crowd YSU 12/10

[bigcatlover]

I completely agree that (1) we should not be satisfied with the current fan support level, and (2) telling people that they "should" come or "must" come is counterproductive; college-age students will never respond to hectoring, because their frame of mind is usually rebellious whenever they hear someone telling them they are wrong (about anything). However, we do not need to insult fellow Horizon League members who visit our board (unless they insult us first, and I do not think circulalum was insulting us, just giving his opinion). Nighthawk, you seem to have a lot of positive ideas to offer, and I hope we can all work together to bring more students in. Since, according to research, the parts of the brain that identify cause-and-effect and consequences are not fully developed until age 21 or older, appeals to the student body must show them how easy it is, how fun it is, etc. Perhaps photos of those at the games, having a great time, should run in the newspaper and be posted around campus -- all over campus -- on home game days with a caption telling when and where to get a bus.

[clarkkp]

'Fairly small in numbers'? It was a pathetic stufdent turnout.

[milwsport]

We've made great strides but we shouldn't be satisfied with what we have. I don't think our UIC friend was suggesting that we should be.

Sometimes it helps to remember that as frustrated and angry as we may get, sports are supposed to be for fun. Being angry at people makes it unfun for them and makes it less likely that they will engage themselves.

As bad as our attendance might seem to us, keep in mind that it's light years ahead of most HL schools. Remember the Loyola games? Year after year, we've outnumbered them in their gym, (which I might add is right next to several dorms).

We have good people, like Nighthawk, Dylan and others working on building a bigger fan base. It will happen


So let's try projecting an attitude of "Of course you'll want to come." Even in the face of repeated rejection we will go much further. Just as we are positive about the long term future of the Panthers we must remain positive about the long term prospects of building a bigger fan base.

[camshaft]

milwsport said:

We've made great strides but we shouldn't be satisfied with what we have. I don't think our UIC friend was suggesting that we should be.

Sometimes it helps to remember that as frustrated and angry as we may get, sports are supposed to be for fun. Being angry at people makes it unfun for them and makes it less likely that they will engage themselves.

As bad as our attendance might seem to us, keep in mind that it's light years ahead of most HL schools. Remember the Loyola games? Year after year, we've outnumbered them in their gym, (which I might add is right next to several dorms).

We have good people, like Nighthawk, Dylan and others working on building a bigger fan base. It will happen


So let's try projecting an attitude of "Of course you'll want to come." Even in the face of repeated rejection we will go much further. Just as we are positive about the long term future of the Panthers we must remain positive about the long term prospects of building a bigger fan base.

I wholeheartedly agree, we must not point fingers and throw accusations around, to an outsider (read: potential fans) it would appear to be completely uninviting. When you want to sell something you need to be a bit more positive about it, this includes being friendly to people at the games and when discussing the Panthers elsewhere. Remember, its all about encouraging Panther Nation and not putting people off to the program.

While I can easily identify with some of the negativity earlier in this thread I prefer to be more positive and hopeful about the growth of the program. Lets start by being as welcoming as possible to potential fans as well as the fans at the games (we want repeat offenders to the cell - remember).

[circlealum]

nighthawk said:

You'll forgive me if my aspirations for fan support and the profile of the program rise just a bit above those of UIC.

I expect more from the students, because they are capable of more.

And you must be a UIC grad, because I specifically stated that academics are essential, but so are athletics. I did not state or imply, as you claim, that athletics is linked to academic reputation.

I stated quite clearly that athletic success raises the national profile of the University, which draws new students from farther away, and increases alumni interest in the success of the school, both athletically and academically.

And the proof is right there for all to see. Following the Sweet 16, enrollment increased from both in and out of state, and alumni have been more public and forthcoming with donations ($100 Million Project, etc.).

Take your small-time thinking, your happy-with-what-we-have attitude, and go sit in a "half-full" Pavilion and never out grow the Horizon league.

I prefer to push to grow. I prefer to have higher goals. I prefer to challenge the students to get out and get vocal. I want them to care more than they do now.

But isn't that always the difference between UIC and UWM??

he difference is that while sports have historically mattered little at UWM, they haven't historically mattered AT ALL at UIC.

I mentioned the empty Pavilion only to point out that it is not reasonable to demand that today's students do what our generation was not willing to do. Students should be encouraged to participate, and congratulated when they can find the time. But demanding or expecting it is not right, even if your intentions are good. As alums, it is our job to support our schools, not dictate how current students relate to them. The best (and only) thing we can do is set an example.

You've made it clear that you hold UIC in low esteem. I think we hold up our end of the bargain quite well, both academically and in sports, but you are entitled to your opinion. And while it is fine to express your dissatisfaction with the status quo, you need to take care not to insinuate that UWM sucks by association, or that it is damaged goods until that situation is remedied. UWM is a fine school with many outstanding programs RIGHT NOW, and the students who go there do so because it offers them something TODAY.

And you haven't answered why 2000+ apathetic, don't care UWM students made it to the Marquette game last fall. Any thoughts about that?

[bball30]

What MU game are you talking about?

[milwsport]

The soccer game. It was the first night game at Engleman field. Biggest soccer crowd in UWM history. People were standing four and five deep all around the field and the bleachers were full to the max.

At least half maybe more of the 4,000 in attendance were UWM students.

[schweaty]

ghostoffreak said:

"Maybe it's not 'cool' to like the Panthers this year because its a rebuilding year, but it UWM ever wants to be mentioned in the same breath as UW or Marquette, the students need to show up."

I hate to say it, but liking the Panthers has never been "cool" on campus. Students have only ever attended for ESPN or Tournament games. So far, this is just a normal season for student interest.

When your conference schedule puts you up against big Horizon League hitters like Youngstown State and Cleveland State that automatically makes you "uncool". I guess nobody showed up for the big UAB game either, right? People don't want to watch games against nobody teams. I've heard so many people say "Yeah. They play in the Horizon League".

The only hope for us is to leave the credibility-killing conference, or for the conference to get some teams with name-recognition. Maybe if this were Green Bay and we were the only entertainment option besides the Pack it'd be okay but with competition from the Bucks and from Marquette there's just not any demand.

[schweaty]

nighthawk said:

When I refer to "fans", I use the term sarcastically (thus the quotes).

I saw you in the gorilla suit, and complimented you, at half time in the smokers lounge, too.

My issue is the students unlike yourself, who show no interest in the supporting the exploits of their fellow students on the court.

Those multi pierced, rainbow haired, east side, elitist, freak shows who look down their noses at the "dumb jocks". Those, who in all likelihood will be working for a "dumb jock" someday. Those who will be serving food at McDonald's to "dumb jocks" as they continue to try to "find themselves" when they are 30 and living with their parents.

Perhaps I should write an open letter to the Post, but I doubt it would ever get printed.

I apologize to those of you on the board who are students and make the effort to attend the games. Keep it up. You are appreciated. While your numbers are small now, you make us alums proud.

Your bothers and sisters who don't go, however, can kiss my butt. You people make me sick, and make UWM look like a second class school.

And for those who feel that sports are a waste of money and should not be promoted, point me to the Wharton School of Business hats at Lids, and show me the televised coverage of intercollegiate forensics meets.

After the sweet 16, enrollment went up at UWM more than ever before. And it wasn't because of the success of the science lab teams experimentations, either.

Maybe if these idiots had gone to UWM when I did, and had to correct people that the M in UWM did not, in fact, stand for Madison (even in Milwaukee) would understand that the recent success of the basketball program has raised the NATIONAL profile of UWM.

I am so mad right now, I could scream.

HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Right on. They gota milk the living crap out of that sweet 16 bid. Santiago has to pump some serious money into this program before it fades into obscurity, and I'm afraid it already is starting to fade.

[milwsport]

I'm really tired of this negativity. One down year does NOT mean we are fading. With our current record I'm surprised attendance hasn't been worse.

As for the obsecurity of the HL teams, who heard of Missouri State, Northern Iowa and some of the other teams in the MVC before that league assumed prominence? The same thing that happened in the MVC can happen for the Horizon League. With the rise of Butler and Loyola, some would say it already is beginning to happen.

And it's not impossible to compete against the Bucks and MU. We just have to continue to build a tradition, reach out the Alumns and area businesses etc. Those things are being done and they will pay off.

[schweaty]

Good point about the MVC. If UWM got into that conference that'd be the first step in competing against the Bucks and MU. Now if the Bucks leave Milwaukee, then UWM's in business.