Refs

[damasa]

Mar 9, 2011 21:07:05 GMT -6 zvillehaze said:

Mar 9, 2011 16:07:07 GMT -6 Super King said:

I dunno, after Milwaukee hit the bonus in the second half all the calls started going Butler's way. Smith got away with reach after reach with four fouls on his card.

And since the Milwaukee bonus light lit up at the 11:23 mark of the 2nd half (when UWM had only 1 team foul), that left a lot of time for the officials to screw Milwaukee and attempt to even things up. They did a decent job ... the 2x differential in FTA wasn't as embarrassing as the 4x advantage UWM had on Saturday. In hindsight, maybe the Valpo game set the expectations in FT differential a bit too high ... to the point that 2x seemed like a hose job.

I'll plead ignorance on my next point, but isn't it likely that officials for the final game were assigned well before the HL knew who the participants were? (If they were hired on Monday, please call me out as stupid). I don't really think that the participating teams should have any input into determining who the refs are, and it doesn't seem fair to the officials to ask 10 or 12 guys to keep Tuesday night open because "we might need you to ref, unless one of the teams has a coach/fan base that doesn't like you".

The bottom line is you beat Butler fair and square twice this year ... if you want to blame the refs for the one Butler win, have at it. I thought you guys were above that, but I understand the disappointment. Good luck in the NIT ... hope the team embraces the opportunity and plays like we've seen they can play.

zvillehaze: Don't mind the two or so people who think the refs had it in for Milwaukee (it's generally the same attitude for a number of the same people). The overwhelming majority of us know Butler was a much better team last night, end of story. Good luck in the tourney and win as many games as possible.

Vusupporter: Exactly, Butler beat Milwaukee and Milwaukee beat Valpo because of better play, not refs.

[gman2]

Count me as one Milwaukee fan embarrassed by this thread, I would like to think that we as a fan base we can be above this kind of discussion.

[blackcatinorange]

Lamar Simpson is a complete jack ass. It made me sick to my stomach when I saw him come out on the court. He and I have had a few "interactions" in the past, and it would make me sick to see him walk out and ref at my son's 6th grade basketball game. I know it takes two to tangle, but I just don't have any respect for him. I'm sure he doesn't care for me either.......

[ghostofdylan]

I'll bet Beaver, the Simpsons -- Bart and Lisa -- and their referee buddies are having a good laugh over all this.

[milwsport]

Sorry but you can't tell me that if the game would have been called the same way the Valpo game was, the same way the other two games against Butler were, it would have definitely had the same result.

Allowing a lot of physical play in the paint was definitely to one teams' advantage. Yes they were consistent in their calls (and non calls) but those calls (and non calls) took away much of our offense while leaving Butler's mostly intact.

That's how the game works. You have to rise above it and unfortunately, the Panthers weren't able to do that.

[PantherU]

Ugh. Maybe I should have been clearer. I didn't start this thread to be a bash the refs thread.

I started this to question why the Horizon League would assign Beaver and Simpson to a game this important when they have severely bad histories with one of the teams involved.

It doesn't matter if it's Butler or Milwaukee, neither team should see referees with that kind of record.

[DunneDeal]

Just because I listened to Bill Johnson all season I'll chime in here...

Bill would always bash the HECK out of Chris Beaver. Call him horrible both ways, with so many non-calls and inconstancy. Even the Dawg Pound were chanting "These Refs Suck" and "Be Consistent"

With that being said, Beaver should not have been in that game, but we also should have seen Beaver and knew this was coming (maybe we did).

But I agree with someone earlier, when the refs are inconsistent both ways its hard to let the game get into a flow, and I feel Butler's game is better suited for that type of play.

We lost the game..not the Refs

[ghostofdylan]

Mar 10, 2011 7:51:42 GMT -6 DunneDeal said:

We should have seen Beaver and knew this was coming (maybe we did).

... and done what? Sent him a Candygram?

[PantherLou]

I honestly think that Chris Beaver is the worst official in the league. He constantly is out of position, makes calls that are not his responsibility, and IMO, takes too much control over the flow of the game.

However, Rick Hartzell is without question the best that we see. He was the lead guy Tuesday night and on 2 occasions overruled Beaver's call. He kept the game fair and balanced.

Lamar Simpson is a weak official, but to suggest that he (or Chris Beaver for that matter) have personal agendas is ridiculous. T

Overall, the officials had exactly ZERO impact on this game. Butler played better, we played worse, they won. End of story.

[PantherLou]

As a further referee discussion-

The reason why this league struggles to get higher quality officiating is simple: We don't pay enough. The more you pay, the more you can get the best officials. I have no idea if the league has any interest in changing this, but until we pay more, you are going to see a lot more of the same officials.

But even paying top dollar doesn't guarantee excellence. Case in point: St. Johns vs Rutgers yesterday.

Referees are human. I LOVE to yell at at them. But the reality is: its a hell of a lot more difficult that anyone here realizes*.

*If you are or were a referee, then you can attest to this.

[skrapheap]

Mar 10, 2011 10:46:44 GMT -6 PantherLou said:

But the reality is: its a hell of a lot more difficult that anyone here realizes*.

*If you are or were a referee, then you can attest to this.

No one has claimed the job was or is easy.

What i don't understand is what is so freaking difficult about being consistent in your calls.

If you're calling fouls on one end of the court, you should be calling the same fouls for the same actions on the other end of the court. If you're calling fouls at the beginning of the game, you should be calling the same fouls on the same actions at the end of the game.

If you're going to take a "let them play" approach, then you should be letting both sides play.

And i am not referring specifically to Tuesday night's game. This is a gripe i have had against HL officials for years.

If it's a matter of paying better to get higher quality referees, then the Horizon League ought to pay better.

[Rawls]

Mar 10, 2011 11:16:27 GMT -6 skrapheap said:

Mar 10, 2011 10:46:44 GMT -6 PantherLou said:

But the reality is: its a hell of a lot more difficult that anyone here realizes*.

*If you are or were a referee, then you can attest to this.

No one has claimed the job was or is easy.

What i don't understand is what is so freaking difficult about being consistent in your calls.

If you're calling fouls on one end of the court, you should be calling the same fouls for the same actions on the other end of the court. If you're calling fouls at the beginning of the game, you should be calling the same fouls on the same actions at the end of the game.

If you're going to take a "let them play" approach, then you should be letting both sides play.

And i am not referring specifically to Tuesday night's game. This is a gripe i have had against HL officials for years.

If it's a matter of paying better to get higher quality referees, then the Horizon League ought to pay better.

Amen.

[ghostofdylan]

This, I think, is a good punctuation mark for this discussion.

As Jackie Chiles once famously said, "Let's move on!"

[skrapheap]

Mar 10, 2011 12:08:51 GMT -6 ghostofdylan said:

This, I think, is a good punctuation mark for this discussion.

As Jackie Chiles once famously said, "Let's move on!"

Dunno about that. i haven't aired all my gripes

[brewtownbrian]

Mar 10, 2011 10:46:44 GMT -6 PantherLou said:

The reason why this league struggles to get higher quality officiating is simple: We don't pay enough. The more you pay, the more you can get the best officials. I have no idea if the league has any interest in changing this, but until we pay more, you are going to see a lot more of the same officials.

I have seen the same refs for HL games on TV the next night or 2 nights later calling BCS conference games....?