 records a bad name!

[uwm97]

Victor:

Nobody is calling for Jeter to be fired because we all know that won't happen until a permanent AD is in place. That isn't the point. This is: every year with this guy is pretty much the same. The team sucks until January, plays some decent ball in conference, then ends the season with a stinker in the HL tournament. We've reached the tourney final ONCE in the last six years. There hasn't been a single post-season victory since he had Bruce's players. All this for the highest-paid coach in the league? Again, I find it sad you think this is good enough.

[The Green Gull]

As a program that’s still considered an upstart in the Division 1 ranks with a meager and dwindling fan base we need a coach who is a program builder. We need a coach that is charismatic and dynamic and who engages students, alumni and fans. Here’s attributes of what an upstart program who is trying to build enthusiasm and passion among its community should have in its coach:

• Excellent Sales Person
• Relentless Promoter
• Dynamic Personality
• Great Ambassador
• Terrific Recruiter

Unfortunately, Rob Jeter does not match these qualities.

[ghostofdylan]

Nov 27, 2012 0:22:54 GMT -6 @victorpanther said:

Celebrate the steady progress.

At the moment, I'm guessing that there aren't many at the party.

[Deleted]

At least people are talking again!

I agree that Coach Jeter isn't the magnanimous salsesman that Bruce Pearl was (though I don't know if any coach in the history of college hoops was as big a promoter as Bruce was).

Most coaches don't have to worry about that. Yes, Jeter comes from Bo's great Madison program and so one would think that's why he isn't used to having to stand on tables in the Sandburg cafeteria and Union to get people interested in Milwaukee Hoops.

But Bo wasn't always at Wisconsin. And Platteville wasn't always great (as they were when Jeter led them to a D-III title). And Jeter was Bo's assistent in Milwaukee before they moved to Madison. I wasn't here when they were coaching here for 2 years (was Jeter here for both years or just 1?).

But from what I've heard, Bo's brief tenure is what really jump-started the program and set the stage for a wizard like Pearl to work his magic. Maybe Pearl could have done it all by himself- but it probably would have been a bit harder without Bo and his assistant Rob Jeter turning around what had been a laughingstock of a basketball program.

So Jeter knows at least something about building a fan base. Maybe he just needs to remember his roots (Platteville and UWM pre-Pearl). I don't know and I don't think anyone has the answers. We do know however, that unless we have a T. Boone Pickens come out of the woodwork to buyout Jeter's contract, nothing is changing.

If the people who want Jeter gone so badly were logical, they would be praying that we win as many games as possible and at least get to the NIT (I'm still holding out hope for a HLT Championship Victory and a trip to the Dance- conference hasn't started yet, and none of the teams in our league look unbeatable). Because that- is that only way Jeter is leaving before 2015.

Laugh all you want, but I honestly believe Jeter is a lot better coach than he is given credit for. Great? (his turnaround in 2011 certainly was). But no, not great (not yet). He's an above average coach, though. I realize that isn't good enough for any of us (myself included). We were picked 6th in the League this season for a reason. If Jeter can turn things around, people will change their tune.

If not, well then some will grumble and then most people will go silent. Without good results, we will continue to lose interest and the few die-hards we have left. I totally understand that. I just think it's early. Sometimes you have to fall hard to learn how to not go down. With as many new players as we have, outside of Harrsma, Gulley (hasn't played yet) and Hags- who has played big D-I minutes before? This might be the case. 'Least I am trying to delude myself into thinking so. I guess we will see if anything has changed since last Monday at UALR this coming Saturday...

I am not happy with the way things have gone since '05-'06 season (except the 2011 Spring run- that was pretty fun to follow). But there is still time to turn things around in a big way. I just don't understand why people talk as if the season is already over. Valparaiso, IN, Jan. 21st, 2011. Our record at that point in the season: 9-11 (4-5). We got blown out of the ARC, 60-43. But then something happened....

Who's to say it can't happen again- and this time earlier than Jan. 21st? And this time- with an ending more befitting of the teams we look back upon with such pride and reverence. If the fans quit on the team, then the team can either be inspired to prove the fans that they are better than 2-4 (with 3 unacceptably bad losses) or, they can.... quit. Please, please let it be the former!

Ya never do know until it's all over... That's why they play the games.

GO PANTHERS.


EDIT: I remembered a quote that is fitting for this conversation From the king of all snarksters, Ambrose Bierce (1842-1913): "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."

I am definitely an eternal optimist. But in the context of this quote I fall somewhere in the middle. I know we are not in the best possible position as a basketball program. But I do not fear that we can't get a lot better over the next 25+ games and that we have no prayer of winning the Title- this time, the Title that really matters (the HLT variety).

[dutchpthr]

I agree victor, unless some unknown big money donor comes in we will not see a change in the coaching position, and that is fine we have to play with what we have, I am all for that and i think most here are able to see the reality of the situation we are in as a program, as many have stated and will continue to state we are no position to be making massive changes like a coaching change anytime soon.

I understand that point that you are making about the 2011 season turnaround, but i guess this is my feeling and i think one that is shared by many as well (while i think the "well you must be ok with mediocrity" argument is not as simple and plain as some try to make it) why do we always have to wait around until late January to see a team play with some fight and some determination, why cant we start our seasons that way rather then come out and look lackadaisical and unsure about what is going on at times and get run out the gyms on others. Im not saying we should always start out undefeated every single year and i am realistic to think this is not possible but I also do not think that we should be losing games to Rider, Jacksonville and UALR and teams like that either. We should be much better then them right away and not have to wait until half the season is over to get things going.

Yes there is a huge hole that Paris is leaving open, but I also do not understand why we do not have any depth to our roster, we have a multitude of young and what we were told capable players so that these kinds of situations should not be as disheartening as they are. I mean at this rate it is gonna be another 30 pt loss to Madison this year, and if we had Marquette on the schedule i would bet it would be another game where we give up 100 to them and get blown out by at least 25, just based off the way this years team has played since the huge win over Davidson....if nothing else i wonder what happened to that team that beat Davidson, did they forget to take them with on the road trip or was that just a happy accident early in the year??

Victor is right there are no easy answers here and there will not be any massive changes anytime soon and that is the reality of it, but i don't think that doesn't mean that we are not allowed to ask question about the direction and the perception or our program either, that is all i am really trying to do, just trying to figure out where and what we are, all things that fans should be asking but those are also things that I would have thought were already decided by those who are running the program already and not by the end of January like seems to annually be the case.....

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2012 13:11:15 GMT -6 dutchpthr said:

I agree victor, unless some unknown big money donor comes in we will not see a change in the coaching position, and that is fine we have to play with what we have, I am all for that and i think most here are able to see the reality of the situation we are in as a program, as many have stated and will continue to state we are no position to be making massive changes like a coaching change anytime soon.

I understand that point that you are making about the 2011 season turnaround, but i guess this is my feeling and i think one that is shared by many as well (while i think the "well you must be ok with mediocrity" argument is not as simple and plain as some try to make it) why do we always have to wait around until late January to see a team play with some fight and some determination, why cant we start our seasons that way rather then come out and look lackadaisical and unsure about what is going on at times and get run out the gyms on others. Im not saying we should always start out undefeated every single year and i am realistic to think this is not possible but I also do not think that we should be losing games to Rider, Jacksonville and UALR and teams like that either. We should be much better then them right away and not have to wait until half the season is over to get things going.

Yes there is a huge hole that Paris is leaving open, but I also do not understand why we do not have any depth to our roster, we have a multitude of young and what we were told capable players so that these kinds of situations should not be as disheartening as they are. I mean at this rate it is gonna be another 30 pt loss to Madison this year, and if we had Marquette on the schedule i would bet it would be another game where we give up 100 to them and get blown out by at least 25, just based off the way this years team has played since the huge win over Davidson....if nothing else i wonder what happened to that team that beat Davidson, did they forget to take them with on the road trip or was that just a happy accident early in the year??

Victor is right there are no easy answers here and there will not be any massive changes anytime soon and that is the reality of it, but i don't think that doesn't mean that we are not allowed to ask question about the direction and the perception or our program either, that is all i am really trying to do, just trying to figure out where and what we are, all things that fans should be asking but those are also things that I would have thought were already decided by those who are running the program already and not by the end of January like seems to annually be the case.....

Right on, dutchpthr. I agree with 100% of your observations/opinion of the current state of affairs. I don't "mean" to say people can't criticize what started out as a beautiful sailboat and quickly turned into a train wreck after the Davidson game...

We always seem to start seasons falling hard and "figuring things out" until conference rolls around. A lot of other teams do too- but very few of those teams have much of a chance to reach a meaningful post-season Tourney (I am not at all in favor of the CIT and CBI... or the "Bracketbusters" mockery for that matter. Before we know it we will be seeing Toledo vs. SEIU-Edwardsville in the "Doritos Consolation Classic" before March Madness.. lol).

I just think some of the talk is going a little overboard so early in the season. I would expect to see a lot of these posts in the off-season after a 1st Rd. Home Loss in the HLT (pray God that doesn't happen).

Maybe there is yet a silver lining to our new-found struggling-storm-cloud overhead that has soaked what hope we had after Davidson.... 'Sure hope so.

[dutchpthr]

Nov 27, 2012 13:32:28 GMT -6 @victorpanther said:

We always seem to start seasons falling hard and "figuring things out" until conference rolls around. A lot of other teams do too- but very few of those teams have much of a chance to reach a meaningful post-season Tourney (I am not at all in favor of the CIT and CBI... or the "Bracketbusters" mockery for that matter. Before we know it we will be seeing Toledo vs. SEIU-Edwardsville in the "Doritos Consolation Classic" before March Madness.. lol).

I just think some of the talk is going a little overboard so early in the season. I would expect to see a lot of these posts in the off-season after a 1st Rd. Home Loss in the HLT (pray God that doesn't happen).

Maybe there is yet a silver lining to our new-found struggling-storm-cloud overhead that has soaked what hope we had after Davidson.... 'Sure hope so.

Preach on brother! haha, I'm with ya!