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Mar 25, 2011 7:11:32 GMT -6
Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 25, 2011 7:11:32 GMT -6
Another great win for the Horizon League!
I've heard people say Wisconsin will kill Butler, since UWM beat them twice this season.
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 7:35:04 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2011 7:35:04 GMT -6
Congrats to Butler! They flat out beat the Badgers in every part of the game last night.
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 8:18:08 GMT -6
Post by uwmfutbol on Mar 25, 2011 8:18:08 GMT -6
I don't know about this, folks. Bo's record in the NCAA tournament is 14-10. Prior to his arrival, Wisconsin only had 11 NCAA tournament victories in 62 years. He's only failed to win a first-round game once -- when the Badgers fell to Arizona in Philadelphia in 2008. Maybe they just got beaten by a better team? Alright, now I've had some time to sleep on this. This was a very odd game. I've already mentioned that I wanted the Badgers to win, but by the end of the game I was essentially pulling for Butler because Wisconsin flat-out didn't deserve this one. I think it's difficult to argue which team is truly "better," but a few things separated Butler from Wisconsin, which definitely made them the better team last night, which is all that counts: 1. Hustle. Wisconsin looked lethargic and terrified for the majority of the game until they curiously sprang to life at the end. Butler wanted it more and it showed. They played like a team that apparently still has a lot to prove, and they succeeded. 2. Coaching. I'm not sure how much Brad Stevens out-coached Ryan last night, but based on Ryan's little meltdown at halftime with the reporter (he really acted like a d*uche to that guy, I might add), it was obvious that not only did the players have the deer-in-headlines effect, but so did their coach. Stevens never lost his cool. 3. Defense. Butler was ready for Wisconsin, knowing that they live and die by the three. They left the interior relatively exposed, yet Wisconsin just wouldn't bite. They kept tossing up those damn threes time and again. Finally, they realized this wasn't working and started attacking the interior, which brought them back. Which brings me to my last points... 4. Shooting/Leadership. Butler's leaders got it done. As much as I despise Howard, he embarrassed Jon Leuer last night. I really do feel bad for Leuer, because this was an awful way to end a great career at Madison. Taylor finally got it together in the end, but it was too little too late. Simply put, when you don't sink shots, you don't win. I think this was the net result of my previous points. Anyway, I'm happy for Butler and their fans. They have a great program and a tremendous coach. They represent the Horizon League well. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous (even the Badger fan in me), and I hope they take it to Florida tomorrow. |
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Mar 25, 2011 8:27:45 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2011 8:27:45 GMT -6
I don't know about this, folks. Bo's record in the NCAA tournament is 14-10. Prior to his arrival, Wisconsin only had 11 NCAA tournament victories in 62 years. He's only failed to win a first-round game once -- when the Badgers fell to Arizona in Philadelphia in 2008. Maybe they just got beaten by a better team? Alright, now I've had some time to sleep on this. This was a very odd game. I've already mentioned that I wanted the Badgers to win, but by the end of the game I was essentially pulling for Butler because Wisconsin flat-out didn't deserve this one. I think it's difficult to argue which team is truly "better," but a few things separated Butler from Wisconsin, which definitely made them the better team last night, which is all that counts: 1. Hustle. Wisconsin looked lethargic and terrified for the majority of the game until they curiously sprang to life at the end. Butler wanted it more and it showed. They played like a team that apparently still has a lot to prove, and they succeeded. 2. Coaching. I'm not sure how much Brad Stevens out-coached Ryan last night, but based on Ryan's little meltdown at halftime with the reporter (he really acted like a d*uche to that guy, I might add), it was obvious that not only did the players have the deer-in-headlines effect, but so did their coach. Stevens never lost his cool. 3. Defense. Butler was ready for Wisconsin, knowing that they live and die by the three. They left the interior relatively exposed, yet Wisconsin just wouldn't bite. They kept tossing up those damn threes time and again. Finally, they realized this wasn't working and started attacking the interior, which brought them back. Which brings me to my last points... 4. Shooting/Leadership. Butler's leaders got it done. As much as I despise Howard, he embarrassed Jon Leuer last night. I really do feel bad for Leuer, because this was an awful way to end a great career at Madison. Taylor finally got it together in the end, but it was too little too late. Simply put, when you don't sink shots, you don't win. I think this was the net result of my previous points. Anyway, I'm happy for Butler and their fans. They have a great program and a tremendous coach. They represent the Horizon League well. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous (even the Badger fan in me), and I hope they take it to Florida tomorrow. I was absolutely puzzled by the lack of attention to the post that the Badgers played with last night. Although, this has been an issue with the Badgers for several seasons--they settle for the outside shot way too much. I couldn't understand why Bo didn't use his timeouts to stress this, especially during that horrendous 0/17 shooting span that was close to 10 combined minutes from the end of the first-half to the beginning of the second-half. |
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Mar 25, 2011 9:04:43 GMT -6
Post by gman2 on Mar 25, 2011 9:04:43 GMT -6
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Mar 25, 2011 9:14:07 GMT -6
Post by BBFran on Mar 25, 2011 9:14:07 GMT -6
Butler was just the better team. Congrats to them and I hope they make the FF again.
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 11:56:04 GMT -6
Post by JG Panthers on Mar 25, 2011 11:56:04 GMT -6
I don't know about this, folks. Bo's record in the NCAA tournament is 14-10. Prior to his arrival, Wisconsin only had 11 NCAA tournament victories in 62 years. He's only failed to win a first-round game once -- when the Badgers fell to Arizona in Philadelphia in 2008. Maybe they just got beaten by a better team? Bo's a great coach. A GREAT coach. However, among those 14 NCAA victories, he's had some really outstanding teams. Can anybody tell me how many of those 14 wins came against higher seeds? One... Their only upset came as a 12 seed over 5th seed Florida State. Since then, their best win is against Kansas State this year...another 5 seed. In Bo Ryan's tenure, these are the only two instances in which they've beaten a team seeded higher than 9. They're 2-22 against teams who are ranked higher than a 9 seed. That's poor in my opinion. Especially when you consider that Milwaukee, who has been to the tournament far less obviously, has as many wins over said opponents, and sport a victory over a 4 seed...something Wisconsin hasn't accomplished... |
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 12:03:02 GMT -6
Post by BBFran on Mar 25, 2011 12:03:02 GMT -6
I'll never understand the criticism about seeds, especially from a mid-major perspective. Raise your hand if you think Wisconsin is a better team than Butler. Is it Bo's fault if Butler, UNLV, Cornell and Davidson were obviously underseeded?
You play a lot of lower seeds in the tournament (and therefore you will lose to a lot of lower seeds) only if you are so consistently good in the regular season that you get high seeds in the tournament.
What the hell is wrong with Duke? They got blasted by a lower seed, after all. And if you look at their NCAA losses, they are almost always against lower seeds. Guess why.
Someday we should aspire to be in a position where we can lose to lower seeds in the tourney.
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 12:12:32 GMT -6
Post by uwmplanner on Mar 25, 2011 12:12:32 GMT -6
I don't know about this, folks. Bo's record in the NCAA tournament is 14-10. Prior to his arrival, Wisconsin only had 11 NCAA tournament victories in 62 years. He's only failed to win a first-round game once -- when the Badgers fell to Arizona in Philadelphia in 2008. Maybe they just got beaten by a better team? Bo's a great coach. A GREAT coach. However, among those 14 NCAA victories, he's had some really outstanding teams. Can anybody tell me how many of those 14 wins came against higher seeds? One... Their only upset came as a 12 seed over 5th seed Florida State. Since then, their best win is against Kansas State this year...another 5 seed. In Bo Ryan's tenure, these are the only two instances in which they've beaten a team seeded higher than 9. They're 2-22 against teams who are ranked higher than a 9 seed. That's poor in my opinion. Especially when you consider that Milwaukee, who has been to the tournament far less obviously, has as many wins over said opponents, and sport a victory over a 4 seed...something Wisconsin hasn't accomplished... Where is the 2-22 stat coming from? I am assuming thats a typo because Bo only has 10 losses in the tourny. |
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BU-UW
Mar 25, 2011 12:13:16 GMT -6
Post by JG Panthers on Mar 25, 2011 12:13:16 GMT -6
I'll never understand the criticism about seeds, especially from a mid-major perspective. Raise your hand if you think Wisconsin is a better team than Butler. Is it Bo's fault if Butler, UNLV, Cornell and Davidson were obviously underseeded? You play a lot of lower seeds in the tournament (and therefore you will lose to a lot of lower seeds) only if you are so consistently good in the regular season that you get high seeds in the tournament. What the hell is wrong with Duke? They got blasted by a lower seed, after all. And if you look at their NCAA losses, they are almost always against lower seeds. Guess why. Someday we should aspire to be in a position where we can lose to lower seeds in the tourney. The point isn't that they play too many lower seeds, which they do most of the time. The point is that they can't get far enough in the tournament to beat teams seeded higher than them. For example, Bo Ryan's 2005 team made the Elite 8 by beating 3 consecutive double-digit seeds. Due to luck, they drew teams that they absolutely should beat. If they don't draw these teams year after year, they rarely, if ever make it out of the first weekend. The trouble with Bo's legacy is that he can't beat the teams in the tournament that he should beat. Yes, you're right, they are blessed with high seeds most years, but doesn't that mean that they just have the advantage of playing teams that they SHOULD beat? Why don't they consistently beat these teams? They SHOULD have beat Butler. Ask Vegas. Ask Ken Pomeroy. Ask any projection service out there. Wisconsin was favored for a reason, like they are in most tournament games they play, and they laid an egg. I'm not ready to say Bo CAN'T win the big one, but how many samples do you need before you can turn a hypothesis to a theory? |
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Mar 25, 2011 12:14:50 GMT -6
Post by JG Panthers on Mar 25, 2011 12:14:50 GMT -6
Bo's a great coach. A GREAT coach. However, among those 14 NCAA victories, he's had some really outstanding teams. Can anybody tell me how many of those 14 wins came against higher seeds? One... Their only upset came as a 12 seed over 5th seed Florida State. Since then, their best win is against Kansas State this year...another 5 seed. In Bo Ryan's tenure, these are the only two instances in which they've beaten a team seeded higher than 9. They're 2-22 against teams who are ranked higher than a 9 seed. That's poor in my opinion. Especially when you consider that Milwaukee, who has been to the tournament far less obviously, has as many wins over said opponents, and sport a victory over a 4 seed...something Wisconsin hasn't accomplished... Where is the 2-22 stat coming from? I am assuming thats a typo because Bo only has 10 losses in the tourny. Bad math uwmplanner. It's 2-10. What I meant to say, is that in 24 games they've only beaten 2 teams seeded higher than a 9. |
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Mar 25, 2011 12:20:06 GMT -6
Post by uwmplanner on Mar 25, 2011 12:20:06 GMT -6
Actually I think its 2-8 would be there record against teams seeded higher than 9 because Davidson was a 10 seed and Cornell was a 12 seed. Also I believe Bo beat St Johns in a 8/9 matchup so that would count.
Either way I get your point.
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Mar 25, 2011 12:40:23 GMT -6
Post by milwsport on Mar 25, 2011 12:40:23 GMT -6
Congrats to Butler. I think the Badgers didn't take them seriously until it was too late. They were finally hustling, running to rebounds and racing back on defense with 5 minutes or so left in the game. That was too late.
I also don't understand why they didn't go to the post more often. BUT let's give Butler some credit for that. They pretty much blocked up the paint making it hard for the Badgers to get in there. Combine that with refs who were allowing a lot of contact making it difficult to get the foul call and you have the Badgers going to the three more often than they should have.
All in all a great win for Butler and the HL. Let's hope the Bulldogs can knock of Florida.
Oh yes, one Badger fan told me that "Butler's just not that good. It was all on the Badgers." I wholeheartedly disagreed. You don't make the Elite 8 two years in a row unless you are good team, a VERY good team.
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Mar 25, 2011 13:47:47 GMT -6
Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 25, 2011 13:47:47 GMT -6
Oh yes, one Badger fan told me that "Butler's just not that good. It was all on the Badgers." I wholeheartedly disagreed. You don't make the Elite 8 two years in a row unless you are good team, a VERY good team. I agree, you are one hell of a team to make back to back sweet 16's. That's why I get a chip on my shoudler for the Horizon League to do well. When you sayyy the Horizon League, you said it all!! ;D ;D |
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Mar 25, 2011 15:22:55 GMT -6
Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 25, 2011 15:22:55 GMT -6
After hanging Bo by his thumbs, I think the Badgers should bring back the last coach to guide the team to an Elite Eight and three Sweet 16s over a seven-year period ... or maybe re-hire Bud Foster.
As for Butler, it was 7-7 all time in the tournament before hiring Brad Stevens. Since then, it has gone 9-3. The Bulldogs' furthest advancement prior to last year was the Sweet 16.
Is there any remaining doubt -- even a shred -- about Brad's coaching acumen?
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