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Post by pantherpanther on Dec 15, 2006 12:05:09 GMT -6
Two things:
1. Student Association? While they may be laughable right now, we still need and get money from them every year, so that is the angle I was coming from-the business side of it. Sorry if you mistook my comment.
2. Women's Basketball is probably the one Department in Athletics that the instability has festered for so long that it is borderline insane at. I will totally agree on that issue. I was speaking more administatively, and from a support aspect. What goes on in Women's Basketball we all know about, and UWMfan I agree with you 100%.
What I don't agree with is your assertion questioning the ethics of the Department business-wise...I believe the Department is making great strides in this area. Sorry we don't agree on this issue. You have your sources and opinions, and I have mine.
Dylan, more than likely, the promition on the D-list was just part of the media package with the station...hard to really define their audience.
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Post by Hack on Dec 15, 2006 13:24:57 GMT -6
No I don't like it, because you are missing the main point in your criticism of the administration of the department. ALL Athletics is business...and if you don't understand that, then you are sorely missing the point. If there is no business side of it, then there is no Athletics. Student Associations won't see the need to help fund the Department if there are no sound business practices. Actually, you're missing the main point of my argument. Good business sense MUST include ethical practice and integrity, in particular when it comes to dealing with personnel matters. If you don't believe professional ethics and backing your staff is important, well, then have a nice life in the business world. I understand business too, but there are different measurements of that success, and being successful in business and being successful while also being sound in professional practice need not be mutually exclusive. Using the student government right now as an example of backing is laughable. It seems their former leadership has their own issues with ethical practice and how to properly use funds. You also mention that this may be an issue of disgruntled staff members. When one sees a consistent pattern of disgruntled staff, pointing the finger at the employee as being the problem only goes so far. Has anyone else noticed the revolving door that is the coaching staff for women's basketball assistants over the last 10 years or so? Hmmmm, must be some pretty bad assistants CONSISTENTLY hired who turn out to be bad eggs. Maybe they're just not asking the right questions in the interview process? Perhaps then the problem then isn't who's being hired but......well, I'll see if you can figure that one out on your own. Those of you on this board that know me understand that for more than 20 years I have been the most supportive fan out there. I have bled UWM and have worked with members of the AD since the 80's. However, I have personally been impacted by questionable ethical issues stemming from certain leaders w/in the department and will no longer blindly follow whereever they will lead. Amen. Couldn't be said better.
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Post by uwmfan on Dec 15, 2006 15:21:27 GMT -6
Two things: What I don't agree with is your assertion questioning the ethics of the Department business-wise...I believe the Department is making great strides in this area. Sorry we don't agree on this issue. You have your sources and opinions, and I have mine. Here again you are measuring what appears to be business success, not success in ethical practice. There may be strides being made in the business sense, but my sources, one of which is me personally, can tell you there are no strides being made in ethics. Either you have them or you don't.
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Post by pantherpanther on Dec 18, 2006 11:57:47 GMT -6
Sorry UWMfan...I have my sources too, and I don't see or believe in this alleged "ethical downslide" of the Department...
Best to just agree to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2006 12:10:04 GMT -6
Two things: What I don't agree with is your assertion questioning the ethics of the Department business-wise...I believe the Department is making great strides in this area. Sorry we don't agree on this issue. You have your sources and opinions, and I have mine. Here again you are measuring what appears to be business success, not success in ethical practice. There may be strides being made in the business sense, but my sources, one of which is me personally, can tell you there are no strides being made in ethics. Either you have them or you don't. Now this is just my opinion and you guys can rip me from every bone of my body, but what successful athletic department is ethical. I'm not saying that being unethical is ok, but it isn't who's being unethical, it's who's being caught. I know that is a pretty ugly way to look at things but they are seriously realistic. All the big time football & basketball programs cheat and they know it, it's just a matter of who's good enough at retracing their steps to cover things up.
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Post by pantherpanther on Dec 18, 2006 12:15:42 GMT -6
UWM fan is talking about alleged unethical business practices though, which I frankly don't see or believe are happening...we are in disagreement on that issue.
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Post by uwmfan on Dec 18, 2006 12:20:24 GMT -6
Best to just agree to disagree. Works for me!
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Post by nohopspanther on Dec 18, 2006 16:39:21 GMT -6
Didn't you know the SEC mantra is "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."
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Post by teddyp00 on Dec 18, 2006 17:26:49 GMT -6
Here again you are measuring what appears to be business success, not success in ethical practice. There may be strides being made in the business sense, but my sources, one of which is me personally, can tell you there are no strides being made in ethics. Either you have them or you don't. Now this is just my opinion and you guys can rip me from every bone of my body, but what successful athletic department is ethical. I'm not saying that being unethical is ok, but it isn't who's being unethical, it's who's being caught. I know that is a pretty ugly way to look at things but they are seriously realistic. All the big time football & basketball programs cheat and they know it, it's just a matter of who's good enough at retracing their steps to cover things up. Lets be careful here and not get too carried away. Bending the rules, playing in the gray, etc are all parts of any business and college sports are from from excluded from this. But cheating should not be done nor tolerated. I know nothing about what may or may not be going on in the program, but as an alumi and supporting of UWM athletics I sure hope there is not any person(s) turning a blind eye to something that could be so serious.
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Post by bball30 on Dec 18, 2006 21:20:53 GMT -6
I find it odd this thread hasn't been stopped. We're not allowed to give the name of a kid who wasn't on the bench at the UW game, but we can talk about having an unethical athletic department???
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Post by newbee on Dec 19, 2006 8:51:03 GMT -6
Exactly... instead of playing the "I know more than you but I am not going to tell you" and the "I have my sources" games can we just move on!!!
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Post by pantherpanther on Dec 19, 2006 9:34:20 GMT -6
Relax...there is no cheating going on...no backroom deals...none of that...
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Post by nighthawk on Dec 19, 2006 10:28:42 GMT -6
I think it's naive to think there is no office politics in tha AD.
And I think that's what all these issues boil down to.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2006 13:03:43 GMT -6
Bending rules any which way you cut it is cheating, and that's the bottom line. I'm not suggesting that UWM is cheating because I have zero ties to the AD nor do I claim to know anything more than what I read on this board. However, I'm not naive to think that successful athletic programs play by the rules because they don't. Remember it's not who's cheating, it's who's getting caught.
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Post by uwmfan on Dec 19, 2006 13:28:55 GMT -6
Relax...there is no cheating going on...no backroom deals...none of that... First off, let me be clear on something. I have never made any statement to the effect that any wrong doing is going on regarding recruiting or similar matters. The issues I have eluded to refer to personnel matters and nothing more. P^2, we'll agree to disagree on this I'm sure, but as for "....no backroom deals..." I cannot disagree more. My sources in the dept. tell me otherwise, and have no reason to make these issues up. It's likely that not all personnel in the dept. are aware of what's coming and thus different responses from different staffers (assuming someone's not talking from both sides of their mouth ) Is it politics? Absolutely. Does that absolve those involved from playing that game? Absolutely not. For those of you who believe this thread is not appropriate for discussion, please feel free to disregard what has been stated here. For the rest, I think it appropriate to be aware of practices going on and become as fully informed as possible. What you choose to do with this information is entirely up to you.
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