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Post by loveyouso on Jan 20, 2012 21:22:21 GMT -6
To make Matters worse CSU looked good. THey allowed UWGB to hang around too long, But CSU up by 9 with less than a minute to go.
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Post by jayh on Jan 20, 2012 22:16:00 GMT -6
So with the conference season about half over, is Youngstown State for real? I know there was talk awhile ago on this board about how Youngstown should be dropped from the Horizon League (which I tended to agree with), but now they are only a game out of first place. I haven't seen them play all year, so I cannot say if it's a fluke or not.
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Post by PantherU on Jan 20, 2012 22:55:07 GMT -6
Here's the deal. If Youngstown State wins its final 10 and goes 15-3 in conference, wins the HL Tournament and goes to the NCAAs, I'm still in favor of removing them from the conference.
It's not that YSU can't win. They should have won at least 6 games last year in conference when they won 2. But the university, fundamentally, is a bad fit for the Horizon League.
It is, primarily, a football school. As well they should be. The other two schools, Butler and Valpo, are primarily basketball schools who only have D-I football because the NCAA would no longer let them play D-III. YSU is all about football, which is the way they should be because football is the king of sports.
However, the Horizon League is a conference that is first and foremost about men's basketball. Having one team in the conference with different priorities throws things off whack. This is why YSU is worst or near the bottom in numbers that people don't glean from the box score but make a big difference in an athletic department - attendance, budget, recruiting budget, coaching salaries.
Basically, Slocum has finally found a nucleus that can win together, and kept them together. For the last decade, so many kids have left YSU's program because they hate it there. They lost kids this past year too (among them Devonte Maymon, surprise), but they were "addition by subtraction" as Slocum himself has said.
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Post by mcdadenets50 on Jan 21, 2012 7:55:19 GMT -6
No Evan Richard? Hurt? Sick? Buried on the bench?
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Jan 21, 2012 8:16:00 GMT -6
No Evan Richard? Hurt? Sick? Buried on the bench? It's his back. |
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Post by uwmfansince1997 on Jan 21, 2012 8:37:25 GMT -6
What the heck is up with Meier? I think he lost his confidence out there.
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Post by FTA1982 on Jan 21, 2012 10:37:28 GMT -6
I'm in favor of dropping them only because it seems Milwaukee always has problems playing at their gym. Dating back to the Pearl days, it seems like Milwaukee has played a bunch of "close" against the so called bottom feeder of the league.
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Post by BBFran on Jan 21, 2012 11:32:08 GMT -6
The result didn't surprise me. We won by the skin of our teeth there last year. YSU has a good squad.
That said, I was still impressed that we never flinched in the game. Our team has mental toughness, and that will stand us in good stead throughout the remainder of the season.
Now let's see if we can steal one from CSU.
P.S. It's no palace, but it's still frustrating to see that YSU, a football school as Jimmy noted, has a facility like the Beeghly when we have nothing. Especially when there's nobody there to watch a game.
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Post by PantherU on Jan 21, 2012 11:35:40 GMT -6
Probably worth noting that the football team paid for Beeghly, but I won't bring that argument back.
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Post by uwmfansince1997 on Jan 21, 2012 12:04:49 GMT -6
Also, don't forget to toss in the "Super Bowl Effect". I"m sure you asking yourself what the hell is this clown talking about? When ever we play, Butler and I can't believe I'm saying it as of late...CSU..., everyone's gunnin for us. We're the cream of the league, we're the teams that compete for the HL title the last decade of so....and most importantly, when the others have nothing to play for at the end of the year.. why not play spoiler. But this is not to be mistaken with the fact that they actually might of played a fairly decent game.
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Post by thepantherfan on Jan 21, 2012 12:10:35 GMT -6
I have to agree with the a lot of the posters on this board that the FT shooting is something we must come to accept (as much as we don't want to, and as reasonable as it is to expect at least average FT shooting from college athletes). I'll be the first to admit that early on in the season, I thought we'd improve from the FT line as the season progressed, and definitely thought we'd shoot 65% or better for the season. I've been dead-wrong...
It's the simple fact that the players logging the most minutes and taking the most FT attempts are not good FT shooters. I also agree that it's not something Jeter can fix. He's been saying all year long that they are trying to address the issue, but you can't simply change a players 15+ years of FT shooting experience overnight.
I can say with absolute certainty that players with the heart, work ethic, and winning attitudes of a Kaylon Williams, James Haarsma, and Ryan Allen wish they were better FT shooters, and are working at it. Its just not happening for these guys this year.
So it seems that poor FT shooting will be the constant this year, and we just need to overcome that deficiency with other means of offensive productivity and defensive prowess.
I'm very proud of the team this year, and am trying my hardest not to let tough road losses like this make me lose sight of the fact that we are 6-2 in the Horizon (with both losses on the road, and games that came down to the wire) and that is something to still be happy about.
WAR PANTHERS!!!!!!
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Post by skrapheap on Jan 21, 2012 12:56:00 GMT -6
UWM's free throw numbers... 10/11: 65.5% (283) |
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Post by PANTHERfan on Jan 21, 2012 15:34:21 GMT -6
Whatever the reasoning for the abysmal free throw shooting, by my count this is the third L that could have easily been a W with only an average free-throw percentage: Wisconsin, Butler, and now YSU. It's baffling really. To play the defensive they've played, you need mental toughness and concentration --- essentially the same ingredients required for good free throw shooting.
Oh well, on to CSU. This is an important game for many reasons. I hope the Panthers decide to play 40 minutes in this one, cause that's what it will take to secure a win.
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Post by jjysuwin on Jan 22, 2012 10:03:28 GMT -6
Here's the deal. If Youngstown State wins its final 10 and goes 15-3 in conference, wins the HL Tournament and goes to the NCAAs, I'm still in favor of removing them from the conference. It's not that YSU can't win. They should have won at least 6 games last year in conference when they won 2. But the university, fundamentally, is a bad fit for the Horizon League. It is, primarily, a football school. As well they should be. The other two schools, Butler and Valpo, are primarily basketball schools who only have D-I football because the NCAA would no longer let them play D-III. YSU is all about football, which is the way they should be because football is the king of sports. However, the Horizon League is a conference that is first and foremost about men's basketball. Having one team in the conference with different priorities throws things off whack. This is why YSU is worst or near the bottom in numbers that people don't glean from the box score but make a big difference in an athletic department - attendance, budget, recruiting budget, coaching salaries. Basically, Slocum has finally found a nucleus that can win together, and kept them together. For the last decade, so many kids have left YSU's program because they hate it there. They lost kids this past year too (among them Devonte Maymon, surprise), but they were "addition by subtraction" as Slocum himself has said. I agree a lot with what you say, and disagree with a good number as well. The players who left, did not do so because they hated it in Youngstown. The majority of players who left were JUCOs and either couldn't stay out of trouble, or couldn't keep up their grades. Other players who left, did so because they flat out stunk and weren't going to play. YSU is actually a pretty nice urban campus with good student support and a decent night life. When I talk to coaches they say the biggest challenge is getting a recruit to come to Youngstown just because the sterotype. But once they get a kid to campus, the majority of the time, the kids commit because the campus pretty much sales itself. But it's just getting over that Youngstown sterotype, which is relevant, but vastly over exaggerated. The people who left, or at least the ones I know personally, enjoyed it here and didn't want to leave. They left because they had to. You are right that YSU is a football school, and should be. The Youngstown area is not so great in producing basketball talent. However YSU can recruit two high schools, half a mile from the campus and get some of the best talent in the country, football wise. There's maybe one division I basketball talent every two years in the Ytown area, but about 40 division I football recruits every year. Just on that case alone you can see why they're a football school. Two reasons YSU and the Horizon can't part ways. One being Youngstown offers them decent media exposure. 5 TV stations in Youngstown, two newspapers, 60 minutes from both Cleveland and Pittsburgh. It's pretty good coverage. The other from a facility standpoint. Every athletic facility can host conference events. They're building a new soccer, softball and track and field stadiums and just completed an indoor facility which is the only one of its kind in the HL. Youngstown fans don't really like being in the Horizon League, because none of the schools outside of Cleveland Sate and Valpo really mean much to them. It was great playing Milwaukee when they were going to the sweet 16, but the game doesn't mean much to the fans now. They'd rather go to Beeghly to see teams like Ohio, Akron, Kent, Toledo, BGSU even if the talent on those teams aren't as good as the what the HL offers. But Kent and Akron will never in a million years let Ytown football in the MAC, YSU would get eaten alive if they joined the Missouri Valley for all sports, the NEC is a joke and the OVC is well out of range. Youngstown fans don't really like the Horizon League and they realize the HL doesn't like them. But both sides need one another, and until Akron or Kent change their mind about letting them into the MAC, they will always be in the conference. |
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Post by PantherU on Jan 22, 2012 12:22:35 GMT -6
First off, welcome to our board! It's always great to hear from fans of other programs in the conference. It gives us perspective. Now, sorry to nitpick, but you opened a can of worms, a can that is very well versed in this topic. The players who left, did not do so because they hated it in Youngstown. The majority of players who left were JUCOs and either couldn't stay out of trouble, or couldn't keep up their grades. Other players who left, did so because they flat out stunk and weren't going to play Players leave for all sorts of reasons. Most of them have to do with the coaching staff, playing time (as you said), or trouble. I think you'd be naive if you'd assume that all of them were so. Just like here, when our defections of 2007-08 came from trouble (Torre Johnson), grades and a dislike for college (Tim Flowers and Kevin Johnson), and a wish to be closer to family (Roman Gentry), the truth is that certain players just don't like to be at the school they're at (Brad Carroll). YSU is actually a pretty nice urban campus with good student support and a decent night life. When I talk to coaches they say the biggest challenge is getting a recruit to come to Youngstown just because the sterotype. But once they get a kid to campus, the majority of the time, the kids commit because the campus pretty much sales itself. But it's just getting over that Youngstown stereotype, which is relevant, but vastly over exaggerated. The people who left, or at least the ones I know personally, enjoyed it here and didn't want to leave. They left because they had to. So a majority of players who visit your campus commit? Again, I don't argue that for football; I know that the WATTS and stadium are great facilities. But I'd be surprised if a majority of basketball players brought in commit. Of course, Slocum may be bringing in players who otherwise wouldn't sniff D-I, like Cale Zuiker. You are right that YSU is a football school, and should be. The Youngstown area is not so great in producing basketball talent. However YSU can recruit two high schools, half a mile from the campus and get some of the best talent in the country, football wise. There's maybe one division I basketball talent every two years in the Ytown area, but about 40 division I football recruits every year. Just on that case alone you can see why they're a football school. I don't think any of us need to be convinced why YSU is a football school. It is in Ohio, one of the four hotbed states for football talent. To hear that a D-I team can be built largely out of area high schools is not surprising either. Two reasons YSU and the Horizon can't part ways. One being Youngstown offers them decent media exposure. 5 TV stations in Youngstown, two newspapers, 60 minutes from both Cleveland and Pittsburgh. It's pretty good coverage. The other from a facility standpoint. Every athletic facility can host conference events. They're building a new soccer, softball and track and field stadiums and just completed an indoor facility which is the only one of its kind in the HL. The new stadiums are nice, but WATTS has almost nothing to do with the Horizon League. Ever since conference realignment began a couple years ago, people keep putting up television markets and media exposure. YSU, while within a short drive from both Cleveland and Pittsburgh, has nothing to do with either. There is no beat writer for YSU sports at either city's newspaper. The television stations do not discuss YSU basketball results, and the local TV stations in each city do not display YSU basketball games. Youngstown fans don't really like being in the Horizon League, because none of the schools outside of Cleveland Sate and Valpo really mean much to them. It was great playing Milwaukee when they were going to the sweet 16, but the game doesn't mean much to the fans now. They'd rather go to Beeghly to see teams like Ohio, Akron, Kent, Toledo, BGSU even if the talent on those teams aren't as good as the what the HL offers. But Kent and Akron will never in a million years let Ytown football in the MAC, YSU would get eaten alive if they joined the Missouri Valley for all sports, the NEC is a joke and the OVC is well out of range. You can talk about the NEC being a joke all you want, but I think YSU fans, on the whole, would prefer going to the NCAA Tournament regularly and the administration would prefer the travel costs of the NEC to those in the Horizon. I understand the MAC won't take you and the MVC is far away, but these aren't your only options. America East, the Patriot League, and the MAAC all offer better levels of competition and geographic location. The Summit offers a better level of competition for YSU as well. Youngstown fans don't really like the Horizon League and they realize the HL doesn't like them. But both sides need one another, and until Akron or Kent change their mind about letting them into the MAC, they will always be in the conference. The only reason the Horizon League needs YSU is because if the Penguins were to leave, we'd be down to five baseball members and not enough teams to field a conference. Keep in mind that this came about when Cleveland State cut its own baseball program, following last year. |
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