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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 26, 2018 15:18:33 GMT -6
I thought it was all about being in the top 3. Guess that only goes for mens program And how is that working out so far? |
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Post by steveisback on Apr 26, 2018 15:44:19 GMT -6
LIke Alice In Wonderland...up is down and down is up....
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Post by PantherNation on Apr 27, 2018 16:19:00 GMT -6
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 27, 2018 16:37:09 GMT -6
Wow! It appears as if he's perceived to still have some usefulness! |
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Post by mrjamesscott on Apr 27, 2018 17:17:27 GMT -6
Wow! It appears as if he's perceived to still have some usefulness! Of course he did. So did Nze and Bell. I mean they were our best players last year it's not like PB wanted them gone he clearly expected them back. And what's with all the negative or sarcastic comments from you (Dylan) and Fran? After a terrible Monday we've had nothing but signings and commitments and you guys still had NOTHING to say. No "Congrats" no "welcome to the family" NOTHING. At first it was you guys crying about the amount of offers, then us not having enough recruits for next year, then when we secure those recruits, including one both you and Fran wanted (Lucas) and you're silent? Now it's tryna make PB seem like he's the worst coach ever because he did something I'm sure multiple coaches around the nation do? Do you guys just need something/someone to hate? I thought we come to the board to support the Panthers not to nitpick and complain about everything that doesn't go your way. And the crazy thing is, it's "senior" members on the board during all the crying. |
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Post by Pantherholic on Apr 27, 2018 18:28:33 GMT -6
Wow! It appears as if he's perceived to still have some usefulness! Who said he was useless? |
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Post by PantherNation on Apr 28, 2018 6:25:16 GMT -6
I’ll be honest... that list was pretty surprising to me. I knew Minnesota and Butler would likely be interested based on his relationships with LaVall and Jeter. But Virginia (among others) caught me off guard. Makes me wonder if Springs and Arians would have actually even stuck around if there wasn’t a coaching change. Who knows.
If I’m a mid-major coach, I don’t know if I waste my time redshirting a kid who may not quite be ready for D1. Seems like everyone we redshirt ends up graduating and spending that 5th year elsewhere. Hate to say it because you’re obviously not putting the student athletes first with that mentality. But things are getting out of control with transfers, grad transfers, etc. And having someone redshirt, develop, graduate on time (or sometimes push through summer/winter classes solely for the purpose of being able to transfer without sitting a year) and leave doesn’t help the cause for mid-majors. But I can see why the kids want to spend a year living the high life at a high major.
I understand transfers are inevitable based on coaching changes, playing time, and personal matters. It’s just frustrating to see the big name schools take our guys away from us after “we” put in the work to get them to where they are. I guess I’ll just hope that our recruits end up becoming good players... but not too good. And to graduate... but not too early.
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Post by mkehoops on Apr 28, 2018 7:01:45 GMT -6
I’ll be honest... that list was pretty surprising to me. I knew Minnesota and Butler would likely be interested based on his relationships with LaVall and Jeter. But Virginia (among others) caught me off guard. Makes me wonder if Springs and Arians would have actually even stuck around if there wasn’t a coaching change. Who knows. If I’m a mid-major coach, I don’t know if I waste my time redshirting a kid who may not quite be ready for D1. Seems like everyone we redshirt ends up graduating and spending that 5th year elsewhere. Hate to say it because you’re obviously not putting the student athletes first with that mentality. But things are getting out of control with transfers, grad transfers, etc. And having someone redshirt, develop, graduate on time (or sometimes push through summer/winter classes solely for the purpose of being able to transfer without sitting a year) and leave doesn’t help the cause for mid-majors. But I can see why the kids want to spend a year living the high life at a high major. I understand transfers are inevitable based on coaching changes, playing time, and personal matters. It’s just frustrating to see the big name schools take our guys away from us after “we” put in the work to get them to where they are. I guess I’ll just hope that our recruits end up becoming good players... but not too good. And to graduate... but not too early. Agree with everything you just said. Many of these guys would have left regardless of the coaching situation for the chance to play at a higher level. Just like coaches leave schools for larger opportunities every year. The bigger issue in my opinion is the disparity between the have and have nots in college basketball. The NCAA does everything in its power to ensure that the blue bloods and P5 schools thrive while the mid majors become more irrelevant every year. Issue #1- how the NCAA tournament money is distributed. |
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Apr 28, 2018 7:59:27 GMT -6
Good points! That said, hard to blame a kid playing his final year on national tv (WWL, FS1 or CBSSN) in front of 8 to 15k in attendance in multiple bid leagues.
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Post by BBFran on Apr 28, 2018 9:21:56 GMT -6
There’s one reason and one reason only that those FIVE high major talents left the program prematurely.
March 17, 2016.
Any other suggestion is just post facto rationalization trying to avoid seeing the elephant in the room.
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Post by PantherU on Apr 28, 2018 16:00:31 GMT -6
Makes me wonder if Springs and Arians would have actually even stuck around if there wasn’t a coaching change. Who knows. Springs 100%, Jordy 100%, Arians 75-80%. We look at college basketball's transfer epidemic as a recent development, but it's actually not as crazy of a jump as has been talked about ad nauseum. Between 2003-04 to 2013-14, the men's basketball transfer rate went from 9.4% to 13.8% - that number's probably gone up some since then but I couldn't find it with limited time to research. That's a jump but it's hardly earth-shattering. The grad transfer rate tripled, but it's still only 1.9% of college basketball players as of 2016. It was different here: | Scholarship Transfers from March 2011-March 2016 vs. March 2016-Now | | Transfers from '11-3/16 | Destination | | Transfers from 3/16-Now | Destination | | Ja'Rob McCallum | IUPUI | | Akeem Springs | Minnesota | | Lonnie Boga | Drury | | Jordan Johnson | UNLV | | Shaq Boga | UT-Pan Am (now UTRGV) | | Austin Arians | Wake Forest | | Trinson White | UW-Whitewater | | Scotty Tyler | UW-Whitewater | | Justin Jordan | UNC-Greensboro | | Brock Stull | Unknown | | JayQuan McCloud | Indian Hills (2018 GB) | | Jeremiah Bell | Unknown | | | | Bryce Nze | Unknown | | | | August Haas | St. Edwards | | | | Jeremy Johnson | Unknown |
I had a post a few years back in a sh*t-talking session with a GB fan and used the transfer rate of GB as supporting data to the argument. I don't want this to become a Jeter vs. Baldwin argument. It's not. I'm using this data to support my argument that for the most part, players do not want to leave your program if they feel supported and the culture is strong. This is true now as it was 8 years ago; the big difference today is kids need to feel that more and are less likely to work hard for someone they don't feel is supportive of them. I will reiterate: this is not about Jeter. The kids that felt supported by Jeter stuck around. Justin Jordan was pissed about his lack of playing time, he thought he should have been the starting point guard. JayQuan McCloud had some growing up to do, and had already realized that before Jeter was fired. He was on good terms with the team and staff and was likely coming back in 2016-17; after the firings, the coaches sent him to Tone and Lonnie at Indian Hills. Arians had some ideas about leaving, but the postseason snub and other business locked it for him. Springs and Jordy were loyal and the firing had as much to do with it. But LaVall Jordan won over Cody, and Brock, and Studer, and all those guys. He made them feel as though they were valuable to him. Cody in particular, I don't think it's a stretch to say that the whole Wichmann family was very excited for his senior year. That wasn't just a guaranteed boost in playing time; they were very impressed by LaVall Jordan. Everyone who stuck around in 2016 with LaVall Jordan did so because Val won their loyalty in spite of all the stuff that had transpired before he came on the job. This is the hill that Coach Baldwin has to climb. Stull, Nze and Bell should absolutely have been here through graduation; they were great kids (at least Stull and Nze were, I barely knew Bell and am basing this on what others say). It bothers me that Stull, who had already been through so much sh*t and was the unchallenged star of the team coming back, was looking for the door as soon as the HLT. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 29, 2018 8:07:37 GMT -6
Let's just pray that we can win again here by 2020-21.
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Post by PantherNation on May 9, 2018 5:18:32 GMT -6
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Post by Pantherholic on May 9, 2018 7:21:18 GMT -6
Well we can officially call bullsh*t to Bell wanting to play closer to home. Birmingham to Louisville isn’t much closer than Milwaukee is. Hopefully those family issues aren’t serious since he won’t play a meaningful game until November of 2019.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on May 9, 2018 8:26:52 GMT -6
Well we can officially call bullsh*t to Bell wanting to play closer to home. Birmingham to Louisville isn’t much closer than Milwaukee is. Hopefully those family issues aren’t serious since he won’t play a meaningful game until November of 2019. There was talk about him wanting to leave after Coach Jordan left for Butler. |
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