SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Mar 20, 2016 16:07:05 GMT -6
I'm as disgusted as anyone with how Amanda has handled her job, and her treatment of our MBB players. But why are some people all of a sudden letting this cloud their judgment? Firing Jeter ASAP was by far the long term best thing for the program, regardless of who did it or how they did it. I do understand that Jeter has a few very vocal supporters on here that would have always supported him, regardless of the length of time or amount of 5th place finishes (happy "5th Placer" fans). And the reaction from the media who spend 364 days a year ignoring this program and therefore know nothing about it other than "Oh they won 20 games this year, what a surprising firing!" is also very expected. I'd like to pose an honest question to all the Milwaukee Panther fans who are not blind Amanda haters, or personally shilling for Rob Jeter (that means this question is not for you Jimmy and Fran).... is this the record of a coach you are suggesting should not have been fired? SALARY: 1st in the Horizon League RECORD: In 11 seasons, exactly .500 vs Division I, while playing an average OOC SOS of 200th (or worse depending on your metric) for 11 years. RESULTS: -Average finishing position of 5th place in the HL over 11 years. -One (!) top-2 HL finish in the last ten years (5 years ago). -Just one other top-3 HL finish in the last ten (4 years ago). -One NCAA tournament in the last ten years. -Three consecutive 5th place finishes in the HL (2014-2015-2016). No matter who did the firing, and no matter how sh*tty they handled it.... is this the resume of a coach who should not have been fired ASAP? The fact that some people are using statements from other people, people who know so little about the MKE program, to defend their position on this firing.... shows me just how weak that position is. (See: Lena Taylor's insane quote stating that Rob was "just as successful as his predecessor".) Bottom line: if you're unhappy with Amanda Braun as an A.D., good for you, you should be. But if you are using that to be critical of her decision to fire a mediocre, insanely overpaid coach, you're at best someone whose judgment is easily clouded by personal favoritism and emotions, and at worst, a happy '5th Placer' Milwaukee Panther "fan". Jimmy and Fran, in your answers to my post that I specifically asked everyone but you for (but you will respond to anyways with Jeter apologism, Amanda bashing deflection, and general excuse making for long term mediocrity) please include who you think was distracting or sabotaging our perennial 5th place coach all the years before Amanda arrived. Do not say it had to do with a lack of continuity at the A.D. position, because at this point we all can see how much that helped him keep his job and large salary for far longer than he deserved. Also, please include no critical thoughts regarding his resume posted above. But if you do, please follow them up with further equivocations and Jeter apologism. Thank you both. Signed -- former student section leader, 9 year season ticket holder, and proud non-5th Placer fan, Jason Kuks.
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uwm80
Redshirt
Support UWM Athletics!
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Post by uwm80 on Mar 20, 2016 21:02:16 GMT -6
Your analysis is pretty much spot on. I just think Amanda has muddied the water so much, that a good coach will not want to come here and have to report to her.
Jeter's time was up. He had eleven years to prove himself with, at best, mixed results.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 20, 2016 21:42:28 GMT -6
I'm confused. Am I supposed to respond or not supposed to respond?
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Post by PantherU on Mar 20, 2016 23:09:27 GMT -6
I'm as disgusted as anyone with how Amanda has handled her job, and her treatment of our MBB players. But why are some people all of a sudden letting this cloud their judgment? Firing Jeter ASAP was by far the long term best thing for the program, regardless of who did it or how they did it. I do understand that Jeter has a few very vocal supporters on here that would have always supported him, regardless of the length of time or amount of 5th place finishes (happy "5th Placer" fans). And the reaction from the media who spend 364 days a year ignoring this program and therefore know nothing about it other than "Oh they won 20 games this year, what a surprising firing!" is also very expected. I'd like to pose an honest question to all the Milwaukee Panther fans who are not blind Amanda haters, or personally shilling for Rob Jeter (that means this question is not for you Jimmy and Fran).... is this the record of a coach you are suggesting should not have been fired? SALARY: 1st in the Horizon League RECORD: In 11 seasons, exactly .500 vs Division I, while playing an average OOC SOS of 200th (or worse depending on your metric) for 11 years. RESULTS: -Average finishing position of 5th place in the HL over 11 years. -One (!) top-2 HL finish in the last ten years (5 years ago). -Just one other top-3 HL finish in the last ten (4 years ago). -One NCAA tournament in the last ten years. -Three consecutive 5th place finishes in the HL (2014-2015-2016). No matter who did the firing, and no matter how sh*tty they handled it.... is this the resume of a coach who should not have been fired ASAP? The fact that some people are using statements from other people, people who know so little about the MKE program, to defend their position on this firing.... shows me just how weak that position is. (See: Lena Taylor's insane quote stating that Rob was "just as successful as his predecessor".) Bottom line: if you're unhappy with Amanda Braun as an A.D., good for you, you should be. But if you are using that to be critical of her decision to fire a mediocre, insanely overpaid coach, you're at best someone whose judgment is easily clouded by personal favoritism and emotions, and at worst, a happy '5th Placer' Milwaukee Panther "fan". Jimmy and Fran, in your answers to my post that I specifically asked everyone but you for (but you will respond to anyways with Jeter apologism, Amanda bashing deflection, and general excuse making for long term mediocrity) please include who you think was distracting or sabotaging our perennial 5th place coach all the years before Amanda arrived. Do not say it had to do with a lack of continuity at the A.D. position, because at this point we all can see how much that helped him keep his job and large salary for far longer than he deserved. Also, please include no critical thoughts regarding his resume posted above. But if you do, please follow them up with further equivocations and Jeter apologism. Thank you both. Signed -- former student section leader, 9 year season ticket holder, and proud non-5th Placer fan, Jason Kuks. All right, tongue-in-cheek response aside, I'll actually respond to this. 1. Rob Jeter is no longer the basketball coach. So I don't know whose judgment is being clouded, or about what subject. Jeter isn't the coach, so naturally the concern shifts to the remaining face of the athletic department. I mean, I'm quite literally Rob's biggest supporter and I knew we were looking at one year remaining at best. So why are we focused on Rob at all? He's gotten his walking papers, and he has walked away in the classiest way he could. He and his staff haven't said one thing against Braun, publicly or privately (at least to me). You say you're disgusted with Amanda, but in a way that makes me wonder if you really are. 2. How the firing was handled is absolutely relevant. The biggest donors of this program had no interest in spending the roughly half-a-million to have the coach walk away one year earlier than the end of his contract. So the funding for the firing is extremely relevant. Where did the money come from? With tens of millions of cuts going to the university, how do they justify spending 500k (let's just call it 500k for now) for Jeter to sit home and 60k for Boudreau to sit home? If you wanna blame anyone, blame the university for not putting a buyout clause in the contract. If money came from other sports' budgets, or from donations without the knowledge of the donors, or from other parts of the university, that's a massive scandal focused on the impropriety of the athletic director, which would have a much bigger negative impact on the program than letting a lame duck coach run out the clock on his contract. 3. Speaking of those donors, they've remained steadfastly loyal to Jeter all these years, just as they were loyal to Bud Haidet and loyal to Bruce Pearl, who had brought several of them in. Why is that? Is it because Rob is such a great guy? Or do they know things that you and I don't? I'm just guessing here, but I think several multi-million dollar donors probably have a better handle on things than we do. David Nicholas was so incensed about things that he was willing to put his name next to his quote in the local media. This is a guy who has given $7 million to the university over the years, the wide majority of it going to academics. That's a really, really important person to a university that's cutting tens of millions from its budget, and they just pissed him off very publicly to the tune of him cutting ties with his Alma mater based on Braun's decisions. If I pissed off the biggest financial backer of my company so publicly, I'd be given my walking papers. 4. I'm not being critical of her decision to move on from Jeter. I am critical of the incredibly bad way she bungled the job, then failed in a spectacular way at selling the decision to the media and the fans. How is she supposed to convince the best coach for the job to take a contract that is best for us when she can't even defend her own decisions of the past two weeks? She came off as clueless even in a softball interview with Bill Michaels. In every interview she has given since deciding not to take the CBI/CIT invites, she's said something that's easily refuted - not with inside information but with open, existing information. She's put words in our players' mouths at least twice. 5. Before Amanda arrived? Well we all know how Koonce had tried to spike the program. Were you happy or distraught when Geiger moved the team to the Klotsche Center? Was the team not supposed to react at all? Was recruiting supposed to get better when we were not only practicing in the worst situation in D-I, we were now playing games in that glorified high school gym? Costello spent his year trying to research new sports and repeating the same exact speech to donors no matter how many times they spoke. 6. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter for Jeter. Jeter's time is over here. There are major, major problems that need to be addressed to make sure the next guy doesn't have his own "5th-placers" (BTW get out of here with that BS). So that's why Braun is under the microscope. Like her predecessors, she didn't address the problems that held back the coaching staff, chief among them the practice situation. Fight for the practice facility, sure, but that's three years away from opening its doors. Why have none of these AD's addressed the problem? I don't know what the solution is - either you can get the chancellor to give the AD the authority to dictate use of the arena, or you could have put hoops in Engelmann Gym for the meantime - at least you could have before they put turf in there and made it an indoor practice space for soccer. It wouldn't have been good as a permanent space because of its size but it could have been at least a little help while the practice facility was being put together. And please, please do not compare Pearl with Jeter. Yes, Pearl had the same practice situation. Pearl also ran a bandit program here, whereas Jeter's staff remained 100% clean. Jeter did not succeed at the level we all wanted. But the next coach won't either if we don't address these yooooooooooge problems and give the program the support it needs to thrive.
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SRT4driver
Junior
We Are MILWAUKEE! And I'm all about accountability, unlike '5th Placer' Jeter apologists.
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Post by SRT4driver on Mar 21, 2016 0:54:05 GMT -6
Not much to debate here, other than these two minor points... There are major, major problems that need to be addressed to make sure the next guy doesn't have his own "5th-placers" (BTW get out of here with that BS). I agree, and have the exact same concerns that you do. But from this day forward as a Panther fan, I will be reserving the use of 5th-Placers for anyone who attempts to defend, excuse, or justify long term mediocrity. That includes Amanda Braun. Someone should have been saying it years ago. Better late than never IMO. You say you're disgusted with Amanda, but in a way that makes me wonder if you really are. You can get out of here with THAT cheapshot BS. Throwing around unfounded insinuations like that, all you accomplish is to reinforce what many already think of you - that you might be letting your personal feelings regarding Jeter and Braun affect your judgment regarding this program. Be better than that, Jimmy.
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Post by kingsteve on Mar 21, 2016 8:55:25 GMT -6
The whole thing is unfortunate and what is even more vexing is that this will haunt us for awhile. Last thing we needed was more instability, bad publicity etc...Now regarding Rob . Lets stop also making him out to be a saint. This is the guy that was ready after ONE YEAR to bolt . Then he recruited some really questionable people. You are talking about Pearl? ? How about Leneal Harris, drug dealer, Kevin Johnson, Torre Johnson , Tim Flowers, you don't call that running a bandit program? Then the academic ban. Who recruited such academic stalwarts as the Boga brothers and Jarob McCallum...lets get real. Rob has underachieved and I am not denying all the issues but on the other hand I have also witnessed time and time again mediocre to poor coaching, lack of discipline, academic issues, inordinate amount of players leaving the program ...same with Geiger...there are people here with revisionist history that now say he was a disaster but I remember these same people defending the move to Klotsche at first, the great enhancements to the Klotsche,($ a million dollars down the drain) . and hanging around Geiger sucking up to him....bottomline the whole last 10 years or so has been a blown opportunity and the primary blame has been the lack of institutional support for the athletic program and still is....that being said lots of mistakes in hiring including Koonce, Costello, BRAUN and others...I think Haidet jumped the gun and did a knee jerk thing hiring Rob and then the extensions....the biggest problem now has been BRAUN, not Rob although we need and change there too....just an ongoing saga... but lets not canonize Rob either...he has made a lot of money and delivered marginal results. Program is stale and we can do better. My only revisionist history here is that we should have hired Plinske.....there are too many old stale athletic board members like Phyllis (no relation) and others....and this is what we have gotten a...lot more of the same....I have been called a troll and maybe I am but at least I have been skeptical of Rob from the start and NEVBER a fan of Geiger or moving back to "Campus" for the student experience.....Now more than ever we need to pull together but with Braun here but more importantly the systemic issues ...well....regardless I will continue to support UWM athletics regardless....
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Post by uwm97 on Mar 21, 2016 10:38:43 GMT -6
While we're assigning blame, all those torching Braun have been silent in taking Mike Lovell to task. This bozo brought in Geiger AND Braun, yet let's all perform a circle jerk because he ran laps with the students at Klotsche. Give me a break. That guy is as culpable in this debacle as anyone.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 21, 2016 10:51:58 GMT -6
Go talk to Phyllis King who fought to bring Amanda Braun in.
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Mar 21, 2016 11:41:26 GMT -6
While we're assigning blame, all those torching Braun have been silent in taking Mike Lovell to task. This bozo brought in Geiger AND Braun, yet let's all perform a circle jerk because he ran laps with the students at Klotsche. Give me a break. That guy is as culpable in this debacle as anyone. I agree with this 100%
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Post by PantherU on Mar 21, 2016 14:04:59 GMT -6
Not much to debate here, other than these two minor points... There are major, major problems that need to be addressed to make sure the next guy doesn't have his own "5th-placers" (BTW get out of here with that BS). I agree, and have the exact same concerns that you do. But from this day forward as a Panther fan, I will be reserving the use of 5th-Placers for anyone who attempts to defend, excuse, or justify long term mediocrity. That includes Amanda Braun. Someone should have been saying it years ago. Better late than never IMO. You say you're disgusted with Amanda, but in a way that makes me wonder if you really are. You can get out of here with THAT cheapshot BS. Throwing around unfounded insinuations like that, all you accomplish is to reinforce what many already think of you - that you might be letting your personal feelings regarding Jeter and Braun affect your judgment regarding this program. Be better than that, Jimmy. I was only returning fire. You spent the grand majority of your post kicking at Jeter's coaching job, asking people if the "5th-placer" stuff was acceptable and singling out Fran and myself for defending Jeter in this. No one, including us, expected Rob to be here longer than March 2017. It's over. Jeter served this program and university with poise for over a decade; the least we can do is not nitpick him over his job performance. What's done it done. As far as personal feelings, I most definitely count Rob Jeter as a friend, as I do many people on this board that wanted him gone. But I wouldn't say I'm "shilling" for him, since we've only exchanged a couple texts since the season ended. And it wasn't marching orders or anything, simply me thanking him for everything over the years and him responding. As for Amanda, I've never had anything but polite conversations with her.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 21, 2016 14:06:04 GMT -6
Go talk to Phyllis King who fought to bring Amanda Braun in. I've never heard this before and it's now the second time you've brought it up. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested to know how the FAR comes into this.
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Post by repoman on Mar 21, 2016 14:50:01 GMT -6
I thought that when there is a coaching change, players are allowed to trasfer wherever they like and play right away. Am I mistaken? That's the way it would be if the NCAA gave a crap about players. I guess I don't feel as strongly about them waiting a year when a coach is fired but what bugs me is they have to sit out a year when the coach leaves for a better job.
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Post by MKEPanthers45 on Mar 21, 2016 16:22:05 GMT -6
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Post by uwm97 on Mar 21, 2016 16:42:34 GMT -6
Bullsh*t. He can't negotiate with anyone until Iowa St's season is over.
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Post by phoenixphan87 on Mar 21, 2016 16:44:36 GMT -6
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