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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 27, 2024 23:31:28 GMT -6
BJ put up raw volume scoring numbers. But...I'd hope that most diehard basketball fans who devote as much time as anyone who posts on a proboards message board to talk about a low major college team understand how inconsequential raw PPG stats are. BJ was 18th in the Horizon league in TS% and top overall in usage. People on this board talk like politics are what kept BJ off first team all Horizon...but like you can't even remotely make a statistical argument that BJ was a more impactful player than Noah Reynolds this year at his same damn position. The team disappointed this season. 5th in the Horizon league. Literally better W/L without BJ than with him. He was terrible turning the ball over (regardless of the role he was in, he was horrific in that regard by any metric you want to point to) and he wasn't an efficient scorer on top of things. He was so bad on defense the entire team had to switch mid season to playing zone the vast majority of the time because BJ couldn't even be hidden on weak offensive players. That's not even getting into his trash body language and attitude. BJ if he was a less productive player would have been kicked off the team the same time as Browning was and there were people within the program surprised that he wasn't kicked off the team. He's honestly lucky he got hurt at that time which gave him the humble pie of showing the team is just as good/maybe better without him completely.
So I look at things like BJ was one of the most talented players in program history, but nowhere even close to the best guys we've had who actually achieved things team wise and played in a WAY better quality league than the current Horizon. Mediocre efficiency volume scorers who turn the ball over nonstop and don't play any defense are the classic trap archetype of player who people without a great understanding of winning basketball tend to drastically overrate. We will be fine without BJ.
How many of the top 18 players in TS% were shooting guards? BJ was right around top 10 in the conference in shooting percentage from 3 and 17th in overall shooting percentage. Given TS% is supposed to measure how effective a shooter is by incorporating overall field goal percentage and free throw percentage, it's hard to believe that most of the players above him weren't big men. I count our record against D-1 competition to be 4-3 without BJ and 14-12 with him. So, no, the record isn't particularly better without him. He had a lot of turnovers, true, but his assist to turnover ration was 1.1, which is on par for a non-point guard in college, and was top 15 in the conference. His defense was so bad the team gave up an average of 77 points per game in the six games without him early in the season, while they gave up on average 78.7 for the season. That's quite the falloff! 2 of those games, the defense without one of our worst defenders, allowed shooting percentages overall and from 3 of over 45%, while one of those games we allowed better than 50% from both. BJ isn't a strong defender, but this team overall had bigger issues playing defense than BJ alone. Reynolds? Trey Calvin? Those dudes arent exactly shy shooting the ball either. Cant believe people are defending the defense like it wasn't something you could just see during the games. How many times holding his hand up when he missed his man on defense or blaming teammates. sh*t in the HL Final he legit gave up a layup while talking to Wilson over a blown assignment, like cool maybe it wasnt his "man" but at a certain point you have to just defend and deal with that after the fact. Maybe one rainy day ill post some of the game footage from the plays I and others saw this year, I urge anyone to go back and rewatch the first 4 minute of the IUPUI away game. Hardly a good team but BJ literally didnt care to play defense that game.
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Post by reginaldkdwight on Mar 27, 2024 23:34:51 GMT -6
Offensive wise sure, but he was a minus defender and I am not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. Oh and a lot of those guys listed got us to the mountaintop in a much better league. I've never argued BJ was anything but a minus defender, but the issues on the defensive side this year were not solely on BJ. Look at the points allowed in the six game stretch he was out. We were bad, as usual even with BJ out. A lot of those guys listed played together, meaning that they had quality people that could pick them up on an off night. Joah and Clay are already in, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ed makes it as well. Both Dylan and Adrian should receive strong consideration for the Hall as well. Name me one other player on this team that comes close to being an all-timer, or a Hall of Famer. They had three playing together, we have one. Take one of them away, and do we even get to the tournament? Take two away and we're likely middle of the pack. The Horizon today is nowhere near the league it was in the early 00's, but the team this year also had very little consistency from anyone outside of BJ. Pratt was the closest thing, and Fields came on strong late, but wasn't one of the three early on. Much more was expected of KP and EJ, and even Markeith this year, and they all underperformed based on expectations. BJ, on the other hand, did not. His statistics from an offensive perspective were better in most categories. One thing I think we can count on is that the players returning won't be taking the next season for granted this offseason, as coach implied some may have last year. Like you said the league right now is more summit league then the quality mid major league it was back in those days. The defensive issues were system related but theres also something to be said about when your "best" player doesn't defend it doesn't spur the rest of the team to defend hard. Leading by example is critical in basketball even moreso on the defensive end of the floor.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 28, 2024 5:01:16 GMT -6
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Post by thetruth on Mar 28, 2024 6:40:01 GMT -6
I’d be curious to know why he deleted the post about his time at MKE and how he’s moving on. I know we will never find out but just seems weird.
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Post by Petes on Mar 28, 2024 7:23:51 GMT -6
If this dude is right he’s 100% on the staff 😂 or saw him on campus today Or someone told him. It ain’t that crazy
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Post by ghostofpbj on Mar 28, 2024 7:30:37 GMT -6
If this dude is right he’s 100% on the staff 😂 or saw him on campus today Or someone told him. It ain’t that crazy Dont think the coaches would’ve enjoyed the post very much if so.
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Post by FTA1982 on Mar 28, 2024 7:40:57 GMT -6
BJ playing for Bobby Hurley would be hilarious. Sign me up.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Mar 28, 2024 8:02:58 GMT -6
I can't believe Hurley has a job. If ASU would have an athletic director I don't think he would.
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Post by GoPanthersGo23 on Mar 28, 2024 8:39:26 GMT -6
His defense is really detracting P6 schools from talking to him I see.
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Post by runninpanthers on Mar 28, 2024 9:04:06 GMT -6
Or someone told him. It ain’t that crazy Dont think the coaches would’ve enjoyed the post very much if so. No one in the program told me🤦♂️I found out through a mutual friend during his days at Tosa East that it was happening.
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Post by runninpanthers on Mar 28, 2024 9:14:54 GMT -6
Dont think the coaches would’ve enjoyed the post very much if so. No one in the program told me🤦♂️I found out through a mutual friend during his days at Tosa East that it was happening. Well it wasn’t confirmed to me through this friend I should say, but he thought it was going to happen. So mainly speculation but with some truth to it LOL
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 28, 2024 12:41:06 GMT -6
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Post by tyrunner0097 on Mar 28, 2024 13:17:08 GMT -6
"I hope we can put Milwaukee back on the map, for real."
Awesome to hear that from him, and I love we're going to surely have more fans at games next year, not just from the team playing well, but the local players bringing family, friends, old classmates to the games.
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Post by mattg on Mar 28, 2024 19:15:49 GMT -6
BJ put up raw volume scoring numbers. But...I'd hope that most diehard basketball fans who devote as much time as anyone who posts on a proboards message board to talk about a low major college team understand how inconsequential raw PPG stats are. BJ was 18th in the Horizon league in TS% and top overall in usage. People on this board talk like politics are what kept BJ off first team all Horizon...but like you can't even remotely make a statistical argument that BJ was a more impactful player than Noah Reynolds this year at his same damn position. The team disappointed this season. 5th in the Horizon league. Literally better W/L without BJ than with him. He was terrible turning the ball over (regardless of the role he was in, he was horrific in that regard by any metric you want to point to) and he wasn't an efficient scorer on top of things. He was so bad on defense the entire team had to switch mid season to playing zone the vast majority of the time because BJ couldn't even be hidden on weak offensive players. That's not even getting into his trash body language and attitude. BJ if he was a less productive player would have been kicked off the team the same time as Browning was and there were people within the program surprised that he wasn't kicked off the team. He's honestly lucky he got hurt at that time which gave him the humble pie of showing the team is just as good/maybe better without him completely.
So I look at things like BJ was one of the most talented players in program history, but nowhere even close to the best guys we've had who actually achieved things team wise and played in a WAY better quality league than the current Horizon. Mediocre efficiency volume scorers who turn the ball over nonstop and don't play any defense are the classic trap archetype of player who people without a great understanding of winning basketball tend to drastically overrate. We will be fine without BJ.
How many of the top 18 players in TS% were shooting guards? BJ was right around top 10 in the conference in shooting percentage from 3 and 17th in overall shooting percentage. Given TS% is supposed to measure how effective a shooter is by incorporating overall field goal percentage and free throw percentage, it's hard to believe that most of the players above him weren't big men. I count our record against D-1 competition to be 4-3 without BJ and 14-12 with him. So, no, the record isn't particularly better without him. He had a lot of turnovers, true, but his assist to turnover ration was 1.1, which is on par for a non-point guard in college, and was top 15 in the conference. His defense was so bad the team gave up an average of 77 points per game in the six games without him early in the season, while they gave up on average 78.7 for the season. That's quite the falloff! 2 of those games, the defense without one of our worst defenders, allowed shooting percentages overall and from 3 of over 45%, while one of those games we allowed better than 50% from both. BJ isn't a strong defender, but this team overall had bigger issues playing defense than BJ alone. You're misunderstanding what TS% measures. It allows you to compare scoring efficacy among players by taking into account, 2pt FG%, 3pt%, and FTs. This allows you to better compare scoring efficiency between guys who might have drastically different shot profiles. While you will often see big men who only take spoon fed point blank dunks/layups having a ridiculously high TS% (think Rudy Gobert in the NBA), you just as often see guys who are 3pt shooters having a strong TS% simply because 3s are worth more than 2s. Jack Gohlke for example shoots 37.8% from the field overall...but has a 58% TS due to him ONLY shooting 3s.
However back to what you initially posited about how "its hard to believe that most of the players who were more efficient than BJ this year weren't big men"...you'd actually be dead wrong. 14 of the 17 guys ahead of BJ in TS% were guards and all averaged in double figures scoring wise.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Mar 28, 2024 19:58:25 GMT -6
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