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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 17:21:04 GMT -6
I got a response to my earlier email to him where in I asked him to review the tapes. His response was:
"Thanks for your note. We are working on the crowd control issues and will monitor those issues at the tourney game Tuesday."
I replied: Thanks for your response. It seems like you are blaming the fans for responding to some truly horrible officiating. I certainly hope that is not the case.
There weren't any "crowd control issues." No one stormed the court. Nothing was thrown on the court. The worst the crowd did was chant "Worst Refs Ever" and "Three blind mice." They can hardly be blamed for not sitting quietly while your crew called 23 fouls on their team and only 10 on their opponents (in the second half).
There was plenty of pushing and shoving by BOTH teams under the basket, but one team was penalized for it and one was not.
Even the elderly fans (who in my section normally sit quietly) were joining the chants. . Does the Horizon League really expect fans to remain quiet in that situation? And if they don't, is that a "crowd control" issue?
That's not even to mention, the refs telling the Panther band it couldn't play when the ball was not in play and the clock was stopped.
Please review the tapes, which I have hope audio and I think you may realize that it is "ref control" and not 'crowd control" that is the issue.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 16:46:09 GMT -6
Big D,
Perhaps you don't realize that in the second half the foul count was 23 fouls on UWM and 10 on UIC. In fact, UIC went for almost 9 minutes without a foul being called on them in the second half. Meanwhile they calling fouls on us at the rate of over 1 per minute.
Anyone watching this game saw plenty of pushes and shoves under the basket from BOTH teams. Yet only one team was being penalized. We saw players who didn't make contact being called for fouls by refs who were in no position to see the play.
We saw a spectacular dunk by Ricky Franklin taken away when he was called for fouling Vandermeer, who was nowhere Ricky. And we saw touch fouls (some of which weren't even touches) being called everytime we got close.
We were all unhappy with the reffing in our loss to Valpo but NO ONE was blaming the refs for that loss. Our poor FT shooting and shot selection cost us that game. But in this instance, it didn't seem to matter what we did. They simply weren't going to let us win this game.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 11:41:36 GMT -6
According to the HL website, the guy to email is John Adams. His email address is According to the HL site, the email address for the man in charge of Basketball officials is:
jwasports1@aol.com
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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 11:23:51 GMT -6
Keep in mind that watching the crowd gives you a built in excuse to miss some pretty blantant fouls committed against the team you want to hose.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 11:08:55 GMT -6
I have never seen a vocal reaction towards refs that I saw coming from Panther fans last night. Even the Milwaukee Police Captain in my section was up screaming "Worst refs ever" at the top of his lungs.
My partner who always tells me how we and not the refs lost the game, actually turned to me and said "I hate to say it but in this instance the refs just took the game away from us."
Consider the call on the Franklin dunk. How the hell could he have fouled a guy who was nowhere near him. That call said it all.
We had problems with their zone and did attempt too many 3's, but consider the reasons why. Time after time we saw Avercamp and others get hammered in the post without any calls. What were they supposed to do?
On the other hand time after time we saw a Panther get called for a touch foul on the other end of the court. That these fouls seemed to get called most often after a missed UIC bucket seemed to be no coincidence. Look at the foul they called on Kaylan after UIC threw the ball out of bounds. The UIC player bumped him and he got the whistle.
Then there was the foul they called on Swigget as time was winding down. He wrapped his hands around the ball. It was ALL BALL, and right in front of us. The ref who blew the whistle was behind the play and couldn't possibly have seen any foul.
Anyone wanting more proof should've come to Goolsby after the game. Several members of a large party of UIC fans stood and applauded some of the Panthers as they came in. Even more incredible they told them "you guys really earned the win."
These refs didn't just scare children, threaten a band, deprive our seniors of a victory and hand UIC the win, they also cheated Cleveland State out of the second seed in the tourney and they deprived UIC the chance to win the game honestly.
They need to go and not just Benedict, ALL of them.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 1, 2008 15:13:53 GMT -6
Once again I suggest doing a survey. Find out why students are coming and why they aren't. Is it the team, the record, the game location, transportation issues, a lack of time, interest in basketball, sports in general or knowledge about the schedule or whatever.
Structure the questions well so there's no bias and ask them professionally. (People won't be honest if they think they'll get into an arguement.)
In other words find out why more students aren't coming. Yes we all have our opinions on it but find out the facts and design a marketing campaign based on the results.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 1, 2008 11:50:22 GMT -6
Wherever the section is, we have to do a better job of getting students out. The Valpo game, where there students took a six hour ride to be here was embarassing. They had almost as many students there as we did.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 3, 2008 7:42:55 GMT -6
Big D, in the first half the game was called fairly and the score was tied. In the second half, there were some blantantly bad calls and some blantantly bad non calls and the crowd responded.
In the second half they called 23 fouls on UWM and 10 on UIC. At least five of the calls on us were highly questionable. At least 10 not made on the Flames were highly suspect. As for the T it was called on Jeter.
And yes we didn't have a good answer to Vandermeer but that situation existed in both halves. Yet in one half when the game was called fairly, it didn't matter, the score was even. In the other half when it wasn't and Vandermeer was able to elbow, push, grab and shove and anyone who came close to him was called on a foul, it did.
Nothing against your team. They're good and represent UIC well. But you've been coming to this board for years. When have you ever seen this kind of uproar over the refs before? That alone should tell you how bad this was.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 2, 2008 17:33:19 GMT -6
Well put Dylan. I don't know who Panther103 is but I find it hard to understand how 3 intentional fouls at the end of the game really run up our total that much.
And let's not forget the UIC player who ran into and over Ricky (I think it was Ricky) to get to the paint right in front of two refs with nothing being called. That non call was soon followed by a foul called on us (I think it was Swigget) for touching the guy he was guarding as the UIC player dribbled from one side of the court to the other.
No one is saying that all of the fouls called on us were bad calls, some were and some weren't. What people are saying is that the reffing was one sided.
It's truly hard to watch something like that and not think the refs had it in for us.
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Post by milwsport on Mar 1, 2008 11:45:27 GMT -6
While Sutton does make some mistakes, I think he's okay. He does a decent job and he conveys a sense of being enthsiastic about the team.
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Post by milwsport on Feb 26, 2008 7:28:56 GMT -6
It sure didn't look good. I doubt we'll see him on the floor for the next two games.
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Post by milwsport on Feb 27, 2008 14:10:18 GMT -6
It still rankled me that during our game there we had all those fouls called due to the Valpo flop. Then they come here and take our two best players out of the game. That upsets me much more than calling a time out when the game had been decided.
But I guess all three are examples of poor sportsmanship.
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Post by milwsport on Feb 27, 2008 12:28:19 GMT -6
If you guys are so concerned over an inadvertant time out call in a fairly close game...then you have more problems than I thought. Move on for God's sake.....worry about something important, like getting your team healthy and not having you best players leave, even if in the long run it helped you. Jeter overreacted and you're trying to make it a big deal....give it a rest How do you call "an inadvertant time out"? It seems to me that you have to put your hands together to make a T. That's hardly the kind of motion that anyone would normally make. Maybe it's like inadvertantly falling on the fall when the hot hand on the opposing team comes within six inches of you resulting in some inadvertant foul calls late in the game on your home court. Or perhaps, it's like an inadvertant thumb in the eye or an inadvertant tackle under the basket? Things that inadvertantly knocks your opponents two best players out of the game.
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Post by milwsport on Feb 26, 2008 7:27:58 GMT -6
People near me were wondering if it was just a coincidence that our two big guys go down within a minute or two of each other. Best line in that regard was "We play there and we get the Valpo flop. We play here and we see the Valpo chop."
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Post by milwsport on Feb 23, 2008 15:51:13 GMT -6
It's a little early to speculate on that. I think if RJ were to attract the national spotlight with a team of freshmen and sophmores and attendance was way up, he might stay.
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