|
|
Post by Pounce Needs Pals on May 2, 2017 11:19:03 GMT -6
I suspect Mark Adams may have been talking out of his @$$ a bit for some twitter likes. Well, maybe Valpo is team 10. His "sources" don't know anything about 11 or school 12. |
|
|
|
Post by Pounce Needs Pals on May 2, 2017 11:47:06 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Pantherholic on May 2, 2017 11:54:01 GMT -6
Indiana State's beat writer
|
|
|
|
Post by MKEPanthers45 on May 2, 2017 15:06:05 GMT -6
hmmm...
|
|
|
|
Post by PantherU on May 2, 2017 17:29:51 GMT -6
He was trolling us. It was about the German kid. |
|
|
|
Post by PantherNation on May 2, 2017 18:41:18 GMT -6
Personally, I'm over the MVC thing. The majority of their fans seem to think they are the greatest conference in the world when in reality they have been riding the coat tails of Wichita State for the last several years. Now they all seem to think they are above us and would be best at 11 teams.
They must not realize that they aren't going to be a 2 bid league with the Shockers gone. Are they better than the HL? Probably. But why go somewhere where we aren't welcome? They can have Valpo. We'll be ok. They are replaceable. We can find another team to do well in the NIT every year and not win a game in the only tournament that counts.
There's no reason we should feel like the outcast of the MVC when our history is better than most of their schools. They'll come back to reality once they realize Wichita State isn't there anymore and interest in their conference diminishes. In the meantime, we should focus on winning our own conference instead of on the hopes that they take us in and "make us relevant" again. When UNI and Valpo run away with that conference every year, we can get to the dance and represent the HL like we used to.
If I wanted to deal with fans who don't think their sh*t stinks... I'd get season tickets across the street.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pantherholic on May 2, 2017 19:41:43 GMT -6
Personally, I'm over the MVC thing. The majority of their fans seem to think they are the greatest conference in the world when in reality they have been riding the coat tails of Wichita State for the last several years. Now they all seem to think they are above us and would be best at 11 teams. They must not realize that they aren't going to be a 2 bid league with the Shockers gone. Are they better than the HL? Probably. But why go somewhere where we aren't welcome? They can have Valpo. We'll be ok. They are replaceable. We can find another team to do well in the NIT every year and not win a game in the only tournament that counts. There's no reason we should feel like the outcast of the MVC when our history is better than most of their schools. They'll come back to reality once they realize Wichita State isn't there anymore and interest in their conference diminishes. In the meantime, we should focus on winning our own conference instead of on the hopes that they take us in and "make us relevant" again. When UNI and Valpo run away with that conference every year, we can get to the dance and represent the HL like we used to. If I wanted to deal with fans who don't think their sh*t stinks... I'd get season tickets across the street. Fan opinion is irrelevant and half of their conference sucks too. Since Loyola joined the league, Drake & Bradley have finished worse than LU every year but the Ramblers' inaugural season. Missouri State has finished below them twice & only fared better than them once by a whopping ONE whole game. Evansville, Drake & Indiana St have combined for something like 6 winning records in conference since '02. Bradley's last winning season in conference was the '08-'09 season & one NCAA tournament since 1996. They can talk all they want but they're like Vanderbilt, Mizzou, KY & Miss St fans boasting about how dominant SEC football is. |
|
|
|
Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 3, 2017 7:47:36 GMT -6
Perhaps some analysis of some facts are in order here.
If the MVC takes only Valpo to replace Wichita St., what exactly would that mean for each conference? Based on last season's final RPI numbers it would mean the following:
Before Realignment:
MVC - RPI Rank = .5032 (#12)
Horizon - RPI Rank = .4821 (#19)
Moving Valpo from Horizon to MVC and removing Wichita St.:
MVC - RPI Rank = .4987 (#12) - #13 is Sun Belt at .4974 - MINOR CHANGE FOR MVC
Horizon - RPI Rank = .4732 (#23) - Just below the Patriot League and just above Conference USA. - MAJOR DROP FOR HORIZON
Of course, this analysis is far from a perfect one, as the RPI's would probably be actually a bit lower for the Horizon due to the lower SOS with Valpo no longer on everyone's schedule, and perhaps a bit lower for the MVC as well as Valpo was a bit lower in RPI than Wichita St.
What is ABSOLUTELY irrefutable is that if only Valpo moves to the MVC, the MVC stands pat as a conference at least as far as RPI is concerned, while the Horizon League is decimated and probably becomes a Low D1 conference and not even really what you can honestly describe as a Mid Major.
Consider this: The top 2 teams in the conference would be Oakland (who not long ago was everyone's pre season cupcake of choice) and Northern Kentucky who has less time in D1 than some students at UWM have been in school. That is not exactly a good thing. Milwaukee will be left behind in a crap conference and even if we win it every season, we will probably be relegated to the play in games in the tournament because we "won" a craptastic conference.
Oh, and good luck scheduling any quality teams in Non Con play, too. No one, and I mean NO ONE, will want to play Milwaukee when even a win against us drags down their RPI.
If we are not extended an invite to the MVC, I think it may be entirely possible that it marks the end of the Milwaukee Panthers as anything more than a low D1 program, and perhaps paves the way to move back to D3. That may sound severe, but I believe it is realistic.....after all, replacing Valpo is not going to be an easy task for the now lousy Horizon League.
|
|
|
|
Post by steveisback on May 3, 2017 8:09:32 GMT -6
While I do not think this is a harbinger of going back to D III do agree that if Valpo leaves HL becomes even more moribund and sinking to ranks of low majors....I do think it would be a shot in the arm to move to MVC...we need something to jump start things here. I still believe we have a great upside even with current administration and Coach Val is going to get some mojo going around here...now as far as HL...if Valpo leaves thinking best option ans not sure they would even be interested is Belmont...after that??? Very fearful we then face the likes of IUPUI, IPFW, Arkansas Little Rock, Siu-Edwardsville etc...Mother of God!!! Denver or or Chicago State? I shudder even typing these names...
|
|
|
|
Post by JG Panthers on May 3, 2017 9:08:11 GMT -6
Perhaps some analysis of some facts are in order here. If the MVC takes only Valpo to replace Wichita St., what exactly would that mean for each conference? Based on last season's final RPI numbers it would mean the following: Before Realignment:MVC - RPI Rank = .5032 (#12) Horizon - RPI Rank = .4821 (#19) Moving Valpo from Horizon to MVC and removing Wichita St.:MVC - RPI Rank = .4987 (#12) - #13 is Sun Belt at .4974 - MINOR CHANGE FOR MVCHorizon - RPI Rank = .4732 (#23) - Just below the Patriot League and just above Conference USA. - MAJOR DROP FOR HORIZONOf course, this analysis is far from a perfect one, as the RPI's would probably be actually a bit lower for the Horizon due to the lower SOS with Valpo no longer on everyone's schedule, and perhaps a bit lower for the MVC as well as Valpo was a bit lower in RPI than Wichita St. What is ABSOLUTELY irrefutable is that if only Valpo moves to the MVC, the MVC stands pat as a conference at least as far as RPI is concerned, while the Horizon League is decimated and probably becomes a Low D1 conference and not even really what you can honestly describe as a Mid Major.Consider this: The top 2 teams in the conference would be Oakland (who not long ago was everyone's pre season cupcake of choice) and Northern Kentucky who has less time in D1 than some students at UWM have been in school. That is not exactly a good thing. Milwaukee will be left behind in a crap conference and even if we win it every season, we will probably be relegated to the play in games in the tournament because we "won" a craptastic conference.
Oh, and good luck scheduling any quality teams in Non Con play, too. No one, and I mean NO ONE, will want to play Milwaukee when even a win against us drags down their RPI.
If we are not extended an invite to the MVC, I think it may be entirely possible that it marks the end of the Milwaukee Panthers as anything more than a low D1 program, and perhaps paves the way to move back to D3. That may sound severe, but I believe it is realistic.....after all, replacing Valpo is not going to be an easy task for the now lousy Horizon League.I know doom and gloom is your thing, but this is ridiculous. First off, RPI is a nearly extinct metric for measuring team strength. You needed RPI to show that losing Valpo sucks? Additionally, there is a lot of information missing here. Who is replacing Valpo? Is it 1 team? 3 teams? I've been hearing about Milwaukee's move to D3 for over a year now and I have to laugh every time it is brought up (by the same people). Despite your wishes, we will not be moving to D3 or be a low major program. I'm sure your "in the know" political connections that we've heard about are telling you differently, but it isn't going to happen. We will replace Valpo. We will not be a low major program/league. Investment in the program determines mid-major status, not one year's worth of RPI. The HL spends on MBB at a mid-major level. We will not be as strong of a league as we were with Valpo initially, but the goal hasn't changed since 2016 or 2006. Schedule to the best of your ability in non-conference (NO ONE will play us? GTFO) to prepare you for the league/tournament. Win your league. Make the NCAA tournament. The rest will take care of itself. |
|
|
|
Post by JG Panthers on May 3, 2017 9:13:06 GMT -6
Very fearful we then face the likes of IUPUI (maybe), IPFW (maybe), Arkansas Little Rock (no), Siu-Edwardsville (no) etc...Mother of God!!! Denver (maybe) or or Chicago State (no)? I shudder even typing these names... |
|
|
|
Post by BBFran on May 3, 2017 9:18:30 GMT -6
For pity's sake, folks, be honest. The ONLY reason we are even getting looked at by the MVC is that they are desperate and there are very few available candidates. If we became a member of the MVC, understand that it may not even be as good a conference as the HL was when we won the regular season title in 2011.
If you take the blinders off, the state of our program right now is that we are no life vest for a sinking conference -- we're a boat anchor! For the MVC to take a chance on Milwaukee it would mean that they are betting on the come, on some chancy dream that a program suffering under our administration's continuing and demonstrated neglect -- both benign and malign -- will somehow find its way back to relevance (much less prominence). If you are the MVC search committee, you see a Milwaukee program that mendaciously fired a successful coach without a whisper of off court issues who was very popular in the coaching community, alienated a huge part of its fan and donor base and predictably saw both its record and its attendance collapse to HISTORICALLY disastrous levels. What exactly about that set of facts suggests that we are currently an attractive date instead of the last sad single at bar time? The blunt truth is that right now we are like Groucho Marx -- we shouldn't WANT to be a member of any conference that would have us.
I will be watching what happens in the next month carefully. If there is no MVC invite AND the folks in Chapman do not act on our AD, I'll take it as a clear signal that we all may be buying our "Beat Stout!" buttons soon.
Some of us have been fans of this program long enough to know it can happen -- because it has happened before.
|
|
|
|
Post by panthercpa on May 3, 2017 9:45:43 GMT -6
My God...stop. This thread is about a potential MVC invite, not your pipe dream of us going D3 so you can say, "I told you so." We know..Amanada Braun is clearly not great at her job...but Jeter wasn't a world beater either (seemingly nice guy - but it's true). Does this debate have to rage in every thread?
We have what seems to be a solid young coach, who puts a disciplined team on the court, while maintaining good character. Also, he's pro-active in Milwaukee Athletics promotion. We have a nice incoming recruiting class, with a chance to advance our position in conferences. If MVC passes, then we're still in the HL...why is this the end of days? R-E-L-A-X.
|
|
|
|
Post by theDarkHawkReturns on May 3, 2017 9:50:47 GMT -6
Doom and gloom is "my thing"?
Have you pulled your head out of Braun's butt long enough to look around? We were a bottom dweller in a poor conference last season. Yes, we made a run in the conference tourney, but that netted us nothing in the post season (not even an also ran tournament).
Attendance is lower than multiple HIGH SCHOOL programs in the state. HIGH SCHOOLS are out drawing us. This is not hyperbole, either. It is a cold hard fact.
Donors have fled, and publicly so. Some of those donors are a big reason we were able to get to D1 in the first place, and in some seasons, carried ALL the water for funding.
Things aren't "alright" and it is not "Doom and gloom" to point out the simple facts.
If we win 20+ games next season in the "New and Improved Horizon League - Now with 100% less Valpo", manage to win the "Motor City Badness" tourney (with all 6 people in attendance), we will be rewarded with a slot in the Play in Game against a Power Conference also ran - and likely head home before Thursday.
But go ahead JG....keep kissing Braun's butt and telling yourself all is well and we are a year or two away from a new glory era in Panther Basketball, with Sweet 16's year after year and potentially and Elite 8 or - gasp - a Final Four in "special seasons". Keep dreaming we are the next Butler and soon we, too, will be nationally ranked and in a power conference.
Of the two outcomes, D3 or Butler Part 2, keep arguing that Butler Part 2 is right around the corner.
Coach Val could be John Wooden and he would still get us to a 15 seed in a good season with the dipsh*ts in the administration looming over him.
But hey....it's all the fault of "doom and gloomers" that this is true...because if none of us stated the obvious, we could all be as deluded as you are.
|
|
|
|
Post by BBFran on May 3, 2017 9:54:45 GMT -6
So were you already a fan or alum the last time our administration bumbled and stumbled us from D1 to D3? Have you just forgotten?
I have no "I told you so" desire. I spent too many years as one of this program's most committed and involved fans to want that to happen. What astonishes me is that people are ignoring the elephant in the room. Even if we stay in D1, our current administration is a pair of steel handcuffs on the potential of our program.
|
|
