crowd YSU 12/10

[ABPantherFan]

I hope you get counseling, your posts are embarrassing. Chill out, get a girlfriend, relax, life is too short to worry about student attendance at a UWM/Youngstown State game.

Do not forget what it was like to be a student and what was important to you at that time. Pretty sure watching a bad basketball game at noon following a night of Saturday partying was high on the agenda!

[nighthawk]

abpantherfan said:

I hope you get counseling, your posts are embarrassing. Chill out, get a girlfriend, relax, life is too short to worry about student attendance at a UWM/Youngstown State game.

My wife might have an issue with some of your suggestions.

As for a need for coucelling, this is my way of venting my anger and emotions. I'm rather well adjusted, thank you very much. I appreciate your concern, though.

And it wasn't just a game against Youngstown State. It was the conference opener and the first home game in since November.

[famouspnthrfan]

I don't know ABPantherFan...had I been in town on Sunday I would have without a doubt gone to the game drunk, hungover, or missing my pinky fingers...I regret not having gone to the last 2 home games...and I almost feel like I've let down the team...however, if you are not willing to go to a free game to SUPPORT YOUR UNIVERSITY even if you are hungover...than you have no school spirit and after all may not be a fan...

[stiner55]

i agree! this is total crap that students can't come to a noon game that free stuff is given away at! especially since it's the conference opener! there is no excuse why no one showed up the packer game wasn't on until after the game, if you're worried that people can't take partying on saturday and getting up for a game at noon i call to atttention football games in madison those guys are up at the break of dawn even after getting crazy on friday night! the excuses that our student body is giving for not coming to the games are weak! i would expect more especially what our team has given us the last few years! people this is when they need us the most and we're abandoning them! what does that say about our character?

[boosyourdaddy]

Its actually good to start putting names with faces from the board, i think we have had intelligent basketball conversation a few times before in the smokers area, without the suit on of course. I really like the idea of writing something to the school paper. I think if they get enough or a couple very well written and convincing ones they will definitely publish them. Its getting harder and harder to recruit people to go these games but on a lot of our ends its even harder to stay away even if they do not end up winning another game. This isn't permanent, I think we see that by now, its just difficult when the only thing you are used to success. The promise of next year alone is going to make it hard for me to graduate and relocate after this year.

[JimmyLemke]

Everyone here has a point, and everyone here has something wrong with what they're saying too.

Nate - You've got a right to be pissed at the students. Unlike SDSU and Tenn Tech, the students SHOULD have been at this game. These kids are turning down a golden opportunity to find entertainment. I highly doubt that all those students that don't go to games are actually doing something that is worthy of their time, such as studying. Apathy is killing the student section. By the way, send that letter to the Post... [e-mail], and send a CC to me at [e-mail] so I can see it. We're done printing for the semester, but if you'd like, I can see if I can get it in the first issue next semester. If they won't print it under letters to the editor, I'll put it on the budget for Sports. Man, I love this job.

Pantherdon - You are correct, student attendance always picks up in the second semester, which brings Hack's point...

Hack - I think it's a big scheduling problem in the Horizon League. No team should be playing only 3 league home games while students are in session. Every team should have at least half (4) of their conference home games after students get back in the second semester.

The problem is scheduling. We shouldn't be scheduling ANY home games over Thanksgiving break, whether they are before or after. We shouldn't be slammed by the Horizon League every season, whereas Butler gets 6 home games in a row in the second semester(last season). Success is the most prominent reason students go to games, but you must know that scheduling factors in as well.

[Deleted]

Our students are first UW-Madison fans, MU fans second, and UWM fans last. Its been like that well before Bo Ryan came to the school. Certainly a sad reality. During Pearl's first two years our student section was generally around 50 students per game. During the Sweet 16 run we were able to gain more fans, but they were just coming on the bandwagon in March. Last season we had a decent student showing, but even that was very low during testing and holidays. The 05-06 HL tournament student section was smaller than in 04-05.

Go by the UWM bus stops before a MU game. One bus may have more students wearing Gold Eagle gear than we have for a home game! Same goes for UW football games. I would guess that a hundred, or even more, UWM students travel to Madison every Saturday for Badger football.

Also, Nighthawk this statement is extremely unfair.

Those multi pierced, rainbow haired, east side, elitist, freak shows who look down their noses at the "dumb jocks". Those, who in all likelihood will be working for a "dumb jock" someday. Those who will be serving food at McDonald's to "dumb jocks" as they continue to try to "find themselves" when they are 30 and living with their parents.

Many of these people I think you are referring to make huge strides for UWM, just not in athletics. Our main financial gains are not coming from the basketball court, but rather from winning grants and receiving other private donations for advances in academics. Yes, most of these students could care less about athletics. In my department I am the only student going to basketball games, and one of the few who even watches sports. I have not attended a game since non-conference. Too busy writing papers and other things related to my work at the university.

Why pick on this one group of students? We average 30 students a game. Its unanimous that all students at UWM dont care about basketball.

You just bashed characteristics of some of UWM's most brilliant students. These individuals are making far greater advances for UWM than any sport team could.

Take Care,
UWMfreak
ps. BTW, you described someone from the 1980s punk era. That fashion ended years ago, I can't remember the last time I saw someone dressed like that on campus. There is a small punk enclave in Bay View, but that certainly is not the Upper East Side.

[nighthawk]

I guess I'm showing my age a bit, then.

I'll go with:

"Long haired, maggot infested, dope smoking, FM types" (Limbaugh joke.)

Seriously, though, I am not advocating a secondary role for academics. I don't want to be an alum of Cincinnati, after all. I am proud, too, of the academic and research advances being made by the University.

I myself have begun to pursue a funding mechanism for the new School of Public Health.

That said, those people you describe as disinterested I would describe as narrowly focused. Starting with the ancient Greeks, intellectual achievement was not considered superior to athletic achievement. In fact, one was only considered to be truly a person of high regard if he chased both the physical and mental challenges.

To the students of UWM who are fans of programs other than their own schools in sports in which we field a team (i.e. NOT football), you have every right to do so. And I have every right to wish you would just leave for that other school and never come back.

It's time that UWM students began to self police this "who cares" attitude on campus. the next time a friend wears an MU shirt, rip the living sh*t out of him or her until it never happens again. And don't feel bad for it, either.

It's may be a matter of choice on whom you root for, but that choice should be made after you choose a school.

Even if you are an MU or UW fan and go to UWM, have the common sense to not wear it on the campus of the school you actually attend. that's just tacky and lame. And you deserve to be ripped.

If you are a UWM student, you should feel some sense of community and belonging to UWM, including sports. Unless your a total bandwagon fan, in which case, go ahead and root for the Golden Chickens, Bears, and any other team that's good this season.

Why is it so d*mn hard for this student body to understand the concept of school spirit. And the faculty is no better, either.

And people wonder why the UW and MU fans and alums snicker at us and look down on us? We let them. H*ll, we do it to ourselves.

Well, I say, NO MORE. It stops here and now.

DO NOT TOLERATE THE BEHAVIOR AND THE BEHAVIOR WILL CEASE.

[zvillehaze]

jimmylemke said:

We shouldn't be slammed by the Horizon League every season, whereas Butler gets 6 home games in a row in the second semester(last season).

Jimmy ... can you point out the games you're referring to here? butlersports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/butl-m-baskbl-sched-2005.html I see three consecutive home games in early February, but can't find the six game streak you guys over here keep referring to. (Here's a hint ... you might want to check the Loyola schedule.)

But I won't deny that Butler gets preferential treatment ... just check out last January when they had games at Chicago, Youngstown, Cleveland, Indy and back to Chicago in a span of 11 days.

[repoman]

Nighthawk, I couldn't agree more. I also drive to every game from Waukesha (only missing one this year) and don’t seem to have a problem with the Packer game, the cold, or any other excuse. The games are on my calendar the day the schedule comes out and if I can’t make it, its usually because of work meetings.

With every NCAA appearance and win, UWM's profile was raised. Before the Sweet 16 run, we were blip on the radar. Yeah we made the tournament in 2003 and almost beat Notre Dame, but almosts are forgotten quickly, wins live on much longer. I still think that the win against BC to make the Sweet 16 two years ago was one of the top 10 moments in Wisconsin sports history for me. I had relatives from out of state who were e-mailing during the 2004 season because it was the first time they had heard about UWM from someone besides me. No matter what the academics, hipsters, and naysayers claim, Athletics are one of the most defining aspects of a college campus. The average student doesn't give a crap about the Milwaukee Idea or how much in grant funding the school gets. They want to know about the campus, the status of the programs they are interested in, the nearby neighborhood, the social activities, and the athletics.

There are always going to be students who don't care about sports at every campus, so you don't really need to worry about getting them to the games, its just not going to happen. You need to get the sports fans and even casual sports fans involved. There are a ton of college basketball fans on campus, you just need to tap into that market.

The postings about the Gasthaus on this board are troublesome. It should be like Marquette's Annex on game days. The whole theme of the bar should be UWM Panthers. They should consider changing the name of the bar to reflect it. In my opinion it hasn’t really been the Gasthaus since they renovated it anyway so the name isn’t sacred. They should put all of the trophies and other awards down there as well. Make it so if you go in there you can’t help but think about UWM athletics. Have one of the busses leave from the Union and have pre and post game parties there. If management of the Gasthaus is not receptive, replace the management.

I would say that the Student Association should be more involved in the promotion of the Panthers, but if things are anything like when I was there, they are more concerned with supporting all kinds of fringe groups and advancing their own agendas than actually doing anything for the majority of students on Campus. Athletics is the last thing on their minds…unless it helps them to get reelected to the student senate.

I also think that some of this falls on Bud and Jeter. Bruce Pearl was out there promoting UWM like no other from the second he walked on campus. Student's couldn't help but get excited about the program. With Pearl showing up anywhere and everywhere. I know Jeter and Pearl are two different people, but I think that is something that is missing. I think that Bud has done some great things for the program, but maybe we need someone else to take it to the next level.

[bball30]

Some of you are missing things on the greater level. This entire neighborhood doesn't want UWM athletics to succeed. For that matter, the majority of this side of town doesn't want the University itself to succeed. The student body is constantly fighting our own city government for fair treatment, the University needs to grow, and people plain and simple won't let it. Faculty as well are to blame, as I have had two teachers in my five years even make mention of UWM athletics. We need the pride to start from the top, we are a research based university, thus, all the money we do receive goes straight to research for academia. I know it gets said all the time, but the rants like this are just preaching to the choir on this one.

[milwsport]

I was at the game. I brought a friend with me and we drove from Madison to be there. So it's hard for me to understand students that like sports, have free admission, and can hop a free bus to get there not showing up.

Even if you aren't all that into UWM, it's still D1 Basketball, it's free and it's a good time.

That's what any letters to the editor should emphasize. Yelling at people, calling them names etc. will only turn people off.

Tell them how it helps the University and that helps them when they are out job hunting with their degrees. Point out the benefits of going and having fun for free.

But express anger, say no one cares, and blast them and you will make people defensive, reinforce the stereotype that it's not cool to go and tick people off.

PS I went to all the UW home football games this year. The student section is normally about 1/4 full at kick off, 1/2 full at the end of the 1st quarter, 3/4 full at half time and 90% full by the end of the 3rd quarter.

It's so bad that the coach made a public appeal for the students to show up on time.

The idea that UW Madison students are such great fans is simply not true.

[circlealum]

nighthawk said:

[snip]

If you are a UWM student, you should feel some sense of community and belonging to UWM, including sports. Unless your a total bandwagon fan, in which case, go ahead and root for the Golden Chickens, Bears, and any other team that's good this season.

Why is it so d*mn hard for this student body to understand the concept of school spirit. And the faculty is no better, either.

And people wonder why the UW and MU fans and alums snicker at us and look down on us? We let them. H*ll, we do it to ourselves.

Well, I say, NO MORE. It stops here and now.

DO NOT TOLERATE THE BEHAVIOR AND THE BEHAVIOR WILL CEASE.

Your rant is so out of line that I feel compelled to respond.

I, like you, am an alum of a school that dwells in the shadow of the state flagship. In my case, I attended the Circle Campus of the University of Illinois, now known as UIC.

As a UIC fan, I find your criticism of the UWM student-fans laughable. Your kids are far more enthusiastic supporters of your sports teams than UIC's have EVER been. What on earth are you complaining about?

Let me start off by reminding you that while we all have emotional attachments to our former schools, these attachments are largely the figment of our selective memory of our college experiences. There is no way an 18-22 year old is going to feel the same way. He/She is living it and experiencing it now, not sitting there with rose-colored glasses looking back nostalgically on his lost youth. Anyone who has chosen to attend a college is going to assume that he/she is going to get a first rate education. Its a GIVEN that the school is good. The name recognition of a school is far more important to someone in the job market.

And a school is what it is. A university. A place of higher education. Not a day camp, or a minor league sports franchise. Those kids are there to get an education, first and foremost. If they have time to go to a basketball and act goofy, that's fine, but that should NEVER be their first order of business.

Your implication of some implied linkage between sports and the academic reputation of the school is laughable. Have you ever heard of the University of Chicago? How good is THEIR basketball team? Ask any professor that has taught around the country and they will tell you the same thing: A few notable exceptions aside, sports tend to be a much bigger deal in universities located away from major urban centers because there isn't a whole lot else to do.

The last point I want to make is that a comparison of student attendance numbers for soccer and basketball may shed some light on part of what is going on. At UIC, basketball maintains the highest profile among alums and the general public, but among students, soccer is out-drawing basketball by roughly 8 to 1, and the soccer players are now the celebs around campus.

How many student fans showed up to your Marquette game last fall? Could it be that basketball isn't really top dog at UWM these days, either? Can you accept (and live with) the fact that the basketball games may be more for YOU than for the students?

I accept and live with it every time I go to a UIC basketball game and see an empty student section. I am not happy about it, but I was also sitting there the year the Pavilion opened, when nobody, and I mean NOBODY (other than the parents and the cheerleaders) were at the games. We (and I mean collectively UIC and UWM) have made considerable progress, so I prefer to see the glass half full.

I highly recommend you do the same.

[PJD]

I disagree with this statement...

Some of you are missing things on the greater level. This entire neighborhood doesn't want UWM athletics to succeed. For that matter, the majority of this side of town doesn't want the University itself to succeed.

You just need to understand that both the school and the neighborhood need to co-exist. UWM holds a great advantage over other schools in urban environments with the nice neighborhood that surrounds it. That is a huge selling point to parents (and students) when they come and visit the school. I'd certainly rather have my child living around our campus than around MU, for example. Do you realize how much MU spends on security and public saftey for their students? You can't expect city homes valued at 300k and up (many well over 1 Mil) to make more way for more school expansion. The school needs it's own green space for the students also. The school could never afford to acquire the property anyway. Both in Milwaukee and certainly in Shorewood where I live, have a very large number of residents with UWM ties live and are good advocates for the school. I've got a few professors that live on my block alone. The neighborhoods are dependent on the school and value it's proximity. I didn't even mention the many property owners and businesses that depend on it. They want to see the school succeed in all phases, including athletics. There are challenges for sure. Traffic flow is a bit of an issue. A large portion of the traffic that flows down Capitol and onto Oakland is all from the School. Busses from the shuttle lot by WTMJ is a prime example. We are limited on access from the west with the river. The acquisition of Columbia will be a big help. The Kenilworth and Riverwest projects are also good examples of where the University was able to expand and mesh with the neighborhoods. The school is finding ways to expand. It would be very tough to add an arena on campus. The Cell downtown is where the team needs to be. We have good proximity to it from campus and the bars, restaurants, etc... are a good draw to fans who come to the game. That would be more limited with an on campus location given what we have around the school right now. With the shuttles all students are more than capable of getting there. They do all the time to go out anyway when they go out downtown.

[nighthawk]

circlealum said:

nighthawk said:

[snip]

If you are a UWM student, you should feel some sense of community and belonging to UWM, including sports. Unless your a total bandwagon fan, in which case, go ahead and root for the Golden Chickens, Bears, and any other team that's good this season.

Why is it so d*mn hard for this student body to understand the concept of school spirit. And the faculty is no better, either.

And people wonder why the UW and MU fans and alums snicker at us and look down on us? We let them. H*ll, we do it to ourselves.

Well, I say, NO MORE. It stops here and now.

DO NOT TOLERATE THE BEHAVIOR AND THE BEHAVIOR WILL CEASE.

Your rant is so out of line that I feel compelled to respond.

I, like you, am an alum of a school that dwells in the shadow of the state flagship. In my case, I attended the Circle Campus of the University of Illinois, now known as UIC.

As a UIC fan, I find your criticism of the UWM student-fans laughable. Your kids are far more enthusiastic supporters of your sports teams than UIC's have EVER been. What on earth are you complaining about?

You'll forgive me if my aspirations for fan support and the profile of the program rise just a bit above those of UIC.

I expect more from the students, because they are capable of more.

And you must be a UIC grad, because I specifically stated that academics are essential, but so are athletics. I did not state or imply, as you claim, that athletics is linked to academic reputation.

I stated quite clearly that athletic success raises the national profile of the University, which draws new students from farther away, and increases alumni interest in the success of the school, both athletically and academically.

And the proof is right there for all to see. Following the Sweet 16, enrollment increased from both in and out of state, and alumni have been more public and forthcoming with donations ($100 Million Project, etc.).

Take your small-time thinking, your happy-with-what-we-have attitude, and go sit in a "half-full" Pavilion and never out grow the Horizon league.

I prefer to push to grow. I prefer to have higher goals. I prefer to challenge the students to get out and get vocal. I want them to care more than they do now.

But isn't that always the difference between UIC and UWM??