Refs

[PantherU]

The refs did not lose us this game. We lost it by poor outside shooting and a lack of touches in the post; their double-teaming of Hill made our players too shy to throw it into Anthony.

The foul situation was in our favor. An educated basketball fan - like coach Graves at Butler for instance - will know that Anthony Hill gets fouled every time he touches the ball in the post. He said as much on Saturday to a group of our fans.

But I'm not worried about the refs and their impact on the outcome of the game.

What I am worried about is the League's decision to put Chris Beaver and Lamar Simpson, two referees who have a considerably negative history with Milwaukee, in this game.

It is my opinion that neither school, Butler or Milwaukee, should have to go into the championship game and see even one referee that they have a documented negative history with. Tonight, Milwaukee ran into two.

I know we've had complaints with Lamar and Lamont Simpson, Chris Beaver, and Tim Hutchison. Why is it, when four of 30 referees the Horizon League uses have a bad history with one team, are they officiating the biggest game of the year, and it involves that team?

There was a point during the weekend when I made mention to a League official that it is common knowledge among our fan base that the Simpsons and Beaver are bad for our program.

Butler is 14-0 in games officiated by Beaver since 2007. Milwaukee is 4-9. Obviously, Butler has been the better team over that period. But many of the losses Milwaukee sustained were to teams that finished below them in the conference standings.

The guy is bad news for Milwaukee.

I haven't watched tonight's game over yet. I have in my mind several questionable calls, but in the heat of the moment there's a high possibility I'm wrong.

My question is why are these guys even in the building if they have such a negative history with one of the schools involved?

One of the things any ref knows is that you know you're a good ref when no one notices you. To many in our fan base, seeing one of the Simpsons or Chris Beaver causes us to call in to Vegas and put money on the other team.

These are the guys the conference wants officiating the title game?

[Super King]

Indy.

[ghostofdylan]

Mar 9, 2011 1:53:55 GMT -6 PantherU said:

What I am worried about is the league's decision to put Chris Beaver and Lamar Simpson, two referees who have a considerably negative history with Milwaukee, in this game. These are the guys the conference wants officiating the title game?

This is all I'm saying.

With the exception of a couple minutes of the second half, the Panthers flat-out couldn't have played much worse.

But the presence of these officials for a game of this magnitude give it an icky feel.

[eddiec]

Mar 9, 2011 1:55:53 GMT -6 Super King said:

Indy.

I actually thought LeCrone would go for a Milwaukee win and two NCAA bids ... I guess I was wrong and he decided to dictate a Butler win.

Now for an honest question ... are there actually refs that Jeter gets along with? No matter who the refs are, he seems to spend way more time complaining about calls than most coaches. Am I wrong on that?

[tyrunner0097]

How hard would it be to just have for the championship game refs that work in another conference, and are not from either Wis or Indiana? This is probably a layman's perspective, but I think it would be so much simpler....

[PantherU]

Mar 9, 2011 5:54:33 GMT -6 eddiec said:

Mar 9, 2011 1:55:53 GMT -6 Super King said:

Indy.

I actually thought LeCrone would go for a Milwaukee win and two NCAA bids ... I guess I was wrong and he decided to dictate a Butler win.

Now for an honest question ... are there actually refs that Jeter gets along with? No matter who the refs are, he seems to spend way more time complaining about calls than most coaches. Am I wrong on that?

Absolutely. Pete Yuzenas, Mike Roberts, Bert Smith, Archibald Whaley, Rick Hartzell (who was at the game last night).

I don't think anybody was chosen to win. Butler won by playing a much better basketball game. But the Horizon League should know better than to send Lamar Simpson and Chris Beaver into a championship game involving Milwaukee.

[uwmfansince1997]

The refs don't hopefully intentionally call a bad game/call to benefit one or another team. But, you can't argue that a bad/awful/horrific call can destroy the momentum or pace of a game. A team trying to keep the lead or make a comeback can have a difficult time if the refs try to determine there interpretation on what they feel is going in the game.

[milwsport]

I'm not saying that these guys threw the game for Butler. Refs have their styles just like teams do. It was way too physical in the post last night. It seemed like guys had their hands all over Hill every time he tried to shoot. The refs seemed to have more of a let them play hard attitude than some other refs would have had.

In the end that hurt us more than it hurt them.

[mwu]

There were so many reach-ins and over-the-back calls that could have been made last night.

The other side of this was that when we saw that those calls weren't going to be made we needed to step up the hitting and we didn't.

[gman2]

Big Ten coaches use to complain all the time about Dick Bennet's teams committing a ton of fouls and only getting called for a fraction. I believe the same goes for Bo's teams. You play physical and hope only a fraction get called. Push the limits as much as you can. Maybe Brad learned from Bo?

I'd bet if you closely watch a replay of this game you would find that bad calls were pretty even on both sides.

[Super King]

Mar 9, 2011 5:54:33 GMT -6 eddiec said:

Mar 9, 2011 1:55:53 GMT -6 Super King said:

Indy.

I actually thought LeCrone would go for a Milwaukee win and two NCAA bids ... I guess I was wrong and he decided to dictate a Butler win

You have to remember the UWM factor.

[skrapheap]

i was just amazed that the officiating crew didn't look up at the scoreboard, see that they had called many fewer fouls on Milwaukee than on Butler, and decide they had to even things up.

If i had a nickel for every time i've seen an HL officiating crew do that, my ticket for last night's game would have been paid off, with enough to spare for dinner.

[Super King]

I dunno, after Milwaukee hit the bonus in the second half all the calls started going Butler's way. Smith got away with reach after reach with four fouls on his card.

[zvillehaze]

Mar 9, 2011 16:07:07 GMT -6 Super King said:

I dunno, after Milwaukee hit the bonus in the second half all the calls started going Butler's way. Smith got away with reach after reach with four fouls on his card.

And since the Milwaukee bonus light lit up at the 11:23 mark of the 2nd half (when UWM had only 1 team foul), that left a lot of time for the officials to screw Milwaukee and attempt to even things up. They did a decent job ... the 2x differential in FTA wasn't as embarrassing as the 4x advantage UWM had on Saturday. In hindsight, maybe the Valpo game set the expectations in FT differential a bit too high ... to the point that 2x seemed like a hose job.

I'll plead ignorance on my next point, but isn't it likely that officials for the final game were assigned well before the HL knew who the participants were? (If they were hired on Monday, please call me out as stupid). I don't really think that the participating teams should have any input into determining who the refs are, and it doesn't seem fair to the officials to ask 10 or 12 guys to keep Tuesday night open because "we might need you to ref, unless one of the teams has a coach/fan base that doesn't like you".

The bottom line is you beat Butler fair and square twice this year ... if you want to blame the refs for the one Butler win, have at it. I thought you guys were above that, but I understand the disappointment. Good luck in the NIT ... hope the team embraces the opportunity and plays like we've seen they can play.

[vusupporter]

This thread after Saturday = hilarious. No more did refs lose you the game last night than they helped you win on Saturday.

I'll plead ignorance on my next point, but isn't it likely that officials for the final game were assigned well before the HL knew who the participants were?

This is the case. They were assigned before the start of the tournament.