Great article about the impending loss of UIC to the MVC...

[apaladino]

Adding men and women's wrestling would be a great start.

You would have the immediate opportunity of being the best Women's program in the state and one of the best in the nation.

You can't say that about hockey.

[cure]

I get we were told to add softball 8-9 years ago, but I’m not sure that’s relevant today.

UIC is getting added for Chicago, so us having softball wouldn’t move the needle right now.

If they expand to 14, they’ll already have 12 schools. So numbers for softball won’t be important anymore (as opposed to when they had 9 schools after losing Creighton).

I think it just comes down to us getting back to where we were 10-20 years ago. If we did that, I can’t imagine softball would spoil our bid.

[Pantherholic]

Jan 15, 2022 23:23:49 GMT -6 cure said:

UIC is getting added for Chicago, so us having softball wouldn’t move the needle right now.

If they expand to 14, they’ll already have 12 schools. So numbers for softball won’t be important anymore (as opposed to when they had 9 schools after losing Creighton).

I think it just comes down to us getting back to where we were 10-20 years ago. If we did that, I can’t imagine softball would spoil our bid.

Completely false. One of the reasons MKE didn’t get in the last time was because of the lack of softball. Every other team in the conference has softball, including the newcomers. Even the other rumored schools - Omaha, KC & UT-Arlington all have softball. Coincidence? No. The Valley cares about softball. Our continued failures in basketball definitely continue to hurt us but the lack of softball in general is definitely a problem.

[PantherU]

Jan 16, 2022 0:24:43 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

Jan 15, 2022 23:23:49 GMT -6 cure said:

UIC is getting added for Chicago, so us having softball wouldn’t move the needle right now.

If they expand to 14, they’ll already have 12 schools. So numbers for softball won’t be important anymore (as opposed to when they had 9 schools after losing Creighton).

I think it just comes down to us getting back to where we were 10-20 years ago. If we did that, I can’t imagine softball would spoil our bid.

Completely false. One of the reasons MKE didn’t get in the last time was because of the lack of softball. Every other team in the conference has softball, including the newcomers. Even the other rumored schools - Omaha, KC & UT-Arlington all have softball. Coincidence? No. The Valley cares about softball. Our continued failures in basketball definitely continue to hurt us but the lack of softball in general is definitely a problem.

I'd just like to point out that picking a school based on whether or not they have softball is asinine and might have something to do with the MVC losing their standing over the last decade.

[SRT4driver]

Jan 16, 2022 1:11:38 GMT -6 PantherU said:

Jan 16, 2022 0:24:43 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

Completely false. One of the reasons MKE didn’t get in the last time was because of the lack of softball. Every other team in the conference has softball, including the newcomers. Even the other rumored schools - Omaha, KC & UT-Arlington all have softball. Coincidence? No. The Valley cares about softball. Our continued failures in basketball definitely continue to hurt us but the lack of softball in general is definitely a problem.

I'd just like to point out that picking a school based on whether or not they have softball is asinine and might have something to do with the MVC losing their standing over the last decade.

Agreed. But strangely, Pantherholic is right, and that's what they've cared about, which is why the Valley has been falling in MBB and why their last three best programs have run away from them (Creighton, Wichita State, and Loyola).

Seems like their administrators went to the same school of inept management as the Horizon League's administrators, caring and focusing on all of the wrong things, as a bureaucrat would.

[cure]

Jan 16, 2022 0:24:43 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

Jan 15, 2022 23:23:49 GMT -6 cure said:

UIC is getting added for Chicago, so us having softball wouldn’t move the needle right now.

If they expand to 14, they’ll already have 12 schools. So numbers for softball won’t be important anymore (as opposed to when they had 9 schools after losing Creighton).

I think it just comes down to us getting back to where we were 10-20 years ago. If we did that, I can’t imagine softball would spoil our bid.

Completely false. One of the reasons MKE didn’t get in the last time was because of the lack of softball. Every other team in the conference has softball, including the newcomers. Even the other rumored schools - Omaha, KC & UT-Arlington all have softball. Coincidence? No. The Valley cares about softball. Our continued failures in basketball definitely continue to hurt us but the lack of softball in general is definitely a problem.

I guess I just don’t understand why softball would be a dealbreaker. Not saying you’re wrong by any means, it just sounds absurd on their end.

Would they actually turn away Belmont if they didn’t have softball? That’s hard for me to imagine.

MVC also turned over commissioner and some administration in the past year, so I wonder if stuff they said in 2013 or 2017 might not apply today.

[SRT4driver]

Jan 16, 2022 12:34:53 GMT -6 cure said:

Jan 16, 2022 0:24:43 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

Completely false. One of the reasons MKE didn’t get in the last time was because of the lack of softball. Every other team in the conference has softball, including the newcomers. Even the other rumored schools - Omaha, KC & UT-Arlington all have softball. Coincidence? No. The Valley cares about softball. Our continued failures in basketball definitely continue to hurt us but the lack of softball in general is definitely a problem.

I guess I just don’t understand why softball would be a dealbreaker. Not saying you’re wrong by any means, it just sounds absurd on their end.

Would they actually turn away Belmont if they didn’t have softball? That’s hard for me to imagine.

MVC also turned over commissioner and some administration in the past year, so I wonder if stuff they said in 2013 or 2017 might not apply today.

Believe it or don't, but he knows what he's talking about, and he's not wrong. Yes, it's insanely stupid - and it's also true.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

I love college softball. Shocking to be a deal breaker in conference movement.

[PantherU]

Holic's right, I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying the MVC is stupid as hell for prioritizing softball.

[SRT4driver]

Jan 18, 2022 14:29:10 GMT -6 PantherU said:

Holic's right, I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying the MVC is stupid as hell for prioritizing softball.

Yes. And since our AD Amanda Braun has long known that the Valley has prioritized softball for new members, and has done nothing to add it to MKE's program, she has clearly shown she is an incompetent AD.

That means if she is kept, it's proof our university administration wants us to not be successful in athletics.

[SRT4driver]

Which by obvious extension means it's the UW System that wants MKE to not be successful in athletics, by keeping an AD as inept as Amanda Braun.

[SRT4driver]

Which of those things are true? I guess we'll find out soon when PBS and Amanda Braun's contracts are up.

[Duct_Tape_Pounce]

Can we stop with the notion that Amanda Braun is the main reason Milwaukee isn’t in the Missouri Valley Conference or any conference other than the Horizon League? I know she’s an easy punching bag on this board. And I’m certainly not thrilled with her tenure as AD, but when people make these kinds of statements, all it does for me is to make me realize how out there some anti-Amanda Braun people are.

Let’s look at this logically. In the past 20 years or so, there have been three expansions in the MVC. The first was in 2013. UWM wasn’t even a consideration. If I remember right, four programs were under consideration at that time: UIC, Loyola, Valparaiso, and I think Kansas City. The MVC went with a Chicago market program, Loyola. It had nothing to do with Loyola’s success on the court. If success on the court mattered, Valpo would have gotten the call. It had to do with the Chicago market (and apparently softball). Is it Amanda Braun’s fault that Milwaukee wasn’t even considered? No. She was still at Northeastern when this was all going on. If you want to blame somebody, there’s Andy Geiger, Rick Costello, George Koonce, Mike Lovell, and Rob Jeter. They were part of the program at the time, and none of them did anything to make UWM stand out.

Next go around, the MVC looks at four schools. If I remember right, they were Murray State, Valparaiso, Milwaukee, and Omaha. This was the lone time Milwaukee was an actual consideration, and believe it or not, Amanda Braun was the AD when this happened. It’s at least more reasonable to consider her a reason why Milwaukee wasn’t chosen, but they chose Valparaiso. Maybe it had to do with the fact that Valpo had a softball program. Maybe it had to do with the fact that Valpo isn’t far outside of Chicago. Maybe (probably) it had a lot more to do with the fact that Valpo was better at men’s basketball than Milwaukee. As a matter of fact, it’s pretty obvious that at the time, one could say Valparaiso’s success in men’s basketball exceeded anything Milwaukee had done since before Rob Jeter. So yeah, maybe Amanda Braun had some fault. But that fault is shared by Mark Mone, Mike Lovell, Andy Geiger, Rick Costello, George Koonce, and yes, Rob Jeter.

And now we look at this go around. It looks like the MVC is choosing two programs who are better now than Milwaukee had been since before Rob Jeter (Belmont and Murray State), along with a Chicago school to replace a former Horizon League Chicago school who had loads of success while in the MVC. Maybe softball is a reason that is happening. To me, it seems like the MVC is geared to consistent top mid major programs (something Milwaukee hasn’t been since Bruce Pearl) and Chicago schools. Amanda Braun carries some blame for the program’s lack of success in men’s basketball, to be sure. But the problems go back way before her. The previous ADs, PBS, Jeter, the chancellors, etc. are all to blame for this. The only time Milwaukee was even considered was when Amanda Braun was AD. I doubt they were a serious contender, but they weren’t even a contender before her.

As for the argument about “Why didn’t Amanda Braun just add a softball program?”… do you realize that UWM had funding in place for a basketball practice facility for so many years before they were allowed to start building it? Or that it was virtually impossible to build a D-1 baseball stadium to replace the outdated high school park they were using, and now resort to going to Franklin for home games? The state legislature would make it impossible for UWM to expand its athletics program. Milwaukee had a basketball practice facility financed entirely through a segregated fee and donations, and the state wouldn’t let them build it. Where would a Milwaukee softball team play? I’m not aware of any D-1 softball fields in the area.

Here’s the way I see it: if you want to blame Amanda Braun for the hiring of Pat Baldwin, that’s 100% fair. If you want to blame her for the awful way she dealt with firing Rob Jeter and the ensuing PR, that’s totally fair as well. If you think Amanda Braun is the sole reason why UWM is still in the Horizon League, I see that as somebody just looking for more ways to discredit her. It’s so much more convincing that she hasn’t done a good job when people don’t hold her to absolutely impossible standards.

[Spirit of Bruce]

Anyone who was close to the program in 2013 knows that was our best opportunity to jump to the MVC, and Geiger (who was installed by Jon LeCrone because of Mike Lovell's naiveté), who had earlier declared us a "roll-out bleacher school" and banished us to the Klotsche, didn't even give the MVC Commissioner's call a thought.

So, on this you're right. It isn't Braun's fault we aren't in The Valley. The fault was the same at that time that is present now: Incompetence in Chapman Hall.

Lovell was either dumb or lazy enough to hire LeCrone's golf buddy as AD at LeCrone's suggestion. Then, when it turns out to everyone that was an insanely stupid thing to do, instead of hiring the proven candidate from UW-Whitewater AGAIN, he hires Braun. You will never convince me she wasn't hired, continues her employment, and wins "awards of excellence" because of the "social justice" boxes she checks off. It certainly isn't because she's successful in her position, it's because Mark Mone is an aloof boob who can't pour a simple cup of coffee.

So yes, I will continue to bag on her, and I hope the rest do, too. SHE SUCKS AT HER JOB.

[ghostofdylan]

In 2019, the chancellor made more than the head men's basketball coach for the first time in nearly 20 years ... and I think that is illustrative of how this University presently prioritizes things.