What's next for the Horizon League?

[BBFran]

May 10, 2017 10:58:07 GMT -6 mrpantherfan said:

The Valley smart guys are saying Valpo was chosen to balance the league with 5 public and 5 private schools. Dumb guys like me know it's for one reason, basketball. Did the Valley people even look inside their facility or see that they average well less than a thousand lower than the rest of the Valley? Their facility is worse than a high school. And did they see who's coaching now and that NKU won the league?

They didn't take Valpo because of women's basketball. Or soccer, track, tennis, volleyball, baseball and softball. UWM would have been the choice for an overall athletic program.

Everyone in the Valley thinks this is awesome. They should be careful.

Let's assume this is correct and that the MoVal choice was strictly about MBB. If that's the comparison, how can you look at the state of our program and not find it losing the comparison to Valpo in essentially every respect? Literally the only comparison point where we currently have an advantage is the quality of our (current) basketball facility. The Arena is much better than the ARC. But Your point about attendance is the important one. Valpo may in fact have averaged a thousand fewer fans per game than the MoVal average. The problem is that OUR program doesn't currently average ONE thousand actual fans in the seats! Perhaps the MoVal presidents looked at the startling collapse of our attendance under this administration and concluded that they couldn't even be sure we would be able to continue to afford to play in the Arena for long. You could not fault them for that conclusion. It's not very long ago our current administrator's mentor and sponsor sent our program reeling by exiling us to the Klotsche -- a facility that makes the ARC look like Madison Square Garden. The MoVal Presidents may very reasonably have wanted no part of the possibility that history could repeat itself.

[steveisback]

I will just throw this out there - Belmont , Murray State would be first two choices but beyond that not reaql enthused about Robert Morris, Morehead State, IUPUI, IPFW , SIU -Edwardsville but what about UMKC or Nebraska Omaha if the first two above do not work. Just thinking out loud

[ghostofdylan]

Steve, you could add Omaha and UMKC and they would be very natural travel partners, but they don't do anything to enhance the league's profile (I fear that ship has sailed) ... and UIC or Green Bay is still left in no man's land.

[parkerj]

May 10, 2017 14:48:09 GMT -6 steveisback said:

I will just throw this out there - Belmont , Murray State would be first two choices but beyond that not reaql enthused about Robert Morris, Morehead State, IUPUI, IPFW , SIU -Edwardsville but what about UMKC or Nebraska Omaha if the first two above do not work. Just thinking out loud

Not sure what either (UMKC in particular) offers that makes them worth expanding the footprint so far.

[steveisback]

Thinking both have good sized enrollments, urban universities in cities with decent market size. Overall upside...facilities not bad either, UMKC also has a historic and updated arena.

[PantherU]

This is one of those times where I wish Minnesota or the UP had mid-major Division I hoops schools.

[BBFran]

It was only six years ago that we played in the 10th best conference in the country. Oh, by the way -- we won it. We lost in the conference tournament final (before 10,000 screaming fans in one of the greatest college basketball environments this city has ever seen) -- but in our defense, the team that beat us made it to the national final.

Now we're getting passed over for Valpo to join a conference not nearly as good as that conference was, while the conference we are in has slipped to low major status, and is actually looking at whether it can induce UMKC or UNO to join. And gosh, why wouldn't they? Instead of having to play in a conference tournament that was set up to guarantee large, rabid crowds for the semis and finals, they can experience the unlimited excitement that scores, sometimes hundreds of fans bring to "Motor City Madness!"

But hey, let's pretend that everything is fine on Downer Avenue. It's only a matter of time before the good times return under the bold leadership we have in place, right?

Madness indeed.

[PantherU]

May 10, 2017 15:40:42 GMT -6 steveisback said:

Thinking both have good sized enrollments, urban universities in cities with decent market size. Overall upside...facilities not bad either, UMKC also has a historic and updated arena.

Omaha is being buried alive in red ink over Baxter Arena, which is making our financial troubles of the last decade look small time. They have something like a $3 million budget deficit that they can't pay back and will grow every year. The arena opened a year and a half ago.

UMKC has done, in its entire history, jack sh*t. Their CBI appearance this year was the first postseason in school history. That alone is enough. Then factor in they're an 8-hour drive, and it's insanity.

If there were a way, I'd love to just take the three Dakota schools - NDSU, SDSU and USD. But I don't think that's possible any more, not with UND on its way to the Summit. That conference has centered around the Dakotas, and they're not very likely to give that up.

That said, there are two Summit schools who could be added - the Alphabet Soup Indiana schools themselves, IUPUI and IPFW.

If that happens? Let's take UIC and run as fast as humanly possible to the Summit League to take their place.

[Pantherholic]

May 10, 2017 15:41:33 GMT -6 PantherU said:

This is one of those times where I wish Minnesota or the UP had mid-major Division I hoops schools.

Agree with Minnesota although I'd be fairly selective who I'd wish to elevate as driving to Crookston, Bemidji, etc, in winter, would be awful.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

May 10, 2017 15:26:20 GMT -6 parkerj said:

May 10, 2017 14:48:09 GMT -6 steveisback said:

I will just throw this out there - Belmont , Murray State would be first two choices but beyond that not reaql enthused about Robert Morris, Morehead State, IUPUI, IPFW , SIU -Edwardsville but what about UMKC or Nebraska Omaha if the first two above do not work. Just thinking out loud

Not sure what either (UMKC in particular) offers that makes them worth expanding the footprint so far.

They have a cool nickname.

[parkerj]

May 10, 2017 18:19:12 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

May 10, 2017 15:26:20 GMT -6 parkerj said:

Not sure what either (UMKC in particular) offers that makes them worth expanding the footprint so far.

They have a cool nickname.

Haha, true...though so does Youngstown, and.........

[BBFran]

May 10, 2017 18:10:02 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

May 10, 2017 15:41:33 GMT -6 PantherU said:

This is one of those times where I wish Minnesota or the UP had mid-major Division I hoops schools.

Agree with Minnesota although I'd be fairly selective who I'd wish to elevate as driving to Crookston, Bemidji, etc, in winter, would be awful.

Not much worse than River Falls, Platteville and Point will be.

[Pantherholic]

May 10, 2017 19:06:43 GMT -6 BBFran said:

May 10, 2017 18:10:02 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

Agree with Minnesota although I'd be fairly selective who I'd wish to elevate as driving to Crookston, Bemidji, etc, in winter, would be awful.

Not much worse than River Falls, Platteville and Point will be.

Yeah but the future Chancellor Jeter can reignite the masses to move back to D1 again so it won't be permanent. If he fails, it's Scott Walker's and/or Ray Cross' fault so he's got nothing to lose!

[ghostofdylan]

May 10, 2017 19:45:43 GMT -6 Pantherholic said:

May 10, 2017 19:06:43 GMT -6 BBFran said:

Not much worse than River Falls, Platteville and Point will be.

Yeah but the future Chancellor Jeter can reignite the masses to move back to D1 again so it won't be permanent. If he fails, it's Scott Walker's and/or Ray Cross' fault so he's got nothing to lose!

I was thinking more along the lines of future athletics director Jeter, but this really isn't about him.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Tuesday, the commissioners of the Missouri Valley Conference voted to invite Valparaiso to join that circuit, the next in a series of chain reaction moves among colleges that started when Wichita State left the MVC for the American Athletic Conference in early April.

That chain will continue, as the Horizon League will seek a school to replace Valpo and find an even number of teams. Where it will end is anybody’s guess, but you can count Moon Township among the places it might land next.

Robert Morris has committed to building a new, 4,000-seat, on-campus basketball facility to open for the 2018-19 season as part of a $50-million commitment to athletics facilities that was announced in January.

"With a new venue of this quality and size, RMU cements its status as a university on the rise," president Chris Howard said at the unveiling of the plan for the facility.

If the school wants to rise in men’s basketball, it’s going to have to eventually outgrow the Northeast Conference. The NEC, where the Colonials have played since 1981, is one of the least-successful basketball conferences in Division I. In the 2016-17 season, KenPom.com rated the NEC’s teams next-to-last in the country.

PROS

The Horizon League is a conference that was built on men’s basketball. From its Indiana roots, it has helped make programs like Butler, Dayton, St. Louis, Valparaiso and Xavier into household names.

If that’s the aspiration RMU has, there’s little doubt that the Horizon League is a good place to fulfill it. It should be a good two-way street, as well, with the facilities commitment showing league officials that RMU is serious about competing at a higher level.

The move to a higher-profile league should make it easier to keep coach Andy Toole long-term and if he were to leave, it would make the job much more appealing to potential candidates.

Two-way street

Bringing in Robert Morris and the Pittsburgh media market would be a win for the Horizon League. The circuit currently has schools in Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Green Bay and Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh would fit right in that regard. 

It’s not a bad deal for RMU, either. The farthest opponent in the Horizon League would be Green Bay, which is about 10 hours by bus. That’s not a lot farther than the Colonials’ current trip to Bryant University in Rhode Island.

There would also be a built-in geographic rivalry with Youngstown State. The two schools’ campuses are just 55 miles apart.

No net losses

A move from the NEC to the Horizon League wouldn’t effect the university’s other marquee programs, the men’s and women’s hockey teams. Those teams play in hockey-only conferences.

CONS

Football — and the men’s and women’s lacrosse programs — would be left without a home because the Horizon League does not sponsor those sports. Staying in the NEC as associate members might not be an option, either. When Monmouth left that conference for the MAAC in 2013, the football and bowling teams were told to take a hike.

The only Horizon League team that sponsors football is Youngstown State. The Penguins play in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, which will have 11 members when North Dakota joins in 2020, so there could be a fit.

Is it enough?

The Horizon League is still usually a one-bid league, and while it has produced many of college basketball's great mid-major programs, many of them have moved on to bigger and better things.

The Colonials are going to have to fill a 4,000-seat venue when they couldn’t regularly fill the 3,056-seat Sewall Center. The best returning teams in the Horizon League from 2016-17 will be Oakland and Northern Kentucky. Those aren’t exactly names that are going to send fans flocking to the ticket office.

Show me the money.

The Horizon League is an unquestioned upgrade in men’s basketball difficulty from the NEC. KenPom.com rated the Horizon 17th, one spot above the SEC. Competing at that level is going to mean bigger recruiting budgets and more staff members.

That’s not just an issue that affects men’s basketball, either. The Horizon League would represent a step up for most of the school’s 15 teams. Each would need the same type of upgrades to remain competitive. Football and lacrosse may have to play as independents for a time, which could mean increased travel costs.

That could all add up to a significant investment. With the university just shelling out big dough for the arena, is there more in the coffers to fund a competitive shift to a tougher conference?







Read more: horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1022/robert-morris-article#ixzz4gp3kRKWQ