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Post by uwmplanner on Apr 14, 2011 9:03:09 GMT -6
I've been hesitant to participate in this discussion primarily because I just don't see football ever happening at UWM and I'm not going to get my hopes up. Until the perception regarding UWM as both a sports program and an academic institution changes, the money isn't going to ever flow in. I've been saying for years that the apathy on campus and in the surrounding community is what does us in. It's a vicious cycle. If we can't get 4000 fans to come to a division 1 basketball game, how can we possibly think we're going to get 10,000+ to come to the Milwaukee Mile? Also, I don't think Wisconsin is a "football-crazy" state. The Badgers and Packers are extremely popular, but we're nowhere near the insanity you see in states like Texas and Georgia. Without the money (and we need A LOT of it), this is a pipe dream. Let's "settle" for an on-campus arena and getting the baseball team a new home. If football does return, I'll be thrilled, but I don't see it. +1 this is pretty much my thoughts exactly on this discussion as well. |
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Post by gman2 on Apr 14, 2011 15:26:34 GMT -6
The fact that Costello brought up football indicates to me that he is a short timer using this as a stepping stone to a program that has football.
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Post by Super King on Apr 14, 2011 15:33:06 GMT -6
He was already at a program that has football. Not as an AD, but still.
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Post by PantherU on Apr 14, 2011 17:40:18 GMT -6
He was already at a program that has football. Not as an AD, but still. Actually, he was - Delaware State. |
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Post by PantherU on Apr 14, 2011 17:57:18 GMT -6
This article was tweeted at me by Brian Dickmann, a current student at Green Bay who is transferring down to Coastal Carolina. Short background on CCU: Used to be the east end safety school for the University of South Carolina. Not large, only about 10,000 or so students in a largely rural area. Basketball recently got pretty good, and their baseball team is a national power. Link: The man quoted in this excerpt is Gary Gilmore (no, not the murderer), head coach of the Coastal Carolina Chanticleers Baseball program. Excerpt: Coastal Carolina is a small school, their Brooks Stadium only seats 6,400, and they do not make money in football. |
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Post by uwmfutbol on Apr 14, 2011 19:24:47 GMT -6
Based on the brief research that I did on CCU, it would appear as though it's the only game in town. It's in a town of 30,000, with a county population of 200,000. That's a far cry from UWM, a school that has to compete with three professional teams, a superior college basketball program, and the ever-present cloud known as the Badgers. Also, CCU is in South Carolina. I've said before that you cannot equate football in Wisconsin with football in the South. Football is king there, and everything else is secondary. Basketball plays second fiddle to football in Wisconsin, but Wisconsin and Marquette basketball are extremely popular. I'd say Wisconsin is relatively well-split between football, college basketball, and professional baseball.
I also believe that even though UWM football would be the only football in Milwaukee, it would still be shunned as inferior to the Badgers. All of this returns to the local perception of not only the university, but the sports as well. UWM's mediocre alumni following does nothing to alleviate these problems. I know Panther alums who have told me they never intend to return to the campus, attend games or donate money. It's harsh, but they see no value in it. In fact, my brother has said repeatedly that he valued his education at UW-Waukesha more than his time at UWM.
As Jimmy has no doubt demonstrated, football has been a game-changer for this university, but UWM has a lot more going against it. In terms of academic perception, UWM trails not only Madison, but Eau Claire and La Crosse (despite the fact that the universities serve entirely different purposes). As far as test scores go, even UW-Oshkosh has higher standards. In addition, UWM still has the commuter school image and suffers from an extremely cluttered, out-dated core campus. I believe the academics are fine, but the college rankings would beg to differ. And without a doubt the biggest problem is the retention rate (73%--that's terrible). All of this gives the perception that UWM is a lousy school. This right here is my theory as to why the students and alumni act like zombies rather than proud representatives.
Some may ask why I'm bringing up academics, but honestly, the academic climate is different up here than it is in South Carolina. South Carolina's K-12 schools are beyond terrible. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see someone attend a university there simply because of football. I guess my point is I don't believe that football will cure UWM's woes. There are too many other issues at hand.
Jimmy has provided several excellent examples, but UWM has a particularly unique situation. I'd say the best example he's offered is Georgia State, but again, football (ANY football) is like a cure for cancer down there. I would have no problem with UWM experimenting with football, except that money is so scarce there, I fear what would happen if the experiment failed.
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Rawls
Junior
Everyone's Entitled To My Opinion
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Post by Rawls on Apr 14, 2011 19:43:05 GMT -6
Futbol's post is very well put. It does no harm to talk about it here, (stuff like this is why the board exists) but we need a serious surge in spirit before football is looked at with any seriousness. So I've got to go back to my point that our men's basketball team is the way for any of this talk to become a reality. It's the only sport that can bring in significant financial and perceptional change. I don't think academics plays such a big part however, I think people will come to the game of regardless of test scores, etc.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Apr 14, 2011 19:50:45 GMT -6
K-Raw,
Just to clarify, I think the school's overall image plays a part in getting students excited to be on campus even before they attend their first class. Obviously sports play a massive role in this, but so does the satisfaction of being part of a "good," well-connected school. Honestly, I feel like too many people are essentially embarrassed to say they're a student/alum of UWM. This goes well beyond athletics. It's almost a cyclical problem; the negative perception of the athletics and academics almost seem to feed off of each other. I'm not sure if I'm making sense.
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Post by gman2 on Apr 14, 2011 20:20:44 GMT -6
Georgia State while a good example, has the issue of being the lesser program in the Atlanta market behind Georgia Tech. Plus the Falcons do not have the diehard fan base that the Packers have. UT-San Antonio might be a better example to look at for success or failure. The only game in town in a state that has a dominate state university presence in the state capitol and has a pro football team with a diehard fan base. I'd look to UT-San Antonio as a guide as to what may or may not work for football.
But as others have said, football is many, many years away if it ever happens, so focus on the present needs.
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Post by BBFran on Apr 14, 2011 20:28:07 GMT -6
futbol, in my circles I know a lot of very influential people in the business community. None of those who went to UWM -- and there are a lot of them -- seem to be "embarrassed" in the slightest about that. On the contrary, there's a lot of pride and excitement about where the University is heading.
I don't care where you go to school -- college is what you make of it. The high achievers I know who went to UWM made the most of it. The kind of people you're talking about could have gone anywhere and would still have the same complaints and attitudes. Would that be because of where they went -- or because of who they are?
UWM has a special mission as an urban public University, and that's always going to make its student profile different. I'm fine with that; that's the way it should be. But it doesn't detract from this being a terrific University that can provide any student a great academic and college experience.
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Rawls
Junior
Everyone's Entitled To My Opinion
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Post by Rawls on Apr 14, 2011 20:30:30 GMT -6
Thanks for the clarification futbol. Still, I think a consistently good team will break through those associations. As for UTSA, they are in a college football-mad state. College football in literally as big as religion there.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Apr 15, 2011 6:26:02 GMT -6
futbol, in my circles I know a lot of very influential people in the business community. None of those who went to UWM -- and there are a lot of them -- seem to be "embarrassed" in the slightest about that. On the contrary, there's a lot of pride and excitement about where the University is heading. I don't care where you go to school -- college is what you make of it. The high achievers I know who went to UWM made the most of it. The kind of people you're talking about could have gone anywhere and would still have the same complaints and attitudes. Would that be because of where they went -- or because of who they are? UWM has a special mission as an urban public University, and that's always going to make its student profile different. I'm fine with that; that's the way it should be. But it doesn't detract from this being a terrific University that can provide any student a great academic and college experience. I agree completely with this, and I'm also excited with what's going on at the campus. Perhaps "embarrassed" was too strong of a word; I would instead say that there is a lot of indifference. Those that criticize UWM based on college rankings are ignorant. UWM is a fantastic school, and it's very underrated. My question is: how do we get the vast majority of the students/alumni to be excited about their school? The basketball following even during the Pearl years suggests that we're not there yet. Is football the answer? It very well could be. But it's a massive gamble, and I'm not sure it's the cure-all. |
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Post by uwmfutbol on Apr 15, 2011 6:50:54 GMT -6
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Post by buppie05 on Apr 15, 2011 7:25:12 GMT -6
futbol, in my circles I know a lot of very influential people in the business community. None of those who went to UWM -- and there are a lot of them -- seem to be "embarrassed" in the slightest about that. On the contrary, there's a lot of pride and excitement about where the University is heading. I don't care where you go to school -- college is what you make of it. The high achievers I know who went to UWM made the most of it. The kind of people you're talking about could have gone anywhere and would still have the same complaints and attitudes. Would that be because of where they went -- or because of who they are? UWM has a special mission as an urban public University, and that's always going to make its student profile different. I'm fine with that; that's the way it should be. But it doesn't detract from this being a terrific University that can provide any student a great academic and college experience. I agree completely with this, and I'm also excited with what's going on at the campus. Perhaps "embarrassed" was too strong of a word; I would instead say that there is a lot of indifference. Those that criticize UWM based on college rankings are ignorant. UWM is a fantastic school, and it's very underrated. My question is: how do we get the vast majority of the students/alumni to be excited about their school? The basketball following even during the Pearl years suggests that we're not there yet. Is football the answer? It very well could be. But it's a massive gamble, and I'm not sure it's the cure-all. As Fran mentioned, as an urban public university, UWM is in a category all its own in this state. I get very frustrated when people assume that because UWM has lower admission standards than Oshkosh, Eau Claire, and LaCrosse, and doesn't have as high of a graduation rate, that UWM is somehow a poorer academic State school. UWM has a special mission to serve the community. When you consider UWM is the only public urban university in the state, and one of only 2 doctoral research universities in the state, UWM is really indeed a rare gem and should be acknowledged as such. Any former student who was disappointed in the education they received likely should have spent more time researching the university, because IMO its pretty clear what your going to get when you attend school here. How do we get people excited about the school? It will come, but people should remember we haven't had nearly as much time as a competitive mid-major as other schools who have a big fan base. IMO we've only been relevant in college bball for a little over ten years, and considering that our fan base isn't that bad. More consistent winning and stability in the program will grow the fan base/ pride for the team greatly. IMO the biggest thing we can do is to get this on-campus arena. Having a strong student fan base that sticks around past graduation is what I'm banking on to sustain us as a quality program, and I hope we all get to see this brought to fruition. |
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Post by PantherU on Apr 15, 2011 9:35:54 GMT -6
K-Raw, Just to clarify, I think the school's overall image plays a part in getting students excited to be on campus even before they attend their first class. Obviously sports play a massive role in this, but so does the satisfaction of being part of a "good," well-connected school. Honestly, I feel like too many people are essentially embarrassed to say they're a student/alum of UWM. This goes well beyond athletics. It's almost a cyclical problem; the negative perception of the athletics and academics almost seem to feed off of each other. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Does it? Ask a student who isn't proud that they go to UWM and ask them why they don't think it's a "real" school. |
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