What's next for the Horizon League?

[PantherU]

May 10, 2017 18:40:26 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

The HL has no good options. Back in 2014 we were very close to adding Belmont and Murray State. They both backed off when the MVC had to replace Creighton and looked at the HL. 3 HL schools very publicly campaigned for an invite (UIC, Loyola, and Valpo). Having a 1/3 of the conference trying to bolt scared Belmont and MSU away. We have the exact same problem now. Who in the hell is going to want to come to the HL when UWM, Valpo, and UIC have all been campaigning to leave the HL again? Hell, just go look at Jimmy's twitter feed for the last 2 weeks and you can very clearly see our problem. He's one of the most prominent HL guys on social media. He went from campaigning as hard as humanly possible to try to get UWM into the MVC to trying to convince Murray State fans to join the HL. You have absolutely no credibility left when you do sh*t like that and that is where the conference is at. No one worth a sh*t is going to come to a conference where 1/3 or more of the teams will jump ship at the first sign of another offer. The only schools willing to look at us now are schools from lower conferences that don't offer us anything.

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[mrjamesscott]

May 12, 2017 7:36:14 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

May 12, 2017 1:19:23 GMT -6 PantherU said:

I love you too

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Truth hurts Jimmy. The HL is going to invite 1-3 sh*tty teams because our schools cannot stand together and at least act like a stable conference.

Well, as you just so eloquently pointed out, we appear to be far from a stable conference. What does it help ragging on someone who has and still is very proactive in trying to bring Milwaukee and the HL to something more than what they are now. I don't know Jimmy besides from this board, nor do I know how big of an influence he actually has but I do know that everything I've seen posted from him has been about Milwaukee and the HL getting better, or what they could or should to get better. How about we just wait and see how things turn out, you never know what could happen.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

[PantherU]

May 12, 2017 11:18:48 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

Baseball isn't the only problem, but it's the most pressing one as far as Robert Morris is concerned. Only THREE Horizon League men's sports - basketball, golf and soccer.

The good news is that of their other three men's sports, ice hockey and lacrosse would not need to find a new conference. Football, on the other hand, may need to leave the NEC.

I haven't done any research on this; does anyone know if there's precedent for a school leaving a conference in most sports and leaving one in the conference? I'm not sure whether or not the NEC would force them out, but if they did RMU would have a few options.

My guess is that sports offered would be the biggest reason RMU would get left out. Three men's sports and seven women's sports in the Horizon League, which would be the lowest of any prospective school.

I'm in the middle of my research - I'm putting in a lot more this time around than in 2013 - and what I can tell you is that there's a team that has the upper hand, it's the one that has baseball, men's swimming and men's track. With Valpo leaving, the Horizon League has six schools in each of those sports.

Researched teams by Jimmy that sponsor baseball, men's swimming and diving and men's track and field:
- South Dakota State
- Grand Canyon

The list I'm looking at is 15 schools. Some of them are ridiculous, some of them are obvious. But I wanted to get a full look. I'm not including Belmont because despite how much some of us want it, they're not likely to take an invite. This is the list:

Robert Morris
Omaha
Fort Wayne
IUPUI
UMKC
Denver
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
South Dakota
Chicago State
Lipscomb
Murray State
Morehead State
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State

Of the schools on that list, I'm going to divide them into a few pods.

1. Schools begging for an invite:
- Fort Wayne
- IUPUI
- UMKC
- Chicago State

2. Package Deals
- North Dakota State
- South Dakota State
- South Dakota

3. 'Outside the footprint but manageable' schools
- Omaha
- Lipscomb
- Murray State
- Morehead State

4. 'We should get our heads checked for considering' schools outside the footprint
- Grand Canyon
- New Mexico State
- Denver

5. School that makes sense but have a possible fatal flaw
- Robert Morris

I wish RMU were perfect, but they're not. Along with the lack of Horizon League sports comes the fact that the three men's sports they wouldn't play in conference are all expensive: football, ice hockey and lacrosse. The good news is that they've had all three of those teams while being successful in the NEC. The bad news on basketball is that they've been ravaged by transfers in a similar way to Cleveland State, and that should be considered if they're going to be #10.

Robert Morris' chances of getting into the Horizon League skyrocket if the conference goes for 12 rather than 10 this off-season.

Our chances of getting the Dakota schools were much higher before North Dakota officially accepted an invite to the Summit League, and before that conference centered around them. Right now, the Summit League is very similar in strength to the Horizon League. It's stable. It has only one AWFUL hoops program (Western Illinois). I don't know if they'd take an invite to the HL if we offered it, unless we went beyond 12 and took UND as well. Chances of that are slim.

Only schools I'd guarantee that would take an invite out of the Summit would be Fort Wayne and IUPUI, neither of which are schools we really want in the conference. I will say that both of the Indiana schools are in better shape for the bid than they were when we invited Oakland, but neither are close to the point where we're going to take them.

I wish New Mexico State and Denver were closer. Then again, if NMSU were closer it probably would have been invited to the MVC over Valpo and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

At the very least, Denver is an air hub like Chicago and may not cost nearly as much as we expect it to for travel.

Speaking of travel, that's where I worry about Omaha. They're closer, but still quite a ways away and they have that incredibly huge financial burden that is Baxter Arena. What would HL travel do to their finances? Would they have the extra cash available for hoops?

I'm going to put a lot of research into the two Indiana schools. Perhaps our negative feelings toward them should be left in the past. I'm not sure. I'll be sure to look into the IU-PU split and what that means for each university. If anyone has any info on that, please share.

[PantherU]

May 12, 2017 7:36:14 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

Truth hurts Jimmy. The HL is going to invite 1-3 sh*tty teams because our schools cannot stand together and at least act like a stable conference.

Your perspective on the Horizon League is different from ours.

[MKEPanthers45]

May 12, 2017 13:01:10 GMT -6 PantherU said:

May 12, 2017 11:18:48 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

At the very least, Denver is an air hub like Chicago and may not cost nearly as much as we expect it to for travel.

This is why I think Denver wouldn't be all that bad at least cost wise. It is one of the cheapest places to fly into. Flown from MKE to Denver twice and never paid more than $140 round trip. Paid less than $100 coming from O'hare once. 

[PantherU]

May 12, 2017 16:17:05 GMT -6 MKEPanthers45 said:

May 12, 2017 13:01:10 GMT -6 PantherU said:

At the very least, Denver is an air hub like Chicago and may not cost nearly as much as we expect it to for travel.

This is why I think Denver wouldn't be all that bad at least cost wise. It is one of the cheapest places to fly into. Flown from MKE to Denver twice and never paid more than $140 round trip. Paid less than $100 coming from O'hare once. 

I'm not sure how this would shake out for chartering, but people I've talked with who do know say the cost is somewhat lower with such an airport.

If anyone on here is familiar with travel costs for large groups, I think we'd all be interested in hearing a fresh perspective. Lots of teams talked about are far away.

[PantherU]

May 12, 2017 15:17:56 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

The majority of the HL is making fun of your flip flopping Jimmy and my perspective is called reality. Your perspective is called fantasy land.

'The majority of the HL making fun' of me can kiss my fat ass. I write a blog; therefore I'm going to think up plenty of ideas. Some of those ideas are gonna be pretty ridiculous. A lot of them aren't going to be feasible.

If you don't want to read the blog, don't read the blog. If you don't want to read my posts on the forum, skip past it or block me. If you don't want to read my social media posts, you don't have to.

May 12, 2017 15:17:56 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

We are going to most likely add 3 teams. None will be as good as Valpo and collectively they will not elevate the HL. Hence, we are going to add 3 sh*tty schools.

With optimism like this, who would ever want to think about changing conferences!

Immediately, you're absolutely right. There's no telling. Given time, no one knows that - there's no way of knowing how programs are going to shake out over time, with new coaches and changes at all levels of administration. For instance, if you would have told me in 2007 that Wright State wouldn't be back in the NCAA Tournament ten years later, I would have thought you were crazy.

Of the nine current HL teams, there's optimism for almost all of them. That doesn't mean anything yet, and certainly a couple of those programs won't realize potential, but it's there. I mean, when was the last time anyone at Youngstown State thought there was light at the end of the tunnel and that hope had legs?

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Why are Wright State fans b****ing about crappy teams coming into the Horizon League. Maybe they can win it for once.

[PantherU]

May 12, 2017 18:02:09 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

Why are Wright State fans b****ing about crappy teams coming into the Horizon League. Maybe they can win it for once.

Don't loop them all together. There are plenty of Wright State fans who aren't curmudgeons.

[PantherU]

May 13, 2017 9:18:33 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

May 12, 2017 18:02:09 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

Why are Wright State fans b****ing about crappy teams coming into the Horizon League. Maybe they can win it for once.

Wright State basketball has done more than UWM basketball for this conference in the last decade. AND we haven't publicaly tried to jump ship to another conference and ruined our chance to add quality teams. You cannot count yourself among that group. It's a shame you guys didn't get an invite to the MVC. It would have immediately raised the HL conference RPI and dropped the MVCs.

Who would the Horizon League be getting if Milwaukee hadn't been part of the MVC conversation?

I mean it. Really...what's the program that says "Well, we'd go to the Horizon League, but since Milwaukee is a candidate for the Missouri Valley, then we're not going to join." If your cute little slight there at the end wasn't a load of bullsh*t, then wouldn't that prospective school be more interested in coming along?

The Horizon League didn't lose out on adding a great 10th school because Milwaukee was publicly a candidate for the Valley.

We don't have a great 10th school lined up because what you said about sh*tty teams is right - that's all that's left. All we can do is pick and choose which ones are the best bet to make the conference better over the long haul. Potential is all that's left. Except for Robert Morris, every team will be talked up for what we hope they can be rather than what they have been.

[PantherNation]

May 13, 2017 9:18:33 GMT -6 Big DWSU said:

May 12, 2017 18:02:09 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

Why are Wright State fans b****ing about crappy teams coming into the Horizon League. Maybe they can win it for once.

Wright State basketball has done more than UWM basketball for this conference in the last decade. AND we haven't publicaly tried to jump ship to another conference and ruined our chance to add quality teams. You cannot count yourself among that group. It's a shame you guys didn't get an invite to the MVC. It would have immediately raised the HL conference RPI and dropped the MVCs.

I've seen a lot of ridiculous claims on this messageboard over the years (especially over the last season)... but this comment might actually take the cake. I won't even waste my time going over how absurd of a statement that even is. I try to avoid feeding the trolls.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Let's see UWM has won a regular season title since Wright State last one won. Another season UWM has won a HL Tournament Title since WSU last won one. By the way that came on Wright State's home floor. Last, when the Panthers are in a re-build, they still made it to the HL Title Game last season.

[PantherU]

Maybe Wright State's actually doing a ton of stuff for the conference and we're only failing to notice because we go to Panther games at the Arena, where they've beaten us twice in the last 19 years.

[Title]

The Horizon League is like going to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert. All of the original members are gone, you have to tour around at venues with dozens of people, and a little bit of sadness would leave the world if it just retired.