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Post by coacheinerson on Nov 10, 2005 10:48:13 GMT -6
I don't know Lou. I don't think having UIC as a consistent rival would be good for us in the long run. We have the opportunity to move up and find rivals that are above the level of UIC. If we accept a life-long rivalry with them, we accept to stay stationary.
I don't quite understand why everybody is so concerned about the other teams in the League doing well. I've given up on them, frankly. In a conference game between UWM and UIC, Loyola, GB, Detroit, or Butler, there's no telling what will happen. But outside of those heated matchups, they can't do squat.
Even if we won every game this season we'd be a 12-seed because of our conference RPI. Let's just accept that and worry about ourselves. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not exactly in love with the Horizon League and I don't fret about it's future. I do, however, care immensly about ours.
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Post by Pantherholic on Nov 10, 2005 10:53:18 GMT -6
on the plus side for UIC, no one in Chicago cares about them so no one knows how much they suck (zero coverage in either paper). like the Chicago-native who i stood next to at the Platteville game said, "No one gives a sh*t about UIC".
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Post by Big D on Nov 10, 2005 11:20:08 GMT -6
I don't know Lou. I don't think having UIC as a consistent rival would be good for us in the long run. We have the opportunity to move up and find rivals that are above the level of UIC. If we accept a life-long rivalry with them, we accept to stay stationary. I don't quite understand why everybody is so concerned about the other teams in the League doing well. I've given up on them, frankly. In a conference game between UWM and UIC, Loyola, GB, Detroit, or Butler, there's no telling what will happen. But outside of those heated matchups, they can't do squat. Even if we won every game this season we'd be a 12-seed because of our conference RPI. Let's just accept that and worry about ourselves. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not exactly in love with the Horizon League and I don't fret about it's future. I do, however, care immensly about ours. So now that you have a couple good seasons, your sh*t doesn't stink anymore right? Who exactly do you think you're going to develop a heated rivalry with? Your best bet for a rivalry is within the conference. And, you're not leaving it anytime soon...or are you one of the crazy UWM fans that thinks the Big Ten is going to roll out the red-carpet for you guys? 99% of mid-majors have ups and downs....do you think you'll be the top HL team forever? When you return to earth, you'll realize that the UWM/UIC rivalry is likely to be the most heated one you're going to get.
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Post by PANTHERfan on Nov 10, 2005 11:36:32 GMT -6
no kidding Big D. you develop rivalries with your conference opponents so you better care how the rest of the league is doing. if the horizon became a respectable conference again that 12-seed could and should easily move up. nobody is impressed with the fact that you can beat lowly teams. as long as our conference RPI sucks so will our potential seed in the tournament. uwm isn't moving on to another conference any time soon so we better hope where we are now becomes a much better place!
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Post by Big D on Nov 10, 2005 11:55:13 GMT -6
no kidding Big D. you develop rivalries with your conference opponents so you better care how the rest of the league is doing. if the horizon became a respectable conference again that 12-seed could and should easily move up. nobody is impressed with the fact that you can beat lowly teams. as long as our conference RPI sucks so will our potential seed in the tournament. uwm isn't moving on to another conference any time soon so we better hope where we are now becomes a much better place! I agree...obviously I don't like rooting UWM on but if they do win, I know it can help the conference out. In 1998, 3 HL teams got into the tourney and UIC was an at-large 9 seed with an RPI in the top 25, I believe. If the conference does well, then our visibility increases...and that will help UWM. I'm really curious what jdbrew expects from UWM....what conference do you want to move to? How exactly are you going to get a new, heated rival? Do you think Marquette is going to play you every year? With conference teams, you play at least twice every year, and the competition level is equal on average.
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Post by PANTHERfan on Nov 10, 2005 12:02:38 GMT -6
it's one of those arguments that's been hashed over here for a while and frankly it's absurd. 4 years of success does not translate to conference leaping, nor does it lead to great "new" rivalries. if you're lucky you may develop a significant rivalry outside your conference but that's rare, especially for a team that's relatively new to success. that just goes back to the fact that rivalries need history! UIC and UWM are just now developing some history and we're in the same conference. for us having rivalries with local teams is even difficult cause UW and MU will always have talented rosters while we may experience some down years do to our mid-major status. hopefully that can change but the fact of the matter remains that we need to develop great contests within the league and hope that that can in turn help out the conference as a whole.
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Post by bball30 on Nov 10, 2005 13:13:57 GMT -6
Big D,
I agree with you. Jdbrew, if you would like the conference RPI to go up, you probably are going to need the other teams in the conference to win. But this isn't my biggest gripe......
The term "rival" How loosely it is used on this board. MU? HARDLY our rivals. Packers/Bears, Bulls/Knicks, Blackhawks/Red Wings...... THOSE are rivalries. As far as I am concerned, UWM is too young of a program to have any "rivals" Until UWM is winning the conference year after year after year, they have nothing. I know it sucks, and might be hard to take, but THEY ARE A MID-MAJOR PROGRAM!
I'm just as big of Panther fan as anyone out there, but let's not forget, 3 YEARS of success is all this university has experienced. Let's not let it go to our heads.......
GO PANTHERS
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Post by Spike1057 on Nov 10, 2005 14:24:40 GMT -6
Hey I think you guys have plenty to be thankful for. sh*t you just made a great tourney run, now the goal is to not end up like Butler. Anyways to the rival thing, I also think the way you have to look at it is you'll always have you fun playing teams like UIC, but now its time to make another rival out of someone in this confrence. You will probably always have us to fight with but now you can probably add on LU or maybe UDM. I love this confrence well except YSU and yea I was pissed yesterday but hell this is a new team and we at UIC will have to take are LUMPS!
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Post by coacheinerson on Nov 10, 2005 16:08:50 GMT -6
I think it's funny that we're all sitting around in a circle letting UIC cliff jumpers cry on our shoulders.
This may be new success and maybe I'm a little quick to the trigger when I say we should ride it to a new conference, but if everyone in the Horizon League is on their way down... I'd be bugging the crap out of the MVC.
I think some are too quick to lump us in with Butler. If Jeter ends up being the coach I feel he can be, then I believe we'll become like UNC-Charlotte. Who said we'd EVER be a high major school? It's not a crime to believe that we'd be better suited in a bigger conference is it? (MVC, MAC, etc...)
And as for rivals... do they not change every year in this conference? Last year we chanted, "Not our rival" when we tore up UWGB at home. Is UIC our rival? I don't care... I just can't fricken stand them.
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Post by Big D on Nov 10, 2005 16:24:58 GMT -6
I think it's funny that we're all sitting around in a circle letting UIC cliff jumpers cry on our shoulders. This may be new success and maybe I'm a little quick to the trigger when I say we should ride it to a new conference, but if everyone in the Horizon League is on their way down... I'd be bugging the crap out of the MVC. I think some are too quick to lump us in with Butler. If Jeter ends up being the coach I feel he can be, then I believe we'll become like UNC-Charlotte. Who said we'd EVER be a high major school? It's not a crime to believe that we'd be better suited in a bigger conference is it? (MVC, MAC, etc...) And as for rivals... do they not change every year in this conference? Last year we chanted, "Not our rival" when we tore up UWGB at home. Is UIC our rival? I don't care... I just can't fricken stand them. I know there was a thread posted here a while back about you guys switching conferences. Some of you are living in a dream world. jdbrew, the thing I don't think you understand is that there is more to fitting in a new conference than just winning. Just because you win for a few years doesn't mean any old conference will take you. There are money concerns and geographic concerns. Think about the schools in the HL. You have mostly urban universities representing big cities...Chicago, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. Milwaukee does not fit geographically with the MVC....rural schools in Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, etc. The amount of money required to travel from UWM to all over those schools throughout a year may put you at more of a disadvantage than you think. Why is Gonzaga not stepping up in conference yet? I'll tell you why....geographic location and the fact that they dominate that conference year in and year out....how can you pass up the money associated with an automatic trip to the dance every year? My money's on you being in the HL for a while....unless a new mid-major conference is formed....
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Post by PantherLou on Nov 10, 2005 16:47:12 GMT -6
Since my comments seemed to start this, allow me to make my stance clear. 1. We aren't going to change conferences unless the HL disbands and a new Mid-Major Bball conference arises from it's ashes. That is NOT happening anytime soon, folks. 2. We aren't going to the MAC because we don't have football of any sort. 3. We aren't going to the MVC because, as Big D said, those schools and us have nothing in common. The MVC has only recently become an "elite" Mid-Major conference. Why can't the HL become one too? 4. We are never going to be a Major conference (Big 6), because we dont have (and never will have) D-1 football. 5. The only way for us to get better games, and better rivals, and yes, better RPI is for our fellow HL teams to improve. 6. Yeah, I dislike UIC, UWGB, Butler, Detroit, and the others, but it's a hell of a lot more fun beating them when they actually pose a threat to us. 7. Jimmy Collins does suck. But like Wayne Fontes, it is nice to have him around.
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Post by coacheinerson on Nov 10, 2005 20:13:44 GMT -6
Due to the arrival of Wayne Fontes to the discussion (and other good points) I conceed my conference ship-jumping dream.
Horizon League it is. Fricken UIC...
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Post by germanathens on Nov 11, 2005 13:27:39 GMT -6
Many considered last season to have been the low-point of the conference. However, this season promises to be even worse. It is vital that we win our non-conferences games, because our RPI will drop from guilt by association.
As a conference, this season will be disappointing.
Later, UWMfreak
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fan
Sophomore
Don't shoot so much Tone.
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Post by fan on Nov 11, 2005 14:01:32 GMT -6
I fear many of us are prematurely overlooking our conference as pushovers. Until we know more about our own team and our coach I can't say we'll be that much better than them.
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Post by aknowsense on Nov 16, 2005 17:42:27 GMT -6
In 1998, 3 HL teams got into the tourney and UIC was an at-large 9 seed with an RPI in the top 25, I believe. If the conference does well, then our visibility increases...and that will help UWM.
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