|
|
Post by PantherU on Apr 19, 2013 22:14:23 GMT -6
This is a link to a forum thread. The reason I post this thread is because there are two articles linked inside - one laying out the potential suitors for the Horizon League, the second what I would do if given that list. Link: PantherU's take on Horizon League Expansion |
|
|
|
Post by fargobison on Apr 21, 2013 18:23:35 GMT -6
I saw some posts on twitter about this comment and thought I would clarify NDSU's situation...
NDSU's football program has over 12,000 season ticket holders(basically double YSU's season ticket holder base) and a booster club that raised over $2.8 million last year. A large part of that money comes from priority seating for football, the more you give the better your seats are.
The worst seats require a $100 donation on top of what you pay for season tickets and the best seats basically require a donation of a full scholarship($11,000+).
The money that Team Makers(NDSU's booster club) raises is used to pay for scholarships across the athletic department. So football really has a very positive impact on the athletic department, which is a bit unique for an FCS school.
|
|
|
|
Post by fargobison on Apr 21, 2013 23:07:49 GMT -6
One question...If the Horizon did add 4 schools(lets say Oakland, NKU, SDSU and NDSU) would that affect how the basketball tournament is formatted? Would the Horizon move to a MAC like setup with east and west divisions and a neutral site for the championship?
I am sorry to take things off track with the football discussion in the previous post, I just wanted to clear that up.
|
|
|
|
Post by JG Panthers on Apr 22, 2013 6:55:24 GMT -6
I see no need for a division split since the league doesn't support football. In theory, it might make sense to host the Championship at a neutral site due to a larger geographic footprint, but to Big D's point the appearance of a packed house on TV is an obvious plus. What I like about the best team hosting the championship is that it gives the Horizon League the opportunity to showcase its best team in the NCAA Tournament.
|
|
|
|
Post by JG Panthers on Apr 22, 2013 7:46:26 GMT -6
If we add 4 teams we will be splitting into 2 six team divisions to cut down on travel costs. I suppose you're right. Not likely we'll play 22 conference games in a year. Not sure what I was thinking. Have to imagine they'd be split into East (CSU, YSU, WSU, Detroit, Oakland, NKU) and West (NDSU, SDSU, MKE, GB, UIC and Valpo) in this scenario. |
|
|
|
Post by PantherU on Apr 22, 2013 8:15:19 GMT -6
If we add 4 teams we will be splitting into 2 six team divisions to cut down on travel costs. I suppose you're right. Not likely we'll play 22 conference games in a year. Not sure what I was thinking. Have to imagine they'd be split into East (CSU, YSU, WSU, Detroit, Oakland, NKU) and West (NDSU, SDSU, MKE, GB, UIC and Valpo) in this scenario. It's the other sports that would definitely need it - soccer, volleyball etc. I think the real killer is the distance. At Milwaukee and I'm sure at Green Bay there isn't a bunch of resistance to the Dakota schools because while it's an 8-hour drive, so is Detroit and so would be NKU. But the Wisconsin/Chicagoland schools would be the only ones that would not groan at the travel. People talk about the travel costs in the Summit and the Dakota State schools are a big part of the reasoning behind that. They're not Centenary or Southern Utah, but it's still a long trek from Ohio, Michigan and Indiana. When I talk about budget, I could only use the reported numbers by the university to the NCAA. I didn't feel it was fair to say "Oh well NDSU raises a bunch of money here so they should get a leg up." I couldn't get the fundraising numbers for most of the schools, so I left them off all of the schools. My point about football being an albatross is still valid. Even with the basketball team getting a $36 million arena upgrade, the team's annual expenses hover around $1 million, the same as YSU. That's why I equated the two. All extra money goes back into football. And that's okay, NDSU should continue to keep it's football program as great as it can. We're just still reeling from the effects of letting in a school that doesn't share our priorities in sports. How are we to know that once the basketball facilities are upgraded, they don't end the extra support there? What if we bring in NDSU only to see that school lose momentum every time it gets to the tournament and loses its coach? These are the worries. And it's not like I'm saying the DSU's would be bad - I prefer to add them over most of the schools on that list, only behind the basketball-centric schools that are closest to us. |
|
|
|
Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 22, 2013 10:24:24 GMT -6
In regards to how H League expansion may play out ...
ghostofdylan: Well, something happens!
Jon LeCrone: No, nothing happens!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by panther9193 on Apr 22, 2013 10:33:52 GMT -6
Terrific analysis of possible additions! I love the best case scenario (nice footprint, three major market additions, comparable schools in terms of budgets)!
Although we should never rule anything out, I don't see why staying in the Horizon League is so bad if "smart" decisions are made regarding expansion. We could come out of this a better conference than before coming closer to the status of the MVC (or even better if all pieces fall into place just right). If we do this, maybe schools won't be so anxious to leave in the future.
I just hope the Horizon League feels this way and actively goes after these schools instead of waiting back until other conferences make their move. That's a sure way to obscurity.
|
|
|
|
Post by fargobison on Apr 22, 2013 20:49:13 GMT -6
My point about football being an albatross is still valid. Even with the basketball team getting a $36 million arena upgrade, the team's annual expenses hover around $1 million, the same as YSU. That's why I equated the two. All extra money goes back into football. And that's okay, NDSU should continue to keep it's football program as great as it can. We're just still reeling from the effects of letting in a school that doesn't share our priorities in sports. How are we to know that once the basketball facilities are upgraded, they don't end the extra support there? What if we bring in NDSU only to see that school lose momentum every time it gets to the tournament and loses its coach? These are the worries. And it's not like I'm saying the DSU's would be bad - I prefer to add them over most of the schools on that list, only behind the basketball-centric schools that are closest to us. I understand that you don't want to add schools that aren't serious about basketball. I think spending $36 million in facility upgrades is a big step forward to showing that but I do agree it isn't the only step. The school needs to step up and double it's basketball budget....If the facility upgrade is phase 1 that needs to be phase 2. I will say I think it is interesting that some say the Horizon would stay on campus for the conference tournament. The Summit moved to a neutral location and where it is played has become a bit of a divisive issue that hasn't been good for the league. |
|
|
|
Post by Hack on Apr 23, 2013 6:57:06 GMT -6
I will say I think it is interesting that some say the Horizon would stay on campus for the conference tournament. The Summit moved to a neutral location and where it is played has become a bit of a divisive issue that hasn't been good for the league. I think most fans like our current tournament format. It gives fans something to root for during the regular season. You want to host the final rounds of the tournament so every game matters more. Correct. The only real fanbase that had an issue with it just left for the MVC. Of course, Loyola has been garbage for the better part of the last 28 years, so I can understand why they wouldn't want to earn a favorable placement. |
|
|
|
Post by ghostofdylan on Apr 24, 2013 9:00:16 GMT -6
From Rob Demovsky's notes ...
Horizon League teams haven’t been told how many conference games to expect next season. The league is down to eight schools for next season after Loyola announced it was leaving for the Missouri Valley Conference effective July 1.
In two years, the Horizon League has gone from 10 schools to eight. Before Butler’s departure last spring, the league schedule consisted of 18 games. Last year, teams played 16 conference games.
This is reportedly creating some real issues with filling out the non-conference schedule. The coaches have calls out to everyone, but can't commit to anyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingsteve on Apr 24, 2013 10:03:45 GMT -6
This is SO Lecrone!! When something finally does happen you can count on two things...it will be late and will be underwhelming
|
|
|
|
Post by kingsteve on Apr 24, 2013 10:06:43 GMT -6
I got it!!!!! How about the HL hire Andy Geiger as special assistant for a year to stabilize things and raise revenue for the conference...they can pay him $200,000 to fall asleep at events, be tone deaf and totally alienate the loyal base while essentially contributing nothing other than padding his retirement
|
|
|
|
Post by kingsteve on Apr 24, 2013 10:41:49 GMT -6
ok, back on subject....thoughts on best candidates...
<Belmont and Northern Kentucky - Oakland ok but more I think of it these two locales would tramp and open new markets. I am cooling on the whole SDSU and NDSU thing mainly because they are football-centric...
<If Belmont would not want in UMKC....really impessed with NKU. Look at their freakin facility!! Absolutely beautiful!! Just what we need and freakin NKU did it??
I would say neither Belmont or NKU then backups UMKC and Oakland with Moorhead state as final backup. PLEASE!!!! NO IUPUI or IPFW!!! then we may as well stay at the KC... seriously time to go back to the U S Cellular for near term if new facility like NKU is ten years off.. in the meantime not saying we buy the Cell but love Jimmy's idea of naming rights and signage. With doing that,. some mojo maybe if HL does something somewhat interesting and Rob's new players maybe we can get back on track but MUST return downtown. Take a look at today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about the youthful vitaility and downtown being so exciting...yeah...lets go back on campus so old duffers like me can relive the Baker Fieldhouse days, drink soda and eat stale popcorn and savor the on campus excitement. Give me a break.. burn Geiger i efficty and end the one year Billy Goat curse and go back downtown as UWM is truly not an east side school only but belongs to the whole community. Same number of students will go downtown as now walk to high school gym/practive facility.
|
|
|
|
Post by tjbison on Apr 24, 2013 11:53:40 GMT -6
|
|
