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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 23, 2023 19:50:17 GMT -6
It feels like we need a big space-eater like Mike Marsh. The problem is that a lot of schools need a guy like Marsh. That’s fair, but how many of the schools reaching out to him have a familiar coach on the staff and a player or two he personally knows?
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 24, 2023 15:48:35 GMT -6
The problem is that a lot of schools need a guy like Marsh. That’s fair, but how many of the schools reaching out to him have a familiar coach on the staff and a player or two he personally knows? Probably quite a few, most of these guys keep a pretty big network from playing AAU ball.
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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 24, 2023 16:11:20 GMT -6
That’s fair, but how many of the schools reaching out to him have a familiar coach on the staff and a player or two he personally knows? Probably quite a few, most of these guys keep a pretty big network from playing AAU ball. Not talking AAU. A guy that coached him in JUCO is on our staff 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by mattg on Mar 24, 2023 22:10:50 GMT -6
Probably quite a few, most of these guys keep a pretty big network from playing AAU ball. Not talking AAU. A guy that coached him in JUCO is on our staff 🤷🏻♂️ Not saying that connection doesn't matter because I have no idea on their relationship whatsoever. BUT, I'd venture that like 95%+ of guys have closer relationships with their private/personal coaches and their AAU coaches who they spent years with growing up than they do their high school or JUCO coaches.
It'd be sick to get Marsh considering the hole in our roster though. Even though I have my reservations about him...9 total blocks in 2 years at low major level as a 6'10 center is absolutely pathetic.
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 25, 2023 12:24:15 GMT -6
Not talking AAU. A guy that coached him in JUCO is on our staff 🤷🏻♂️ Not saying that connection doesn't matter because I have no idea on their relationship whatsoever. BUT, I'd venture that like 95%+ of guys have closer relationships with their private/personal coaches and their AAU coaches who they spent years with growing up than they do their high school or JUCO coaches.
It'd be sick to get Marsh considering the hole in our roster though. Even though I have my reservations about him...9 total blocks in 2 years at low major level as a 6'10 center is absolutely pathetic.
Yeah if he can rebound he can play for us. Defensively he wont be a game changer though.
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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 25, 2023 14:04:49 GMT -6
Not saying that connection doesn't matter because I have no idea on their relationship whatsoever. BUT, I'd venture that like 95%+ of guys have closer relationships with their private/personal coaches and their AAU coaches who they spent years with growing up than they do their high school or JUCO coaches.
It'd be sick to get Marsh considering the hole in our roster though. Even though I have my reservations about him...9 total blocks in 2 years at low major level as a 6'10 center is absolutely pathetic.
Yeah if he can rebound he can play for us. Defensively he wont be a game changer though. I just have to laugh at the pessimistic tone of this post. If the coaching staff is trying to bring him in they believe he can be a game changer. Lol. Funny seeing these types of evaluations from fans. Did anyone think Ahmad was going to be as good as he was looking at his prior stats? No. So give this guy a shot for God’s sake.
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Post by mattg on Mar 25, 2023 17:03:37 GMT -6
Yeah if he can rebound he can play for us. Defensively he wont be a game changer though. I just have to laugh at the pessimistic tone of this post. If the coaching staff is trying to bring him in they believe he can be a game changer. Lol. Funny seeing these types of evaluations from fans. Did anyone think Ahmad was going to be as good as he was looking at his prior stats? No. So give this guy a shot for God’s sake. it's not pessimistic to point out Marsh's shortcomings defensively, it's just called being realistic (which a solid majority of posters here are incapable of being when it comes to our players or prospective players it seems). He could be a game changer as a rebounder or offensive piece while still being a complete nothing on defense for us. He played 3 times as many minutes as Rand did in 2 years, except at the low major level rather than power conference. 9 blocks total in 1200+ minutes is absolutely atrocious by any metric. That's the amount I'd expect out of a random 6' guard in that much playing time, not a 6'10 center (compare his stats to like Kentrell Pullian's for example). You can try and spin it however you like, but that's pathetic and concerning. Either Marsh is not even trying to contest shots, or he is always caught out of position because those are the 2 explanations for those shot blocking numbers.
Even still, as I said I'd still be excited to get him because we need size.
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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 25, 2023 21:01:40 GMT -6
I just have to laugh at the pessimistic tone of this post. If the coaching staff is trying to bring him in they believe he can be a game changer. Lol. Funny seeing these types of evaluations from fans. Did anyone think Ahmad was going to be as good as he was looking at his prior stats? No. So give this guy a shot for God’s sake. it's not pessimistic to point out Marsh's shortcomings defensively, it's just called being realistic (which a solid majority of posters here are incapable of being when it comes to our players or prospective players it seems). He could be a game changer as a rebounder or offensive piece while still being a complete nothing on defense for us. He played 3 times as many minutes as Rand did in 2 years, except at the low major level rather than power conference. 9 blocks total in 1200+ minutes is absolutely atrocious by any metric. That's the amount I'd expect out of a random 6' guard in that much playing time, not a 6'10 center (compare his stats to like Kentrell Pullian's for example). You can try and spin it however you like, but that's pathetic and concerning. Either Marsh is not even trying to contest shots, or he is always caught out of position because those are the 2 explanations for those shot blocking numbers.
Even still, as I said I'd still be excited to get him because we need size.
Defending him for that take is absolutely wild. The coaching staff knows a lot more than any of us about this guy and any recruit in general, so what makes us think his defense isn’t going to improve? He doesn’t have to be the DPOY like Ahmad but it sure would be nice to see him block some shots at a rate even half as high as Ahmad did. Moving forward I won’t be posting about recruits I hear about given most seem to want to comment negatively here on Mike. FYI you also can’t rely on those transfer portal report tweets, as we are not in on Michael Green/Cam Palesee. ✌️
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Post by mattg on Mar 25, 2023 21:34:17 GMT -6
it's not pessimistic to point out Marsh's shortcomings defensively, it's just called being realistic (which a solid majority of posters here are incapable of being when it comes to our players or prospective players it seems). He could be a game changer as a rebounder or offensive piece while still being a complete nothing on defense for us. He played 3 times as many minutes as Rand did in 2 years, except at the low major level rather than power conference. 9 blocks total in 1200+ minutes is absolutely atrocious by any metric. That's the amount I'd expect out of a random 6' guard in that much playing time, not a 6'10 center (compare his stats to like Kentrell Pullian's for example). You can try and spin it however you like, but that's pathetic and concerning. Either Marsh is not even trying to contest shots, or he is always caught out of position because those are the 2 explanations for those shot blocking numbers.
Even still, as I said I'd still be excited to get him because we need size.
Defending him for that take is absolutely wild. The coaching staff knows a lot more than any of us about this guy and any recruit in general, so what makes us think his defense isn’t going to improve? He doesn’t have to be the DPOY like Ahmad but it sure would be nice to see him block some shots at a rate even half as high as Ahmad did. Moving forward I won’t be posting about recruits I hear about given most seem to want to comment negatively here on Mike. FYI you also can’t rely on those transfer portal report tweets, as we are not in on Michael Green/Cam Palesee. ✌️ No, what is wild is that you don't seem to grasp super basic statistics in basketball. What you're suggesting literally has ZERO BASIS IN REALITY. 9 blocks in 1200+ minutes is staggeringly low and he has a block rate the same as most small guards. New coaching doesn't just change that. I didn't watch any Jacksonville games, but I can tell you with a number that low he is literally either just an absolutely abysmal positional defender who is never in the right spot, or flat out isn't even trying to contest (not block, just contest) shots. Blocks and steals are the most translatable stats even from NCAA to NBA, let alone low tier NCAA to other low tier NCAA. Also, other guys on his team have no issue blocking more shots than him (including 6'2 and 6'3 guards let alone other bigs) so it's hard to say it's some obscure coaching scheme/strategy that is being used and is limiting his numbers there.
Literally your take is "I have blind faith in the coaching staff to improve a guy massively in an area that he has shown zero ability or aptitude in whatsoever in a huge sample size". That's ridiculous, especially for a guy who has already played 4 years of college ball, he's no freshman. It'd be akin to saying "I think Zach Howell is going to be our starting 3+D PG this coming season with another year of coaching from Lundy and staff", there's no basis in reality for that. I even said it would be "sick" to land Marsh because we need size, but you'd have to be smoking crack to think he's gonna add to us defensively other than hopefully he helps shore up the defensive rebounding. He recorded 4 total blocks this entire season, to think he could approach a block rate half of Rand's is absurdly ludicrous considering Rand blocked shots at a rate 12 times as often as Marsh.
Granted, I'd love to be proven wrong if we landed Marsh, but this is ridiculous. It's like having an honest discussion about a player's strengths and weaknesses is forbidden. This started as me literally saying "it would be sick if we landed Marsh because we need size, but his block numbers are super concerning" and you've morphed it into like we are attacking the guys character and integrity as a human being or something by pointing that out.
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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 25, 2023 22:12:50 GMT -6
Defending him for that take is absolutely wild. The coaching staff knows a lot more than any of us about this guy and any recruit in general, so what makes us think his defense isn’t going to improve? He doesn’t have to be the DPOY like Ahmad but it sure would be nice to see him block some shots at a rate even half as high as Ahmad did. Moving forward I won’t be posting about recruits I hear about given most seem to want to comment negatively here on Mike. FYI you also can’t rely on those transfer portal report tweets, as we are not in on Michael Green/Cam Palesee. ✌️ No, what is wild is that you don't seem to grasp super basic statistics in basketball. What you're suggesting literally has ZERO BASIS IN REALITY. 9 blocks in 1200+ minutes is staggeringly low and he has a block rate the same as most small guards. New coaching doesn't just change that. I didn't watch any Jacksonville games, but I can tell you with a number that low he is literally either just an absolutely abysmal positional defender who is never in the right spot, or flat out isn't even trying to contest (not block, just contest) shots. Blocks and steals are the most translatable stats even from NCAA to NBA, let alone low tier NCAA to other low tier NCAA. Also, other guys on his team have no issue blocking more shots than him (including 6'2 and 6'3 guards let alone other bigs) so it's hard to say it's some obscure coaching scheme/strategy that is being used and is limiting his numbers there.
Literally your take is "I have blind faith in the coaching staff to improve a guy massively in an area that he has shown zero ability or aptitude in whatsoever in a huge sample size". That's ridiculous, especially for a guy who has already played 4 years of college ball, he's no freshman. It'd be akin to saying "I think Zach Howell is going to be our starting 3+D PG this coming season with another year of coaching from Lundy and staff", there's no basis in reality for that. I even said it would be "sick" to land Marsh because we need size, but you'd have to be smoking crack to think he's gonna add to us defensively other than hopefully he helps shore up the defensive rebounding. He recorded 4 total blocks this entire season, to think he could approach a block rate half of Rand's is absurdly ludicrous considering Rand blocked shots at a rate 12 times as often as Marsh.
Granted, I'd love to be proven wrong if we landed Marsh, but this is ridiculous. It's like having an honest discussion about a player's strengths and weaknesses is forbidden. This started as me literally saying "it would be sick if we landed Marsh because we need size, but his block numbers are super concerning" and you've morphed it into like we are attacking the guys character and integrity as a human being or something by pointing that out.
Have some optimism about the guys we are trying to recruit. Nobody is saying he’s a great defender but clearly if we are going as hard as it seems we are for him then the coaches believe he isn’t as bad as the numbers you reference might suggest. There’s a lot of centers in the portal we could go after that might have sexier block numbers, it’s important to keep that in mind too. And yes I have grown extremely tired of people talking poorly about players and potential recruits as of late. We just had a 22-win season and people are still finding ways to be skeptical about the future, granted a few of those wins had some luck involved. I believe the type of energy you put out there is what you receive back, and I’m always willing to give players a chance before writing them off. With that being said, have a good night 😁
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Post by TBone on Mar 26, 2023 6:49:39 GMT -6
I don't see any issues with being realistic as opposed to rosily optimistic about a recruit. The statistics for Marsh speak very loudly to his struggle to block shots and protect the rim. I would guess that Marsh himself would say he struggles with blocking shots, if he's anywhere remotely honest with himself.
BJ had 10 blocks in almost 1,000 minutes this year, surpassing Marsh in blocks per minute. KP had 6 blocks in 900 minutes, almost equaling Marsh's BPM. Markeith had 13 blocks in 800+ minutes, far surpassing Marsh's career numbers in BPM. JT had 19 blocks in 900 minutes. Jalen Johnson, who I would argue was our worst defender of the big three that typically played inside last year, had 16 blocks in 434 minutes. And we had a number of players (bigs and not-so-bigs) the year prior under Baldwin that easily surpassed Marsh in BPM as well, so it's not a matter of Coach Lundy and staff doing magical things to produce blocks.
Having said that, the staff is well aware of these statistics as well, and they know how other areas of his game would fit into the system they want to run.
My fears with Marsh have nothing to do with statistics (he has massively increased his free throw shooting btw) and everything to do with him being courted by far prettier girls. So we'll see either a) how good of salesmen the staff are and/or b) how much we really "had to have him".
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Post by Pantherholic on Mar 26, 2023 17:36:31 GMT -6
So if we're hoping for 2-3 more guys coming in to fill the voids, who's leaving? As of now, the roster is full.
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Post by Duct_Tape_Pounce on Mar 26, 2023 21:38:13 GMT -6
So if we're hoping for 2-3 more guys coming in to fill the voids, who's leaving? As of now, the roster is full. This is what is making me leery of getting too excited about these potential recruits. There is one scholarship player who really didn’t see the rotation last year, and another 1 or 2 who were definitely at the back end of the rotation, but I also don’t like the idea of Milwaukee forcing players off of scholarship. I also obviously don’t like the idea of losing key rotation players. I kinda want this year’s team to stay together as much as possible, from our top players to our scout team.
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Post by thetruth on Mar 27, 2023 6:32:35 GMT -6
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Post by Pantherholic on Mar 27, 2023 12:00:34 GMT -6
BJ tweeted this earlier. He also doesn’t have acknowledge the team in his profile at all. Not sure if that’s always been the case or not.
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