Western Michigan 12/22/17

[ghostofdylan]

I think that the discussion was sparked by Baldwin's ridiculous comments about our schedule. Just my two cents.

[BBFran]

One last sad note to our non-con season. The announced attendance for WMU was 1115. Any truth to the rumor that Kellyanne Conway is now our SID? Because that's an "alternative fact."

An eyewitness in attendance said he counted 59 fans. That seemed a little low to me, but anyone who watched on the net as I did could see that the only way you could count up to 250 people in the building would be by including the teams, coaches, managers, ushers, etc.

Put aside wins and losses, folks. Attendance and fan interest are what will drive what happens to the program next. Serious question: We have not had a crowd since the purge that wouldn't have VERY comfortably fit in the Klotsche. How much longer do you think the University administration will be willing to pay rent at the Arena?

Is the problem that Pat Baldwin isn't painting his chest? Or could it be something else?

[Pounce Needs Pals]

For the love of god, attendance numbers are not in who shows up. Never understood why people don't understand what the numbers means.

[FTA1982]

Dec 26, 2017 12:33:34 GMT -6 BBFran said:

One last sad note to our non-con season. The announced attendance for WMU was 1115. Any truth to the rumor that Kellyanne Conway is now our SID? Because that's an "alternative fact."

An eyewitness in attendance said he counted 59 fans. That seemed a little low to me, but anyone who watched on the net as I did could see that the only way you could count up to 250 people in the building would be by including the teams, coaches, managers, ushers, etc.

Put aside wins and losses, folks. Attendance and fan interest are what will drive what happens to the program next. Serious question: We have not had a crowd since the purge that wouldn't have VERY comfortably fit in the Klotsche. How much longer do you think the University administration will be willing to pay rent at the Arena?

Is the problem that Pat Baldwin isn't painting his chest? Or could it be something else?

Apparently your eyewitness can't count. I know it fits your narrative though.

[ghostofdylan]

I couldn't make it Friday because of a work conflict. How many people were in attendance, guys?

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Dec 26, 2017 13:11:11 GMT -6 ghostofdylan said:

I couldn't make it Friday because of a work conflict. How many people were in attendance, guys?

Not too many. It was a very poor showing.

[BBFran]

I trust the eyewitness. He's a numbers professional. But perhaps he missed dozens of people out in the concourse enjoying all the new food options? By the way, how many of those new food vendors were open that night?

And I'm not writing the narrative; I'm observing the devolution of a once proud program. The narrative is being written entirely by our athletics administration, who appear to have utterly no ability to improve it. Today's plot point is that even the ridiculously inflated attendance figures they report for our only revenue sport are pathetic!

[Spirit of Bruce]

I was not at the game as I would normally be, as I had to celebrate Christmas with my mom's side of the family. I did watch the game on my AppleTV with a number of my cousins, who were quick to point out the utter lack of people in the arena. It appeared to me to be far less than what passes as a "normal' crowd these days. With that said, the camera operator should stop showing a panoramic view of the arena coming out of commercial breaks. It's very bad optics.

[Spirit of Bruce]

Listed attendance is paid ticket sales, or however many people have their ticket scanned at the door. Whichever number is larger. No sh*t. It doesn't take a math degree to know that. What is your point, MUPanther? And why does mentioning attendance seem to piss you off so much?

[PantherU]

Dec 26, 2017 13:06:39 GMT -6 FTA1982 said:

Apparently your eyewitness can't count. I know it fits your narrative though.

It's a non-fiction narrative.

Dec 26, 2017 12:58:59 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

For the love of god, attendance numbers are not in who shows up. Never understood why people don't understand what the numbers means.

You're absolutely right. Showing tickets distributed rather than cranks at the turnstile (or I suppose we're at beeps of the palm pilot thingie) is a standard way of fudging the numbers.

The problem with number-fudging is that depending on the real crowd size, it can be really...really...obvious. Say the Bucks have 14,000 fans in the building. They announce 16,000 attendance. Would you be able to tell? Maybe...if you really look at it, you can get a general idea that in the 17k capacity building there's more than 1,000 seats empty, but you wouldn't be able to guess they fudged the numbers by 2,000. Because let's be honest, when your actual crowd is 87.5% of the announced attendance, only someone who is breaking out an abacus and taking still photographs is going to tell.

Now, take an actual crowd of 400 at the Panther game. You tell me; is it easy to tell that the announced crowd of 1,200 is bullsh*t?

Fudging the numbers a bit is part of the game. Announcing triple the actual attendance is putting a spotlight on a glaring problem. A problem that the current AD cannot fix because, in case you haven't noticed, their continued employment isn't just a symptom; it's the cause.

We're supposed to be talking about the game, so I'll say that the shallow bench reared its ugly head here - as it has in most losses this season - and that's a symptom of another problem...two years in transition. What's the cause of that?

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Dec 26, 2017 19:55:27 GMT -6 Spirit of Bruce said:

Listed attendance is paid ticket sales, or however many people have their ticket scanned at the door. Whichever number is larger. No sh*t. It doesn't take a math degree to know that. What is your point, MUPanther? And why does mentioning attendance seem to piss you off so much?

First, my pissing match wasn't to you. Second, many are saying their is some lying going on. Which is not the case, as attendance numbers in all sports (MLB, NBA,etc) are tickets paid or giving out. Not in who shows up. So, it's pissing me off as people don't understand in what they are talking about. If they were messing with the numbers, they should be listing them higher if that was the case.

Now, if people need help in their attendance fight versus the school. They should be saying other than the past two years, UWM for regular season games have always had paid crowds higher than 2,000. Never did they hit below 2,000.

[Pounce Needs Pals]

Dec 26, 2017 19:57:29 GMT -6 PantherU said:

Dec 26, 2017 13:06:39 GMT -6 FTA1982 said:

Apparently your eyewitness can't count. I know it fits your narrative though.

It's a non-fiction narrative.

Dec 26, 2017 12:58:59 GMT -6 Pounce Needs Pals said:

For the love of god, attendance numbers are not in who shows up. Never understood why people don't understand what the numbers means.

You're absolutely right. Showing tickets distributed rather than cranks at the turnstile (or I suppose we're at beeps of the palm pilot thingie) is a standard way of fudging the numbers.

The problem with number-fudging is that depending on the real crowd size, it can be really...really...obvious. Say the Bucks have 14,000 fans in the building. They announce 16,000 attendance. Would you be able to tell? Maybe...if you really look at it, you can get a general idea that in the 17k capacity building there's more than 1,000 seats empty, but you wouldn't be able to guess they fudged the numbers by 2,000. Because let's be honest, when your actual crowd is 87.5% of the announced attendance, only someone who is breaking out an abacus and taking still photographs is going to tell.

Now, take an actual crowd of 400 at the Panther game. You tell me; is it easy to tell that the announced crowd of 1,200 is bullsh*t?

Hawaii Bowl had a listed attendance of over 20,000. It was also reported 12,000 showed up.

Marquette list over 12,000 versus Chicago State, when 5,000 show up.

Wisconsin lists sellouts of 17,000, when 10,000 is there for Western Kentucky.

It's still not a case of fudging numbers, when attendance listings are tickets paid/given out. If people don't show up, then they don't. The numbers should not change. So, it not bullsh*t or anything. To me it's like, damm we had 60% no shows in the Western Michigan game. More alarming to me is, we only had over 1,000 tickets sold. For years the Panthers always had no worse than 2,000.

[ghostofdylan]

I'm simply concerned about attendance. Real attendance. Paid attendance. All of it. Systematic cratering in this area came in two phases: first was the move back to Klotsche before the 2012-13 season and the other was the gross mishandling of the university's separation from Jeter in the spring of 2016. I'm not really sure what can be done to bring it back, but it certainly is worth discussing. After all, I care deeply about our program and I don't like it a bit when buzzards are circling.

[BBFran]

It will surely distress mupanther to learn that I was doing ticket counts for the Brewers at County Stadium decades before he was born. I know a thing or two about it.

BPU nailed it. The "ordinary" fudging that happens at athletic events is not what's happening here. Our attendance has cratered to the point that there is no longer any normal relationship between the bogus figures claimed and the actual fans in the stands.

I fear what we will see for the two games this week. The students are on break, the temperatures are wicked, there's no buzz, and OU and Detroit fans don't travel. (The Saturday game will be particularly brutal, as it's up against the Badger bowl game.) The way things are going it would be a near miracle if the two games combined attracted 1000 people.

What's our AD doing about it? I suspect she's out of ideas. After all, she can't fire Jeter again.

[steveisback]

I think the biggest issue goes back to hiring Rob in the first place. MIssed a golden opportunity to strike when the iron was hot and think out of the box rather than the safe pick. It has been a slow mediocre low frequency since that almost once in a lifetime opportunity to capitalize on the momentum and buzz Pearl developed. Then add all the AD turnover, move to Klotsche, way the firing of Rob was handled although still glad he is gone...anyway... we could have been Butler at that time but settled for mediocrity. Conflicted regarding Haidet frankly. Nice man, made great hires with Bo and Bruce, poor hires with Ric and Rob...now it has slowly floundered for years gone, stale and then Amanda Braun has totally tanked the program