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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Sept 27, 2012 11:09:27 GMT -6
The move to campus was more than just to save money. College basketball games should be played on campus. Let's see what the new upgrades will look like. I'm pumped for the new scoreboard and videoboard. Let's see if the students show up. Just because the AD said the plan in on hold, that might mean on hold for a short time. He wants a new building for the men's and women's basketball to practice in. I know that's the line Geiger is trying to sell, but a lot of college hoops teams in major urban cities play downtown rather than on-campus. Just off the top of my head, I can think of Memphis, Louisville, St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul (in what I suppose is Rosemont's "downtown") and technically, Marquette. Besides, if Geiger actually believed that college sports belong on campus, he probably wouldn't be building a baseball park in Glendale. Your putting those schools in the same boat as the Milwaukee Panthers? Seton Hall & DePaul don't draw well and have no edge in noise for a home court edge. They would be better served to have an arena on campus. Marquette students can walk to the Bradley Center. That's one hell of a walk for UWM students to go to the Cell. |
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Sept 27, 2012 11:11:56 GMT -6
UWM somehow lands the best AD in college sports and our fans are still not content! Maybe the university is not the problem that is keeping our athletic department from moving forward? I am starting to think its the unrealistic vision of many fans who want their personal interests addressed over what is best for the entire department. Armchair ADs are really the ones hurting us right now. You can't build Ohio State or UW-Madison overnight. But, the recent proposal by Geiger is a huge step forward. This department has never moved this fast before or started working with such large donors. Real change is happening right now and it seems like many in our fan base are not happy. A basketball stadium will happen, but finding the right donors to fund the project and creating a good plan takes time. Geiger's barely been on the job and we have a major building project proposed in athletics. Careful planning and a real fundraising strategy will make other projects a reality, too. Well said. I find it funny how some try to tell the AD what to do, when have not helped the cause in terms of $$$$$$$. |
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dutchpthr
Junior
ain't much if it ain't dutch
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Post by dutchpthr on Sept 27, 2012 15:44:53 GMT -6
UWM somehow lands the best AD in college sports and our fans are still not content! Maybe the university is not the problem that is keeping our athletic department from moving forward? I am starting to think its the unrealistic vision of many fans who want their personal interests addressed over what is best for the entire department. Armchair ADs are really the ones hurting us right now. You can't build Ohio State or UW-Madison overnight. But, the recent proposal by Geiger is a huge step forward. This department has never moved this fast before or started working with such large donors. Real change is happening right now and it seems like many in our fan base are not happy. A basketball stadium will happen, but finding the right donors to fund the project and creating a good plan takes time. Geiger's barely been on the job and we have a major building project proposed in athletics. Careful planning and a real fundraising strategy will make other projects a reality, too. In the words of Norman Chad "Pay the man Shirley!" Freak nailed it here. Sorry to all those other fans out there but unless you have the ability to match with your wallet the expectations you keep dreaming about, I'm sorry but your opinions while here are great, and are fun to see but be realistic. College sports is no longer the fun alternative to the pro game off the court, it is all about the all mighty $$$$ and if you can provide that you will be heard and you will be given the info you seek. But come on people, you need to realize the good old buddy buddy days of Bus are gone and to be honest rightfully so. I like most of you I'm sure like the fact that there are members that look at our program as a family and the we the fans are part of that, but at the same time i think it is highly unrealistic to assume that our every little whim and request is always going to automatically answered at the snap of our fingers every time. To say there is no plan at all, I find that extremely hard to believe (I am not trying to attack Jimmy or discredit him at all by any means just trying to give a different view point is all). I think more then likely the truth is that there is a plan and one that they are following, it is just being held close to vest given the results that the AD has had in the past, and i see no issue with that, why show your hand at this point? The only thing that it does now is give more room for there to be obstacles that come up. Let the program do their job now that we finally have someone in charge that knows how to do this job and give the benefit of doubt. I just don't get the need to rush to judgement on everything going on when there are so many different programs in the AD that need help, it is hard to just singularly focus one when there are holes and cracks that are in major need to be fixed all over the place. Just because the plan hasn't been shared publicly with everyone on this board does not mean there isn't one or that there are steps to follow through on the plan already going on. Our program is in such a state that there is not one thing that needs to change there are multiple things that need to change and that is the truth. We are a division 1 program that has been ran like a division 2 or 3 program for too long, we need to let the man in charge fix this issue as he is showing he already has a plan this baseball field / track and field location shows. |
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Post by illwauk on Sept 27, 2012 23:23:52 GMT -6
I know that's the line Geiger is trying to sell, but a lot of college hoops teams in major urban cities play downtown rather than on-campus. Just off the top of my head, I can think of Memphis, Louisville, St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul (in what I suppose is Rosemont's "downtown") and technically, Marquette. Besides, if Geiger actually believed that college sports belong on campus, he probably wouldn't be building a baseball park in Glendale. Your putting those schools in the same boat as the Milwaukee Panthers? Seton Hall & DePaul don't draw well and have no edge in noise for a home court edge. They would be better served to have an arena on campus. They might not be much nowadays, but both were very successful programs at one time and they did it without an on-campus arena. In fact, I'd say the supposed stigma against programs without an on-campus arena is extremely exaggerated, and it certainly doesn't exist in basketball to the extent it does in football. That's not to say a real, on-campus arena wouldn't still be ideal for Milwaukee, but if our choices are going to be limited to the Cell and the KC for the forseeable future, I think it's pretty obvious where we should be playing. |
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Post by illwauk on Sept 27, 2012 23:45:01 GMT -6
UWM somehow lands the best AD in college sports and our fans are still not content! Maybe the university is not the problem that is keeping our athletic department from moving forward? I am starting to think its the unrealistic vision of many fans who want their personal interests addressed over what is best for the entire department. Armchair ADs are really the ones hurting us right now. You can't build Ohio State or UW-Madison overnight. But, the recent proposal by Geiger is a huge step forward. This department has never moved this fast before or started working with such large donors. Real change is happening right now and it seems like many in our fan base are not happy. A basketball stadium will happen, but finding the right donors to fund the project and creating a good plan takes time. Geiger's barely been on the job and we have a major building project proposed in athletics. Careful planning and a real fundraising strategy will make other projects a reality, too. In the words of Norman Chad "Pay the man Shirley!" Freak nailed it here. Sorry to all those other fans out there but unless you have the ability to match with your wallet the expectations you keep dreaming about, I'm sorry but your opinions while here are great, and are fun to see but be realistic. College sports is no longer the fun alternative to the pro game off the court, it is all about the all mighty $$$$ and if you can provide that you will be heard and you will be given the info you seek. But come on people, you need to realize the good old buddy buddy days of Bus are gone and to be honest rightfully so. I like most of you I'm sure like the fact that there are members that look at our program as a family and the we the fans are part of that, but at the same time i think it is highly unrealistic to assume that our every little whim and request is always going to automatically answered at the snap of our fingers every time. To say there is no plan at all, I find that extremely hard to believe (I am not trying to attack Jimmy or discredit him at all by any means just trying to give a different view point is all). I think more then likely the truth is that there is a plan and one that they are following, it is just being held close to vest given the results that the AD has had in the past, and i see no issue with that, why show your hand at this point? The only thing that it does now is give more room for there to be obstacles that come up. Let the program do their job now that we finally have someone in charge that knows how to do this job and give the benefit of doubt. I just don't get the need to rush to judgement on everything going on when there are so many different programs in the AD that need help, it is hard to just singularly focus one when there are holes and cracks that are in major need to be fixed all over the place. Just because the plan hasn't been shared publicly with everyone on this board does not mean there isn't one or that there are steps to follow through on the plan already going on. You have to admit, it doesn't exactly make the best first impression when you yank a team out of a very nice arena without so much as seeking input from the season ticket holders, thereby alienating a good chunk of them. Then on top of that, you abort the arena plans everyone is excited about, but not only don't offer up an alternative, but remain completely silent on the matter outside of "maybe a practice facility in 3-5 years." I don't think anyone is asking for a definite plan right this moment, but they could at least give the people who have spent thousands of dollars supporting your program a list of plans they're considering. With all the crap our fans have put up with thanks to the athletic department's inability to get its Sugar Honey Iced Tea together, you can't blame them for demanding more answers than we've been getting. Yes, I understand that Geiger can't build an OSU-style program overnight, but honestly, I don't even want a Big Ten style program at Milwaukee. Our program is in such a state that there is not one thing that needs to change there are multiple things that need to change and that is the truth. We are a division 1 program that has been ran like a division 2 or 3 program for too long, we need to let the man in charge fix this issue as he is showing he already has a plan this baseball field / track and field location shows. Well now that Glendale is out, we might actually get it closer to campus and at least give the baseball team a chance to put some butts in seats... I still don't think Milwaukee should even be offering baseball though. |
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Post by skrapheap on Sept 28, 2012 8:05:27 GMT -6
That's not to say a real, on-campus arena wouldn't still be ideal for Milwaukee, but if our choices are going to be limited to the Cell and the KC for the forseeable future, I think it's pretty obvious where we should be playing.
The upsides of playing at the Cell come with a big, big, downside: the cost. It costs lots and lots of money to hold games in that arena ($500,000 a season was the figure tossed around in the past). If the basketball team were routinely drawing 8,000+ paying fans a game, the higher cost might be worth it. Instead, the Department was paying huge amounts of money and drawing those kind of crowds only occasionally. The deficit the Department has had to deal with stems in large part because of the lease of the Cell.
Added to the cost was the issue of scheduling. UWM doesn't own the Cell, so games could and did get bumped when the WCD found someone who would pay big bucks to use the arena. Klotsche is much smaller than the Cell, with much less atmosphere. But it is a facility UWM owns, so games won't get bumped because Disney on Ice is waiving more money at the ownership. |
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Sept 28, 2012 9:30:58 GMT -6
I agree in what you said, other than the KC will have an atmosphere. The Celll didn't have an atmosphere with 3,000 people in a 11,000 seat arena.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Sept 28, 2012 18:55:19 GMT -6
"Yes, I understand that Geiger can't build an OSU-style program overnight, but honestly, I don't even want a Big Ten style program at Milwaukee."
Not sure what you mean by that.
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Post by milwsport on Sept 28, 2012 21:55:40 GMT -6
My two cents:
1) There are obviously multiple problems at the AD. They were years in the making and they won't be solved overnight. They are basic problems that need to be solved or any advances will be built on shaky ground.
2) It's not beyond comprehension that Geiger knows our recruiting is going to take a hit. That means weaker teams and that means fewer fans. An indoor practice facility will help with that problem. A new arena is nice but we need the athletic facilities to provide an infrastructure to support it. It's called "Walk before you run."
3) He's being smart. If he says "Yup, we're going to build a new arena" when he knows that we need decent practice facilities to build a stronger program, guess what everyone is going to want to give to. (Hint it won't be the practice facilities). Building those first gets our feet wet, helps to build a base of committed donors and gets the community invested in the ultimate success of the program.
4) He's new and he's a man of integrity. He's not going to promise something unless he knows he can deliver on it. The jury is still out on whether we can come up with the money we need for an indoor arena. Yes the students offered up bucks and that's great but it won't be enough to build a new arena for a few years at least. If you want something in the next ten years or so, it will take outside support to get it.
Ok so that's four cents worth. Am I happy there is no plan to build a new arena in the next five years? Nope. But I recognize that some basic needs have to be met first or anything we do will be half baked and a waste. Keep in mind that the stronger schools raise lots of money not for schollies and recruiting but for facilities. They know better facilities attract and make better athletes.
Bottom line is that t his guy knows what he's doing. Give him a chance
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Post by PantherU on Sept 29, 2012 9:58:11 GMT -6
It's not that we don't have a plan to build an arena. It's that we don't have a plan to play somewhere in 2013-14.
The Horizon League granted a waiver for us to play in the KC for the 2012-13 season because it was going to help us build the arena. If we're now not building an arena, how are we going to get a waiver for next season?
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Sept 30, 2012 7:26:51 GMT -6
The Panthers will not be going back to the Cell. They are putting money into the KC for years to come.
Loyola re-done arena doesn't even have 5,000 seats. It's a stupid rule by the HL. Many said the UIC-UWM 1st round game looked great on TV filled up. You would not had the same feeling if the game was at the Cell.
Last season, the Panthers did pretty well with attendance. That was helped by the Wisconsin game, Butler coming off of two Final Fours and the Panthers as HL regular season champs. None of the three are in play this season. Season ticket sales would be harder this season if we were still at the Cell.
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Post by justafan on Sept 30, 2012 11:07:11 GMT -6
It's not that we don't have a plan to build an arena. It's that we don't have a plan to play somewhere in 2013-14. The Horizon League granted a waiver for us to play in the KC for the 2012-13 season because it was going to help us build the arena. If we're now not building an arena, how are we going to get a waiver for next season? I've heard the same things you have BP, and it concerns me just as much as it does you. Panther Basketball fans would not be okay with an AD moving a team back to campus in a substandard gym, with no plans for expansion. Panther Basketball fans would not be okay with diverting funds that were to be dedicated to an on-campus basketball arena, for other projects. Panther Basketball fans would not be okay with no immediate plans even for a practice facility. If you don't think that these issues are and will continue to have a negative impact on the program, think again. The potential to save money is minimal, because the Department is not only paying for renovations, but has to pay to increase staff and resources to hold the games on Campus. In my humble opinion, these are just not good moves in the right direction. I will continue to support this program, as I always have, but I'm definitely troubled by the moves being made. |
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Post by illwauk on Sept 30, 2012 16:46:56 GMT -6
"Yes, I understand that Geiger can't build an OSU-style program overnight, but honestly, I don't even want a Big Ten style program at Milwaukee." Not sure what you mean by that. What I mean is that Big Ten programs... from the way they're administrated all the way down to how they actually play on the field... take a super old-school approach to everything. The way their football teams play now isn't all that different from how they played during the 50s & 60s to the point that MAC games are more exciting to watch despite the (supposed) drop-off in talent level. Their basketball teams are also very clunky, fundamental and usually lacking in any type of finesse. If anything, Milwaukee athletics should be the antithesis of a Big Ten program... more flamboyant, cutting-edge, etc. This is something I felt we had during the Bruce Pearl era, but have lacked pretty much ever since. |
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Post by PantherU on Sept 30, 2012 17:59:54 GMT -6
The Horizon League granted a waiver for us to play in the KC for the 2012-13 season because it was going to help us build the arena. If we're now not building an arena, how are we going to get a waiver for next season? Jimmy, you know that isn't an issue. I don't understand why you are making it out to be one. If your AD asks the HL for a 10 year waiver, the HL is going to give it to you on the spot. LeCrone will bend over backwards to accommodate current member institutions. He knows he is currently on the hot seat after Butler left the HL. He isn't going to mess with UWM over the size of your arena. He has much bigger issues to address: HL expansion and our next TV contract (our current one runs out very soon). In regards to arena size, everyone knows the HL is planning on adding Oakland to the conference. Oakland doesn't have an arena that meets HL standards and they have no plans to build a larger arena. Even if LeCrone wanted to give UWM a hard time about your move back to campus, he doesn't have a leg to stand on when he is trying to add a school to the conference in the same boat as you. I think you have a short memory. Lecrone wouldn't even give us a waiver to play the conference tournament in our gym if we won the damn league last year, now the other eight school presidents are going to vote for it to continue? |
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Post by illwauk on Sept 30, 2012 19:23:46 GMT -6
My guess is that Lecrone having the egg of Butler's departure on his face of is going to make him a bit more lenient this time around, but Jimmy does have a point... from Lecrone's POV, I could see why he'd want Milwaukee back in the Cell.
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