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Post by kingsteve on Mar 8, 2012 11:23:45 GMT -6
Pantherfan24... I do get where you are coming from. There are signficant hurdles here yes...in a four year span though we went to the NCAA 3 times and NIT once. Since then in six years a three way regular season conference tie but crashed and burned in our home final unlike the above prior experieinces....an NIT bid and loss, a potential CIT bid...oh yeah. on paper stats we were 20 win wonders... ok...seriously not to diminish and things are better but expectations should be an OCCASSIONAL trip to the NCAA... no one I think is saying every year , every other year or even every three or five although would be great....what I am saying is an occasional signature win outside the conference but most importantly an NCAA bid more than once every ten years. Frankly, if this staff would get to the NCAA twice say in 10 years or even once I would be happy but I see us stuck and in a mediocre pattern. Not too much to expect even with the challenges mentioned in this conference albeit a one bid situation in a lot of years to expect this and other than the first year and again won;t get into that it ain't happened... we have looked awful in some marquis games that we needed to step up to get there and now we lost our three best players...sooo....it can be done, has been done but it ain't been getting done...pardon the slang
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Post by PantherU on Mar 8, 2012 11:49:37 GMT -6
Pearl was not building for the future. Pearl was building for the first train decent train out of town. And before people jump on me, that's OKAY - sometimes coaches put together teams to win one year. Obviously Detroit was built to win this season, and it got them to the NCAA Tournament. One could say that Butler was built to win this season, but Gordon Hayward and Shelvin Mack left early for the NBA so they missed out on this season, what would be their senior year.
I will point out, pantherfan24, that Bruce Pearl did not commit and has not committed any "major" violations of NCAA rules. Both rules violations that are public are "secondary" violations, of which about 1,000 or so happen each year in D-I basketball and don't garner any attention from the NCAA unless they're tied to major violations or mount to 15+ offenses.
Winning isn't the only thing, but it has a lot to do with how our crowd looks. We were first place all the way until about January 20th, so I think a lot of people bought tickets for the later games because of that.
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Post by uwm97 on Mar 8, 2012 12:00:25 GMT -6
I would have no problem hiring a new coach every four years if we made a couple of NCAA's in the meantime. I'd rather have short-timers getting us there than a guy who for seven years has never done it with his own players.
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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 8, 2012 12:08:47 GMT -6
I wouldn't. I'd like someone to build the program, then when they leave, we hire a program guy, keep things going. That way you build a tradition, you build something over time that hopfully doesn't lapse in relavance.
Honestly, if we had to wait 3-4 years to get the NCAA tournament because we hire a guy who builds for his one run then bolts, I would hate it.
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Post by uwm97 on Mar 8, 2012 12:14:22 GMT -6
I somewhat agree with you - the problem is we don't have that guy to build off of. It would have been nice if Forbes or Shay could've been that person to continue Bruce's success, but we instead hired a guy from a different system with no experience. The Butler way - I agree - is preferable. We don't have that at Milwaukee now, however.
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Post by kingsteve on Mar 8, 2012 12:21:17 GMT -6
seems to be a paradigm that the two are mutually exclusive. Seem to recall a guy named Dick Bennett at UWGB... yes he moved on eventually but.....
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Post by illwauk on Mar 8, 2012 15:05:12 GMT -6
The problem with Jeter building our program is that his system is already in place and better established at Madison. Part of what made Pearl's system so effective is that it's not all that common in the Midwest and appealed to players who wouldn't necessarily fit in at a Madison or Marquette. I'm not saying bring back Pearl, but if (and hopefully when) Jeter bolts, we shouldlook towards an up & coming coach in a smaller conference in the Northeast or perhaps a good assistant from the Big East, A-10 or CAA. We're not gonna get anywhere by playing the same type of ball that other bigger, local schools are playing.
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Post by kingsteve on Mar 8, 2012 15:19:45 GMT -6
Pearls system had a way of taking a bunch of guys and revving them up an intensity level both defensively and offensively where they went beyond themselves and played with amazing intensity. Played with a joy and verve that took hem to heights beyond pure talent level although the talent level with Joah, Ed, Boo , Chris and Adrian was pretty darn good ... Neither the style of play , intensity level and/or talent level has come close since under this regime unfortunately though not horrible and trending a bit better at least through this year... that is the problem.. is what it is...
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Post by kingsteve on Mar 8, 2012 15:20:07 GMT -6
fans loved it also
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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 8, 2012 16:04:01 GMT -6
Jeter's system, albeit has elemnts of the Swing, I really feel like its not the same system and its more of his take on it, with additions and subtractions. IMO. Now for his actual coaching style, I will agree it's Bo, right down to the crouching down during team intros.
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Post by GoPanthers33 on Mar 8, 2012 16:04:53 GMT -6
The problem with Jeter building our program is that his system is already in place and better established at Madison. Part of what made Pearl's system so effective is that it's not all that common in the Midwest and appealed to players who wouldn't necessarily fit in at a Madison or Marquette. I'm not saying bring back Pearl, but if (and hopefully when) Jeter bolts, we shouldlook towards an up & coming coach in a smaller conference in the Northeast or perhaps a good assistant from the Big East, A-10 or CAA. We're not gonna get anywhere by playing the same type of ball that other bigger, local schools are playing. Well said. Perfect way to sum it up. |
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Post by GB BB is Back! on Mar 9, 2012 6:58:12 GMT -6
I think Bruce Pearl might have said something like Chad said if 30% of his scoring from the past 5 games spent the night in the hospital vomiting his guts out. It is true that this team has been injured and sick more than the rest of the League. That's easy to see when you pay absolute crap for trainers. If we paid competitively, Trainer Dave Beine would still be our trainer and we wouldn't have had half the problems we did. Why did Lonnie Boga get surgery in the beginning of January when his shoulder was hurt last season? Why did Ja'Rob McCallum get the go-ahead to play before his wrist was ready, thus ending his season six games in? Why was Tony Meier rushed back to play, when it was obvious that until the end of January he was still favoring his injured leg? Why was Kaylon Williams not shut down from practice so he could heal his knee tendonitis, when all that injury needs is a few days of rest to completely heal? Why was Ryan Allen practicing at full speed when it was painfully obvious that he had completely tired legs by January? Anyone notice the amount of dunks Allen had after Christmas compared to before? This season was incredibly undermined by our injury situation, as well as the major flu sickness that permeated through the team in the final month of the regular season all the way up to and including the Butler game. And you can take that to the bank - I'm not going to cower behind a screen name. I said it, I'm not deleting it, bookmark it, even though my name isn't in my screen name everyone knows who posted this. I'm not going to cower and delete something because someone's feelings got hurt. Several of our injury problems were avoidable. The coaches should be given the correct assessment of their players' health if they are to make the best decisions on the floor. I wonder if Nick Fuller and other prospective recruits have read this. Seems like it would be a poor decision for a talented young man to volunteer to play somewhere where he'd be risking his health. |
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Post by GB BB is Back! on Mar 9, 2012 7:03:05 GMT -6
Pearl was not building for the future. Pearl was building for the first train decent train out of town. And before people jump on me, that's OKAY - sometimes coaches put together teams to win one year. Obviously Detroit was built to win this season, and it got them to the NCAA Tournament. One could say that Butler was built to win this season, but Gordon Hayward and Shelvin Mack left early for the NBA so they missed out on this season, what would be their senior year. Isn't this the same approach Jeter is using, just with less success? Jeter brings in more JuCos and transfers than 4 year players. It's left your program short on high upside talent. Who will be on next years pre-season all-conference team? Nobody from Milwaukee. That is no ones fault but Jeters. |
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Post by kingsteve on Mar 9, 2012 9:16:42 GMT -6
Have to give credit where it is due here ....Rob has done a nice job IMO in combining the two models... Case in point....
<Ryan Allen and Paris Gulley - Juco
<Haarsma and Williams - Transers
<Meier, Kelm, Panoske and others.. 4 yr
Problem is taking the talent and inspiring it to a true champsionship level (NCAA)...again, is it unrealistic to expect an NCAA bid every so often? Has not yet happened with is recruits and can not say at least on paper looks particularly likely though as others correctly have stated if we knock on the door enough times who knows?? Would like a little more solid outlook than that but IMO he has til end of contract to do it....if by that time zero NCAA if we do not make change will be dissapointed... We can not settle for less than that....if we do not have higher expectations than that and are ok with what we get year after year with no true NCAA bid then shame on all of us- why bother?
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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 9, 2012 9:45:38 GMT -6
Isn't this the same approach Jeter is using, just with less success? Jeter brings in more JuCos and transfers than 4 year players. It's left your program short on high upside talent. Who will be on next years pre-season all-conference team? Nobody from Milwaukee. That is no ones fault but Jeters. That fine, I could care less about pre-season polls in the Horizon, or any pre-season polls for that matter. I also wouldn't blame Jeter for no one being on said poll, I'll blame injuries, we didn't play the whole season with Ja'Rob or Lonnie, two guys who have carried the team at times in their carriers. |
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