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Post by Cactus Panther on May 14, 2021 10:37:45 GMT -6
Kevin Johnson, Tim Flowers, Charlie Swiggett, Ryan Thornton, Roman Gentry, Deonte Roberts, Kaylon Anderson just to name a few. Then you can add the Bogas and Ja'rob McCallum Rob's early struggles due to being a new head coach are also a big reason why we should heavily weigh previous head coaching success when we hire the next coach. I think the model for hiring that brought us Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl should be strongly considered whenever Baldwin is done here. You have stated previously you were on a search or selection committee at the time Jeter was hired. Was previous head coaching success identified as an important qualification at the time? It seemed like such a no brainer then. Too bad we had to destroy the momentum at that time to figure it out (although i have no confidence the decision makers for futuire head coaches have figured this out yet). As far as the hiring process is concerned, it will vary. Too bad there are no Jerry Colangelos at Milwaukee.
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Post by FTA1982 on May 14, 2021 11:10:42 GMT -6
Kevin Johnson, Tim Flowers, Charlie Swiggett, Ryan Thornton, Roman Gentry, Deonte Roberts, Kaylon Anderson just to name a few. Then you can add the Bogas and Ja'rob McCallum. Coach Jeter was the first to admit he was still trying to figure things out in the early years. I expect that's the same for most coaches with their first head coaching gig. It's also worth noting that there were a wide number of reasons for all those guys to leave the program. Roman Gentry left to be a father. We still consider him one of us. Ryan Thornton was just way too slow on his feet to really be dangerous in D-I, and he didn't take the strength and conditioning seriously or else he could have become an absolute monster as an upperclassman (his shot remains one of the fastest I've ever seen and it was accurate when he was on the floor for more than 10 seconds at a time), either here or at Bradley. Kevin Johnson and Tim Flowers had no interest in being college students and preferred to be in D-Rose's entourage when they were 18-19. Charlie Swiggett and Deonte Roberts both clashed with Jeter over their . Kaylon Anderson wasn't a D-I talent, and to this day it's a crapshoot with Canadians. Sometimes they can look like future LeBrons because there just isn't enough talent to adequately assess their skill level (*cough* WIGGINS *cough*). Rob's early struggles due to being a new head coach are also a big reason why we should heavily weigh previous head coaching success when we hire the next coach. I think the model for hiring that brought us Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl should be strongly considered whenever Baldwin is done here. I don't think we necessarily have to hire someone who has been a successful head coach, but in our experience in Division I we'd probably be better off going that route. I'd be curious to see how hiring works for everyone. Uh oh...I'm getting the itch to research. You basically confirmed what I was arguing in terms of Baldwin. People say by now, he should be recruiting better players. In year 3, Jeter was recruiting none D1 talent, guys that didn't want to be here and Ryan Thornton who was not a d1 kid either. I'll never forget Tyrone Young either. Woof. Plus Baldwin had zero momentum at the time of his hiring compared to Rob starting off with a team that just made the sweet 16 and most returning for his 1st year. Amanda has a ton to blame for why we are where we are, but Rob didnt do himself any favors either.
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Post by PantherU on May 14, 2021 13:38:54 GMT -6
Rob's early struggles due to being a new head coach are also a big reason why we should heavily weigh previous head coaching success when we hire the next coach. I think the model for hiring that brought us Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl should be strongly considered whenever Baldwin is done here. You have stated previously you were on a search or selection committee at the time Jeter was hired. Was previous head coaching success identified as an important qualification at the time? It seemed like such a no brainer then. Too bad we had to destroy the momentum at that time to figure it out (although i have no confidence the decision makers for future head coaches have figured this out yet). As far as the hiring process is concerned, it will vary. Too bad there are no Jerry Colangelos at Milwaukee. I was on the search and screen committee when George Koonce was hired. As far as I know, the university does not require a search and screen committee to hire a men's basketball coach. If they do, it should be much smaller than the AD committee - 3-5 people at most (1 faculty, 1 season ticket holder, 1 top 5-10 donor, the Deputy AD and a staff member), fewer formalities, no public screening or finalist process. Then the AD does their own due diligence and makes the call. I don't like the outside search firm. There are only ~350 of these jobs in the country, when there's an opening it's incredibly public and almost all the best candidates will come forward themselves if they'd be interested. I'd give Amanda Braun a D for the Pat Baldwin hire, an Incomplete for LaVall Jordan, a B for Jason Pothoff (tennis has been consistently decent), a D for Andrew Basler (T&F hasn't won sh*t since 2015 and he hasn't brought them back since being hired in 2018, and this was literally our strongest sport in the HL for decades), and an A+ for Troy Fabiano (women's soccer had one weak year in transition and he's literally been Coach of the Year ever since). So it's a mixed bag for hiring. I wanted David Nikolic for women's soccer but Fabiano has worked out beautifully. We're going to see who was truly right over the next few years since Nikolic got the head job at UIC. What's interesting is Braun has had plenty of patience for other coaches. Susie Johnson had a bunch of weak years (for a volleyball program that is used to winning titles practically every year) but coached them to a record-tying 26 victories this season. Scott Doffek has always had individual players become successful and they finally got a player into the majors (Daulton Varsho), but they haven't won a regular season title since 2013 and they haven't been to the tournament in 11 years. I don't blame Kyle Clements for swimming and diving falling off on the titles because Oakland was a national power before they came in and they've kept that going. All in all, Amanda's not Bud Haidet in terms of hiring and firing. That's not a knock on Amanda; Bud's only true failure in hiring a coach was when he hired Ric Cobb. Every other one was at least decent. If the coaches who reached out to me in the last couple months are any indication, Amanda is going to have a very strong pool of candidates to choose from when the job comes open.
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Post by PantherU on May 14, 2021 13:56:00 GMT -6
You basically confirmed what I was arguing in terms of Baldwin. People say by now, he should be recruiting better players. In year 3, Jeter was recruiting none D1 talent, guys that didn't want to be here and Ryan Thornton who was not a d1 kid either. I'll never forget Tyrone Young either. Woof. Plus Baldwin had zero momentum at the time of his hiring compared to Rob starting off with a team that just made the sweet 16 and most returning for his 1st year. Amanda has a ton to blame for why we are where we are, but Rob didnt do himself any favors either. I don't think Baldwin's problem is recruiting, Baldwin's problem is coaching. Of course that could change now that he doesn't have Paris Parham to help fill out the roster. I will never understand how some guys absolutely murder in practice and then freeze up when they get in the game. Tyrone Young might be the best example of that - every single practice I saw he looked like he could challenge Boo for his starting spot. Once he got in the game he just looked lost. Part of the problem with me overestimating guys coming into the program was that Chip was always a great salesman. Michael Tyler was the next Joah Tucker. Brad Carroll will have the best court vision of any point guard in the Horizon League. Evan Richard could lead the HL in scoring one day (and he'd always mention Evan's coach at Cuba City, Jerry Petitgoue). I'd go to a couple practices and I'd see the flashes of Chip's hyperbole in action and I'd commit to it on here. That's okay. When you're the VC/DoBo and the students are coming by to talk hoops, what are you gonna do? You're gonna sell the program and the players. On some level I was always a bit gullible, so if Chip went fishing I was usually biting on the bait. Eventually I learned, but hell I didn't really figure it out until around when I graduated.
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Post by buppie05 on May 14, 2021 14:52:02 GMT -6
BPU is 100% correct. PBS has had a learning curve on being a head coach (to put it politely , and I do think he is improving). PBS has never had a recruiting problem. He is recruiting very competent players IMO , especially considering he is recruiting to a program that has been down since 2014 (again, putting it politely). 4 star players aren’t walking through that door when you haven’t been to the tournament in years. He has done a great job IMO of finding good players to come here.
Not saying it’s just him, obviously asst coaches are a big part of the equation. Look at the freshmen who came in last year. Newby is a player who could develop into something very special. I expect big things from him next year. Most the freshmen on the team last year contributed. Our transfers like Dree and JT have the talent to play in better conferences than the horizon. We have guys like Lathon who we haven’t seen yet who are supposed to be good.
I really hope PBS comes out strong next year to match the level of talent his team has. I hope he takes a page from Porter Moser and runs the offense through PBJ similar to what they did with Krutwig. Run double screens to free up shooter and get clean looks etc.
Like I said previously, I don’t think this team needs much more in terms of talent. Maybe a guy or two with size to add depth, but that’s about it.
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Post by ghostofdylan on May 14, 2021 16:04:50 GMT -6
Administrative shortcomings notwithstanding, what does this program need for next season?
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Post by Cactus Panther on May 14, 2021 16:38:49 GMT -6
Thanks BPU. A major brain fart on my part as I knew the committee was for AD and not head coach. I guess I was confused in thinking otherwise this morning, as well as the correct spelling for the word "Asian."
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Post by BBFran on May 14, 2021 17:47:55 GMT -6
There’s an immense amount of revisionist history here as always, but so be it. We had a terrific roster of talent coming back in ‘16, which is why the program was blown up. Jordan and Baldwin failed entirely on their own, as to recruiting, retention, promotion, on court coaching (Jordan at least showed ability there), you name it.
I’m cautiously optimistic that we will have enough talent that we could finally take a run at a winning record next season. I just wish we had better coaching. If the coaching doesn’t change, I’m also quite concerned that next season could be our last winning season for years, as the talent will obviously fall off precipitously again after next March.
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on May 14, 2021 18:37:49 GMT -6
There’s an immense amount of revisionist history here as always, but so be it. We had a terrific roster of talent coming back in ‘16, which is why the program was blown up. Jordan and Baldwin failed entirely on their own, as to recruiting, retention, promotion, on court coaching (Jordan at least showed ability there), you name it. I’m cautiously optimistic that we will have enough talent that we could finally take a run at a winning record next season. I just wish we had better coaching. If the coaching doesn’t change, I’m also quite concerned that next season could be our last winning season for years, as the talent will obviously fall off precipitously again after next March. How dare you rain upon Buppie's alternate reality! For shame! 🤣
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Post by parkerj on May 14, 2021 20:51:18 GMT -6
I'd be curious to see how hiring works for everyone. Uh oh...I'm getting the itch to research. In terms of HL (leaving off the newbies and Oakland): Cleveland State: Waters (prior experience): hit. Felton (prior experience): MASSIVE flop, Gates (new): hit Detroit Mercy: McCallum (prior experience): mixed. Alexander (new): MASSIVE flop, Davis (prior experience): ...miss? mixed? IDK Green Bay: Darner (prior experience): so-so, Wardle (new): hit, pmck (new): mixed Milwaukee: PBS: miss, LaVall: Incomplete, RJ: mixed, BP: hit' NKU: Horn (prior experience) seems promising but TBD, Brannen (new): hit...but uh........ UIC: McClain (prior experience): miss, Moore (new): miss Wright State: Nagy (D-I success, no flop at a higher level): hit, Donlon (new) mixed, Brownell (D-I success, no flop at a higher level): hit YSU: Calhoun (prior experience): mixed, Slocum (prior experience): miss So the blueprint in the league seems to be "go hire a proven D-I coach who hasn't lost his luster". I'm for it if we can, but I think we need a backup
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Post by PantherU on May 15, 2021 8:42:39 GMT -6
I find it fascinating how Jeter’s tenure as the head coach of UWM is viewed by some on this board. In Jeter’s last 10 seasons as head coach at UWM, Jeter compiled an overall record of 162-161 and took UWM to only 1 NCAA tournament. In the sole NCAA tournament appearance in Jeter's last 10 seasons, UWM was a 15 seed and lost by 20 points in their opening round game. It was less about Jeter and more about the tornado tactics used to whoosh him out of here. Even Jeter's most ardent supporters (including myself) know 2016-17 was the best case scenario for his final year as head coach, and he had perhaps his best returning roster. Now that Amanda Braun has once again contradicted her own words (this time it's "Coaches are just not kept in the final year of their contract"), we know she could have let the clock run out on Jeter's contract, saved the university hundreds of thousands of dollars and literally had us in the same exact spot we are now. She also wouldn't have publicly committed career suicide. A lot of people and families suffered to remove Jeter one year early. Thankfully, a lot of people landed on their feet, but I'm sure you're at least familiar with how difficult things can be for a family if the breadwinner abruptly loses their job. This happened to a lot of people who weren't making Rob Jeter's near half-a-million-per-year salary. And that's just pushing people out of their jobs in the athletic department. There was a whole hell of a lot more that went on. I think if you polled the fan base on March 10th, 2016 (one week before he was fired), 85% of the fans would have been happy to move on to a different coach. It's like I said: it wasn't about Rob Jeter for the wide majority of people who were pissed off. And even for guys like me who supported Rob, losing him was only one small part of the problem. Your namesake Joe Klotsche would have never pulled the Machiavellian sh*t Amanda pulled. He was a great leader. I highly recommend reading his books. Most people will recommend The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee: An Urban University, but that's not the best insight into him as a person or the creation and fledgling years of the university. The best book is Confessions of an Educator, of which I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to discuss and should be required reading for alumni who care deeply about our alma mater. I've come to believe that Amanda learned from the experience of executing a terrible plan to accomplish a simple coaching change and the fallout from it. I don't forgive and I don't forget, but I'm happy to move on and focus on the program we have now. For better or worse, we're stuck with her for the time being.
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Post by BBFran on May 15, 2021 10:07:37 GMT -6
I find it fascinating how Jeter’s tenure as the head coach of UWM is viewed by some on this board. In Jeter’s last 10 seasons as head coach at UWM, Jeter compiled an overall record of 162-161 and took UWM to only 1 NCAA tournament. In the sole NCAA tournament appearance in Jeter's last 10 seasons, UWM was a 15 seed and lost by 20 points in their opening round game. Interesting cherrypicking. Almost like his first NCAA team didn't happen. But whatever. Baldwin is 47-70 in his first four years. Why wasn't he fired? Everybody knows why. His newly signed son. It's pathetic, but that's where we are as a program; utterly dependent on one kid who will probably be on campus for about 8 months total. Could be 7 if we flame out early in the HLT. Which, based on the last four years, doesn't seem impossible, does it? Is there any program building going on? Obviously not. Other than the fortunate son/father, our recruiting hasn't changed. Texas jucos, low D1/D2 transfers. Transients. The big kid we just got will literally be on his 6th school in 6 years in the US. It's less a basketball career than an extended road trip. You'll excuse me for chuckling when I saw the tweet posted that he was "100% Committed!" Yeah, just like all the others racing through PBS's revolving door roster. And unfortunately, no more phenom sons. People are excited by a couple Jr. signing splash articles in the JS. Let me know when the multi-year radio broadcast deal is announced. Sorry, Jimmy, it's going to take FAR more proof than you have offered to think that we are looking at anything more than a one year blip. The program still needs a complete clean sweep, starting at the top, no matter how blippy this year ends up. It will obviously have to wait a year. Let's see if the wait is worth it, or just another wasted year. P.S. I predict that we will see the jmartins of the world lowering expectations repeatedly.
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Post by PantherU on May 15, 2021 16:51:31 GMT -6
Sorry, Jimmy, it's going to take FAR more proof than you have offered to think that we are looking at anything more than a one year blip. The program still needs a complete clean sweep, starting at the top, no matter how blippy this year ends up. It will obviously have to wait a year. Let's see if the wait is worth it, or just another wasted year. I agree 100%. But while everyone wants to focus on the coaching staff or the athletic director, I think we should set our sights higher. We need cultural change at the university from the top down. This is why I'm hoping the team succeeds on a massively high level. There's only so much Amanda can do to change things for the better. Mark Mone's where things have to change. If the program succeeds in the tournament, I hope interest blows up exponentially. Mone needs to see that a lot of his problems - applications, enrollment, student engagement, student retention, community interest, development, AD income - are helped greatly by a nationally-prominent basketball program. Maybe he doesn't get it because he hasn't seen it happen in front of his own eyes. I know Mike Lovell had something of an awakening when he went to Marquette and suddenly there were "100 Jimmy Lemkes" in his inbox. I suspect a lot of those guys at Marquette actually have money to put into the university too. Or maybe it's as we know; after all, Mone kept things moving forward when Rob was fired. Did he know those donors were going to pull their millions in pledges before or after Rob was fired? I suppose that's the million dollar question. If he knew before, you can throw out any expectation things could get better if the team does something crazy. If he didn't know until after Rob was fired, I can see a guy like that breathlessly trying to pick up water off the pavement with his bare hands. We'll see! P.S. I predict that we will see the jmartins of the world lowering expectations repeatedly. I've set a reminder. Let's keep track of all the new "jmartin" newbies that come out of the woodwork. Should be fun.
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Post by BBFran on May 15, 2021 17:59:25 GMT -6
Jimmy, you know I agree about how important a successful men’s BB program could be (and has been) for our University. Unfortunately, having watched our institution’s attitude towards and support for athletics wax but mostly wane for nearly 50 years, I’m far less sanguine about there being any significant improvement, irrespective of whether we make the tournament next year or win a game in it.
That said, if people have some fun nights next winter watching the team, that’s good. With luck it will be the best season since ‘16. Of course, that’s a depressingly low bar.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Jun 1, 2021 17:27:13 GMT -6
What's the latest on the recruiting front? I haven't heard anything for a few weeks.
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