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Post by BBFran on Nov 15, 2005 20:33:58 GMT -6
Interesting game. The result was what I expected. Memphis is incredibly big and athletic -- the worst possible matchup for us because we have so little size. They must have gotten 10 blocks in the paint. And you can't turn a team like Memphis over like we did to many teams last year.
And our own turnovers killed us. Again, Memphis is really long and quick, and we haven't seen anything like that in practice or in the exhibitions. We need to learn to value the ball better. This will be a good (if painful) lesson.
Nevertheless, it was obvious that Jeter is getting through to the players on offense, at least, as we made our one run by forcing UM into fouling. Frankly, we had no real choise, as we couldn't compete in the paint and couldn't hit our threes.
Right now we miss the strength of Wright and the shooting of McCants. The newcomers are okay, particularly Massiah and Smith (who again showed great promise while making his share of rookie mistakes). But Jeter has a lot of work to do to get these guys to understand completely what he wants.
We'll be fine in the Horizon, where no team has size or length like Memphis.
This was just a really tough matchup to have to open with under a new coaching staff and with a new design. Frankly, this would have been an extremely tough matchup if Bruce was still coach and Ed and James were still on the team.
But let's not be too disappointed. The same thing happened last year at Kansas and Wisconsin. We'll be back.
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Post by JimmyLemke on Nov 15, 2005 21:56:41 GMT -6
For those of you who are ready to hang yourselves, I might stress a point. As basketball beat writer for the UWM Post, I have to take an objective look at the big picture. We are going to have a checklist:
2004:
25+ Point loss to ranked team early in season: Check
2005:
25+ Point loss to ranked team early in season: Check
This year, by my estimation, will be as good if not better than last year. My reasons:
We have already played the hardest game of our regular season schedule.
Only one more true team will play us outside league play: Wisconsin.
After Wisconsin, the Horizon League is nothing. Not one of those teams would come within fifty of Memphis, were Memphis playing like they did tonight.
The loss was almost purely turnovers and missed shots. We were a terrible .222 from the field and had 19 turnovers, 10 of which came in the first 6 minutes of the first half. Had we played a little smarter ball, the turnovers would have been less, and the deficit less. The same thing goes for making shots.
Memphis is almost a lock to make the Sweet Sixteen field this season.
These are things that need to improve:
Avery Smith needs to know when to shoot and when to pass. It seemed to me that all game long he was pulling up and dropping in a half ass shot too early, or was driving when clearly a shooter was open on the wing.
Chris Hill needs to stop those god damn cross court passes. The man is killing my chi with all this utter nonsense of forcing the ball up court fast. I said it the first four times he did that he was going to throw it away, and low and behold, he did it many times. Good player, just needs to keep his head on.
Boo Davis needs to actually make a f***in shot. Enough said. Bobbi Roquemore of the Journal brought it up in the post Platteville game press conference that Boo Davis wasn't playing up to par, and Jeter slapped her down. I laughed, because I was the only reporter that didn't get slapped down by Jeter. He is the man.
Joah needs to do nothing to his game. He's a f***in' monster.
Jason McCoy needs to get more physical underneath. He's got a big enough body to mess with Memphis, but he didn't use it.
Kevin Massiah needs to play UWM level ball and not JUCO crap. He needs to grow up in a hurry if he wants that Newcomer of the Year trophy, which was won by Ed McCants AND Joah Tucker.
All in all, I think I'm going to write an editorial for the Post on this. Check next week Wednesday, see if it made it in.
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Post by bball30 on Nov 15, 2005 22:03:34 GMT -6
I disagree with some of this.......
McCoy can't play any tougher, he is waaaay to thin to bring a physical persence in D1 ball.
And Loyola is gonna be pretty good this year, Schilb isn't bad at all.
And furthermore, Chris Hill needs to do NOTHING different. He has been more than solid during his tenure here. He makes some mistakes, but every player in every game also does. Absolutely no need to criticize him.
GO PANTHERS
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Post by BBFran on Nov 15, 2005 22:30:39 GMT -6
I love Chris Hill but I think he'd be the first to tell you some of those cross court pases he made tonight were just eight ways to stupid. He's a fighter -- loved the way he boarded tonight with all those giants out there -- but it wasn't his best night as a point guard. We need him to run the team, and to set the tone, he has to protect the ball.
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Post by Tanker on Nov 15, 2005 23:31:21 GMT -6
I agree with some of your assessments. Joah is as advertised. Hill has been and will be streaky at times he's prone to some dumb mistakes but, can usually really handle it against the press. I have to say I was pretty impressed w/Avery Smith, for a guy they wanted to redshirt he played a pretty nice game. He did make some frosh mistakes but that is expected. I like his ability to get to the rim. Tigert Usually Mr. steady just had an off night that wont happen to often. UWM has some athleticism but its tough to go up and down with a team like Memphis. This team really reminds me of that team from Madison that coach Ryan took over a couple years ago. They are Young but, if they can put it all together in the end they could make another run at the NCAA's.....
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Post by JimmyLemke on Nov 16, 2005 10:49:45 GMT -6
Bball, you're being fececious.
McCoy not big enough to play division one ball? The guy is less than two hundred pounds, which of course is a problem. However, he has the athleticism and arm length to be a Tayshaun Prince type player. I may have sounded in my previous post that I thought he should carry the big man load. Of course, that's not the case. You all know we have Big D. And the size isn't as much of a problem in the Horizon League.
Like I said before, the only tough game left is Wisconsin, and who knows if Brian Butch has grown up enough to do anything against UWM.
Loyola poses no true threat to UWM. Many disagree because of Blake Schilb's play last year. I will tell you right now, there is a reason Jay Bilas and many of the NCAA fans call Joah Tucker one of the 5 best players in the country.
If you don't believe me right now, consider this: Loyola only beat Robert Morris by only 6 points. Robert Morris? This is not the D1 Robert Morris, either. This is NAIA! NAIA! Come on, how can you say that a team like Loyola can truly compete with UWM after winning their exhibition against an NAIA school by only 6 points.
They gave up 27 points to Robert Morris' Reggie George. Reggie George? What happens when they play the tournament tested Joah Tucker? Joah will score 40. Easy. If he does not score 40, I personally say that there will be five UWM players that will score 10. Mark your calendars, January 11th is a beatdown. Believe it.
As for Chris Hill. Yes. He has done a lot at this school. Being the least publicized of our starters, I always thought he deserved more of the limelight for running the offense. He has been a solid court general since he became the starter. However, in the biggest sport on campus, we should be thinking more along the "What have you done for me lately?" lines. Believe it, UWM needs Chris Hill to keep the pace controlled, and not forcing the ball, giving it away.
If you think he played well last night, you weren't watching the same game.
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Post by teddyp00 on Nov 16, 2005 11:06:46 GMT -6
I agree with you jimmy on most of what you said. But reading your first post on saying tha Mccoy has the body to do some damage against Memphis is just not the case. Mccoy is just not a physical player never has been, never will be. He cant do damage against Horizon teams, no way will he against any team like Memphis. I never realized how highly touted he was coming out of high school, but he just clearly never was able to live up to his potential. His athletic abiltiy and length are great assets and will keep him in the starting line up through most of the year, but thats only because we have nothing else to turn to.
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Post by pnthr97 on Nov 16, 2005 11:21:17 GMT -6
Saying that Wisconsin is the only tough game left is very, very narrow minded. Tenn Tech on the road will be tough, as will Wyoming and Montana. Oakland is no gimme, nor are St. Louis and Hawai'i at home. And this is just the non-conf schedule. Now, other than UW, we should win each of those, but these are all difficult games.
Come conference games and the conference tourney, this team will have been tested very well. That's the point of scheduling games like these.
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Post by PANTHERfan on Nov 16, 2005 11:40:31 GMT -6
agreed 97... all the games you mentioned are going to be very tough. St Louis will be better than last year. Tenn Tech scares me cause it's one of those away games against a good team we know little about, Hawaii is always tough, etc... this team will be very tested come March.
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Post by bball30 on Nov 16, 2005 12:23:17 GMT -6
Jimmy
First of, No, McCoy doesn't have the size to play at a high D1 level against the likes of a team like Memphis. And Derrick Ford is NO substitute. He has some of the worst hands in the conference, and continuously gets out rebounded, and post played by smaller players.
As for the schedule.... Wisconsin is hardly the only tough game left. St. Louis, Wyoming, and Tenn. Tech are all going to be very very tough games. Brad Soderberg is a very good defensive coach, and UWM's offense hasn't exactally produced yet. Not to mention loyola is gonna be the major suprise of the conference, and shilb is gonna be up for POY. Believe it or no, ESPN isn't the only publication out there. CBS sportsline and The sporting news both praise Loyola quite highly.
And finally the Exhibition schedule........ IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING!!!!!!! Seriously, those games are no measure of how a team can be, they are almost like scrimmages. It doesn't matter that Detroit went to overtime, or UIC and Loyola only won by a few points. Believe it or not, but there are plenty of other good players in the D2 and D3 levels.
All in all, UWM will be fine, however it will be no cake walk. It's gonna take time for Jeter's system to set in, but I have confidence that it will take off with great success
GO PANTHERS
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Post by teddyp00 on Nov 16, 2005 13:12:17 GMT -6
Jimmy As for the schedule.... Wisconsin is hardly the only tough game left. St. Louis, Wyoming, and Tenn. Tech are all going to be very very tough games. GO PANTHERS Not sure exactly what you think tough is but when a team is picked to finish near or at the bottom of their conference such as Wyoming I dont think that is a very tough game. And sorry but I dont see Tenn Tech as much of a threat unless we manage to shoot 22% again. St. Louis could be decent, but they lost their two best players from what what a bad team last year. So if we struggle against these teams then it could be a long year for us.
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Post by bball30 on Nov 16, 2005 13:39:17 GMT -6
Wyoming just beat Charlotte (Who is picked to finish atop the A-10), and has a pretty athletic team, who plays in a tough conference, and very well at home. Justin Williams will be first team all conference.
Not to mention Hawaii is going to be a very tough game also (picked number 2 in the WAC behind Nevada.
My point is, UWM doesn't have a cake walk of a schedule this year. It should be a good year, with lots of good games
GO PANTHERS
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ArtVandelay
Freshman
I am Art Vandelay, I am an Importer/Exporter
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Post by ArtVandelay on Nov 16, 2005 15:04:17 GMT -6
Alright now that I've had time to go back and watch the game again I feel a lot more comfortable with this loss. The game wasn't nearly as ugly as it had seemed at the time. I think the horrible play of the final minuets made this loss look worse than it really was...
Joah Tucker: Made some great shots, but also missed some easy shots right around the basket. His rebounding improved a lot from the exhibition games.
Boo Davis: Got benched and deserved it. Boo made some sloppy sloppy passes tonight that led to dunks and also jacked up a few threes while not open and with time left on the shot clock. I love the guy, but he needs to work through the offense better, which he did better later in the game and got to the line.
Adrian Tigert: Was really bothered by the Memphis player's length. Got a few bullsh*t fouls, but can't help that. Most night his shots are going to fall.
Chris Hill: At the start of the game he took a few ugly shots and committed turnovers that he shouldn't have. Was kind of invisible most of the game.
Mark Pancratz: Got to the line and made it count. Got a little fancy in trying to make a behind the back pass to Adrian early in the game, which caused a turnover, but solid contributer and great defender.
Avery Smith: Only played 15 min, but when he was in the game it always seemed like he was doing something (usually good). 2 of 11 shooting really hurt, but a few shots were forced due to the shot clock. Made lots of nice moves toward the basket just couldn't get his shots to go down.
Kevin Massiah: Reminds me a lot of Joah during his sophomore year except not nearly as aggressive. I want to see him work down low more and get to the line.
Jason McCoy: Cannot compete with players of Memphis caliber. Had a nice block early, but didn't do much after that. Should play better against Horizon League competition.
Derrick Ford: Rebounded much better than McCoy due to his larger size, but like many have pointed out he just can't handle the ball. I hope he can somehow improve his hands, but I just don't see this happening since this has been a problem for him since he arrived. I'd actually like to see him face up his defender and take a shot. I've always thought that he has a very nice shot, but just never uses it.
Tyrone Young: Wasn't even given a chance tonight.
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Post by PantherLou on Nov 16, 2005 15:50:40 GMT -6
Here's some things I liked: 1. Defense looked good. For where we are in the season, I am very excited about our half-court D. It seemed that Memphis got their best looks in transition (A big reason for us not pressing, IMO) 2. Free throw shooting. How many times last year or the year prior did we complain about missing free throws? I think that's going to change for the better this year. 3. I think we handled the press reasonably well, at least Chris and Avery did. 4. Avery Smith was a very dynamic player with the ball. He created with the dribble. (Now he just needs to work on his shot, or passing, or both 5. Joah was fantastic off the ball. He continually was able to establish position. There's a lot I wasn't happy with, but for now, I am going to chalk it up to growing pains and inexperience with the system, and I am going to focus on the positives of this game.
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Post by JimmyLemke on Nov 17, 2005 8:48:20 GMT -6
Let me define my "tough." My tough is a game that UWM will have to drastically change their game plan to beat. They would have to put in their best and have the other team falter enough to win. That's how I see Wisconny as tough.
Tennessee Tech. Are you serious. I suppose, you could say that "They're in the same state as Memphis, so they get some of their talent." That's the best explanation I can see.
I did overlook Wyoming. I passed them over on my schedule. However, I don't see it as tough. As I defined my tough, I don't see UWM drastically changing what they do just to beat Wyoming. The way UWM runs things, Wyoming doesn't offer anything that will stun UWM. UWM can handle Wyoming.
St. Louis got beat in St. Louis by UWM last year. UWM lost Ed McCants, as someone else brought up, St. Louis lost their best two players. I'd prove that by showing the percentage of scoring and rebounding drop-offs, but St. Louis' website is terrible for finding stats.
Now! Jason McCoy.
Everyone's reply sounds as though they think I see him as a true big man. Did anyone bother to read my second post? I think not. In that second post, I talked of him as being a Tayshaun Prince type player. A small-power forward who has long arms and can get great athletic blocks and rebounds. He will NOT be the big boy in the middle that shuts down the inside game. NO! I said already he is better served playing a more athletic role. Derrick Ford is much better at sitting down there and picking up garbage.
Stop knocking Jason McCoy - you're pissing me off. He hasn't lived up to his potential. Yes. He isn't the center that UWM needs. Yes. However! If you'd look at UWM's lineup, he is NOT listed as a center. UWM lists him as a forward. Ga-duh. I like how Art Vandelay put it. No, he can't compete against Memphis big guys(was anyone other than me bothered by how many times Daron Sutton called them trees?) but he will do better against Horizon League.
That means what? Horizon League post players are either smaller and more athletic like McCoy, or bigger and less athletic like Ford. We happen to have both, so eat it. McCoy and Ford will handle the 5 just fine, thank you.
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