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Post by panthersteve on Mar 16, 2023 15:55:18 GMT -6
Anyone familiar with my rants over the years know that I have been a huge proponent of the Arena, especially now with naming rights and largely themed to our signage. Beautiful facility. The KC should only be used rarely for an exhibtion game or two and not more than a couple times each year. Never again for a HLT tourney game. All this being said I would be in favor of something like the Gentile Centeer at Loyola but there are major obstacles in no particular order, financing unless someone like a Herb Kohl emerged and hope is not a strategy. There looks like no adequate footprint on campus. Neighborhood objections, . An extensive rehab of KC would not get the desired result for all the trouble. I could see the North Avenue thing but again do not foresee the financial or political support either local or with State legislature. So lets focus on renewing our naming rights and lease at the Arena, build a winning program and increased attendance. Size of the building not ideal but most practical given all the above possible or shall I say likely impossible scenarios unfortunately
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Post by panthersteve on Mar 16, 2023 16:02:01 GMT -6
I have to state the obvious. If the University wants to be penny wise and dollar foolish and sink the program for good they willnot renew the Arena lease and go back to the KC. I am hoping Lundy did not unintionally help to cause this to happen with playing that game at the KC and winning. We should have won thatgame anyway at the Arena as only the week before lost one at the KC and then won against a better team at the Arena I still have a nagging suspicion that it was money driven and came from AB and Lundy played the good soldier with Warras mouthing the propaganda. They both looked clinically depressed or alternatively over reaching on that video. Frankly I hope I am wrong on this
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Post by TBone on Mar 16, 2023 16:35:37 GMT -6
Thank you for your thoughtful questions, I wish I had the time to answer all of them. In terms of a university events center and arena being located on campus, why is the Student Union or the Klotsche Center & Pavilion located on campus? It's been said that athletics is the front porch of a NCAA D1 university. If athletics is truly the front porch of UWM, shouldn't the front porch be located on its campus? I will say, that I'm amazed that a number of other public universities that compete in mid-major basketball which belong to state university systems have built on campus arenas since 2010 but for UWM it's out of the question. As a result, UWM must be relegated to a large, cavernous arena which has a capacity magnitudes larger than its average attendance. Furthermore, this current arena is over 70 years old, and is owned and operated by the Wisconsin Center District. The Student Union houses a number of organizations, offices and facilities used almost exclusively by students. The Klotsche center does the same. They're both on campus, and deservedly so, for the same reasons that the library is. A sports arena does not have the same usage model as either of those buildings. Ideally, yes, the arena should be on campus. If you could start over and build the campus from scratch, one would hope (and think) there would be plans for an actual sports arena on campus. Realistically however, there are a number of complications that has made this possibility far more difficult to realize than those other universities you mention. I don't think anyone is saying it's out of the question to eventually have an on-campus (or near-campus in the case of something on North Ave) arena, but it would definitely be incredibly difficult - both financially and politically.
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Post by DunneDeal on Mar 17, 2023 7:44:36 GMT -6
One factor when we talk about why other mid-majors have on campus.
Look at the city/towns theses comparison schools are in. Are they the only show in town, is the arena easy to get to from the major roads/freeways.
UWM has an awesome location, once you get there.
It's 1 or 2 Lane traffic on all routes from the Freeway to Campus.
Capitol Drive is a zoo at rush hour, this is your best route from the North.
Locust is the most direct route to campus in terms of off ramp. It's mostly 1 Lane, traffic backs up thru Riverwest and at the Oak/Loc intersection.
North Ave is a route most would take, because it gives you access to restaurants and bars for a pre-game meal. First you have to find parking on North, then eat/drink, load in and drive to campus, and try to find parking again.
Downtown is simple, find parking. then you can walk to any number of bars and restaurants in the area. All of MLK/Old World Third, Majors, Calderone, Docs, and a further walk you could hit up the 3rd St Marketplace
Other universities have easy access to campuses typically.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 17, 2023 16:31:14 GMT -6
In terms of a university events center and arena being located on campus, why is the Student Union or the Klotsche Center Pavilion located on campus? Thousands of students live on-campus and need a common area to congregate that isn't outside classrooms. They need a place to work out. These are amenities they need available to them every day. The entertainment of the basketball team is a special event that isn't required to be on-campus. It's been said that athletics is the front porch of a NCAA D1 university. If athletics is truly the front porch of UWM, shouldn't the front porch be located on its campus? If your plan is to build a state of the art basketball arena on-campus, sure. A lot of the pushback you're getting is from people who understand UWM and how it works. I don't care how all these other schools have built arenas, I really don't. These are apples to oranges comparisons. You have to look at it how we do things, and how we do things is at a snail's pace and never reaching the scope of the initial design. So if you copied that really nice $51 million arena for a proposal here, expect less. Expect a LOT less. Our initial proposal for the practice facility was between $25-30 million and would have been one of the best 10 practice facilities in the country. We ended up ~$10 million and it's probably second-best in the Horizon League to Wright State's Setzer Pavilion. Whatever your dreams, temper your expectations. I will say, that I'm amazed that a number of other public universities that compete in mid-major basketball which belong to state university systems have built on campus arenas since 2010 but for UWM it's out of the question. Hello, welcome to Wisconsin. Our state government has zero interest in funding athletics facilities for our program. It took nearly a decade to build the practice facility that was 100% paid for by student seg fees because the state didn't want to put up the cash up front - again, they didn't want to pay the money to get it done earlier even though student segregated fees would have paid the entire dollar amount back to the state at a net zero cost to taxpayers. As a result, UWM must be relegated to a large, cavernous arena which has a capacity magnitudes larger than its average attendance. Furthermore, this current arena is over 70 years old, and is owned and operated by the Wisconsin Center District. Hinkle Fieldhouse at Butler University is almost 100 years old. It was built for 15,000 spectators in 1928 and was that way through 1989. They renovated and dropped capacity to 11,000 for 20 years before another renovation dropped it to 10,000 in 2009, then in 2014 they dropped it to its current 9,100 capacity. I am convinced that a big part of why people don't care for the arena, besides the size, is the lack of acknowledgement of its own history. Hinkle's history is evident before you ever walk inside. The Milwaukee Arena does not flaunt its history and that's part of its failures. The Panther Arena is a great facility for the Panthers. Restaurants, Bars, parking, a destination. No need to renovate until consistent 5000 plus average attendance. Last home game at Panther Arena was 3400, and the trend is moving upward. Attendance needs to be upward of 5000 average over 2 to 3 years, to think about this. No serious suite revenue until we have consistent attendance over a longer period of time. Based on revenue and usage of a new facility, it would be risky and difficult to cost justify, a feasibility study would most likely be a NO GO. The Admirals are averaging between 5-6k most years, so I think if we shared the cost of downsizing and renovating the arena we'd be able to get it done a lot easier. Part of the problem with the size is that when a concert act is looking to sell around the tickets at the capacity of the Arena, 9 times out of 10 they'll go to the Forum instead. If we lower the capacity to ~8k and make the space even more enjoyable, our attendance is going to increase just as it would building a new place no matter where it is. Get out and promote others to attend a game, get a group of 20 plus to experience good basketball and a good event experience. Buy an extra season ticket or 2, and bring someone along, or use your unused season tickets to bring friends. Sponsor or promote youth athletic programs (8th grade and under) to come down as a team with their parents, help organize a Panther night from your favorite watering hole at the Panther Arena. Just sayin' This looks like a job partially for the Black and Gold Club. We need to get people together to discuss goals and start organizing to get started on the real work. I'll be reaching out to people after the CBI who have been interested, so anyone else should let me know they'd like to help. A legitimate booster club is central to the growth of the program.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 17, 2023 16:34:20 GMT -6
I have to state the obvious. If the University wants to be penny wise and dollar foolish and sink the program for good they willnot renew the Arena lease and go back to the KC. I am hoping Lundy did not unintionally help to cause this to happen with playing that game at the KC and winning. We should have won thatgame anyway at the Arena as only the week before lost one at the KC and then won against a better team at the Arena I still have a nagging suspicion that it was money driven and came from AB and Lundy played the good soldier with Warras mouthing the propaganda. They both looked clinically depressed or alternatively over reaching on that video. Frankly I hope I am wrong on this Amanda knows what most of the fans think of playing on campus. She's on our side. I was told that this was entirely driven by Lundy trying to get the loudest atmosphere possible. That tracks. I've also been told we are not leaving the Arena anytime soon.
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Post by skrapheap on Mar 17, 2023 17:15:09 GMT -6
<rant> One of the biggest obstacles to progress of the university on all levels is the neighbors, who constantly complain about anything and everything connected to the university. Unless they bought their homes 50 years or more ago when the university was much smaller than it is now, i don't see that they have much ground for complaint. They ought to have known living next to a college campus would have its own challenges.
Of course, one can also fault the decision to stay at the Kenwood campus primarily, but that's another discussion.</rant>
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Post by PantherU on Mar 18, 2023 11:57:02 GMT -6
<rant> One of the biggest obstacles to progress of the university on all levels is the neighbors, who constantly complain about anything and everything connected to the university. Unless they bought their homes 50 years or more ago when the university was much smaller than it is now, i don't see that they have much ground for complaint. They ought to have known living next to a college campus would have its own challenges. Of course, one can also fault the decision to stay at the Kenwood campus primarily, but that's another discussion.</rant> 50 years ago enrollment was over 20,000. These people want to have their cake and eat it too, as in they want to live in a trendy college neighborhood but they don't want the college students to live there too.
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Post by toodles1980 on Mar 18, 2023 23:50:54 GMT -6
I continue to be fascinated that 18 public universities since 2010, that compete in mid-major D1 basketball, have built arenas but Milwaukee wouldn't be able to. In addition, 3 public universities that compete in mid-major D1 basketball have arenas under construction with openings set in 2023 and 2024. Here's the problem with this list. Of the arenas you've listed, only 3 are in cities that would have similar constraints to UWM, Georgia State, Nebraska-Omaha, and NJIT. The rest are in smaller cities where land isn't at the premium like it is in the larger cities, but of those none are really directly comparable to UWM's situation. UNO's arena, was primarily built for their hockey team, is located 2 miles from campus, and is in an area that would be more akin to Milwaukee's Northwest side, not a dense urban neighborhood. GSU's arena is located near campus (0.7 miles), but that has the benefit of being downtown, near an area that previously housed other stadiums, and is in the crook of a major highway interchange. Basically they did what Marquette plans to do with the Iron District soccer stadium. It's not directly on campus, but close and they lucked into an unused corner of a downtown freeway interchange. UWM has no such advantages, as it is right in a dense residential neighborhood with only surface streets leading to campus. NJIT is similarly located in downtown Newark. It seems they basically built their new arena on a parking lot they owned. But again, as it's located downtown, they were able to do that without concern, because there are other parking options around giving them the ability to sacrifice a parking lot. Being downtown makes a huge difference. If you look at schools that are similar to UWM, you will wind up with something like University of Missouri-Kansas City. They are located in a dense urban neighborhood with little room to expand. It's not as dense as the neighborhood around UWM, but similar. They play in a 1,600 seat on campus arena after trying to play downtown for a few years in a historic arena. But they aren't building a new arena anytime soon. UNC Greensboro plays in the Greensboro Coliseum Complex, closer than Panther Arena, but still over a mile away from campus. There are others, but those two just came to mind as I am familiar with them for various reasons. What I'm saying is if you look at most non-flagship urban public universities you will find one of 3 scenarios. They built their arena on campus decades ago, they play in a Klotsche Center type gym on campus, or they play off campus in an older arena. For better or worse that's the position UWM is in, they don't have the money for a new arena and even if they did the land isn't there to build one on/near campus.
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 19, 2023 10:31:57 GMT -6
Yeah that list of schools in bum f*** nowhere comparing it to the east side where there is literally no vacant land. Like downtown Newark is not comparable to the eastside of milwaukee at all and anyone who thinks so obviously hasnt been to both places. We are in a unique position in regards to the arena.
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Post by PantherU on Mar 19, 2023 19:24:27 GMT -6
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Mar 19, 2023 19:37:20 GMT -6
That video will never get old.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Mar 19, 2023 19:55:47 GMT -6
Life is so precious and fleeting, folks. Live in the moment and don't let anyone ever rain on your parade. Cherish what you have and fret not about the things you don't.
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Post by JG Panthers on Mar 19, 2023 20:26:10 GMT -6
This is amazing! Great find DK!
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