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Post by DunneDeal on Dec 1, 2021 10:53:13 GMT -6
What you need to do if find the donors, actual big money donors and get them onboard.
Money talks.
Also, I dont mind the springboard either. But IF the school (and this is a big if) can actually jump on the impact a NCAA run brings, you can bring in another young coach who wants the jump. They can take a team and keep the momentum up they will get a bigger job.
Part of the issue now is the Transfer Portal. Kids can jump just as fast, so springboard coach leaves, he can pluck his best players with him. Val took Nze, so it happens.
Look at CFB, dont think for a minute guys de-commiting from OU arent long to end up in LA with Riley.
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Post by JG Panthers on Dec 1, 2021 11:07:28 GMT -6
What you need to do if find the donors, actual big money donors and get them onboard. Money talks. Also, I dont mind the springboard either. But IF the school (and this is a big if) can actually jump on the impact a NCAA run brings, you can bring in another young coach who wants the jump. They can take a team and keep the momentum up they will get a bigger job. Developing a master plan, creating an identity and building success can happen without big money donors. Sustaining success requires them. We're not going to cultivate big-money donors if the program and administrative vision is a rudderless ship. |
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Post by PantherU on Dec 1, 2021 18:35:04 GMT -6
Normally, you would be the obvious choice to serve as liaison. But doesn't AB despise you? If she does, someone else would have to be the liaison??? I sincerely doubt Amanda is that bitter as a person. She said 'hi' to me in passing at the 2017 HLT title game but I was moving too quick and missed the chance to respond. Still, we've got history. And I'm not sure we need a liaison with the athletic department, I think the statement If we do decide we need to have a conversation with athletics, it would probably be most productive if it's me and Adam Schemm. Either way, that conversation would have to remain private for obvious reasons, so if it does happen it probably wouldn't be until after a public announcement that Coach Baldwin will not be retained in his position. but I also think we should discuss a way of quantitatively highlighting the number of people that gave the input that this statement will be based on. We can choose to have everyone who is willing sign the final public document. I think that we should goose the numbers. Is there anyone on here who could help us with that?! I, for one, should be able to count as three people. What you need to do if find the donors, actual big money donors and get them onboard. If anyone is willing to sign their name to a document, the university will be able to look up through their Millennium software how much money is behind their name. If you're looking for our former biggest donors to get on board, that ship has sailed until AB and MM are gone. That has been made perfectly clear to me by the ones I've been in contact with and that hasn't changed this year. so springboard coach leaves, he can pluck his best players with him. Val took Nze, so it happens. Implying Nze was Val's player irks me a bit, but I'll let it go. Developing a master plan, creating an identity and building success can happen without big money donors. Sustaining success requires them. We're not going to cultivate big-money donors if the program and administrative vision is a rudderless ship. Baby steps here. The right coach can get the program going. We can worry about helping them cultivate a master plan for athletics after the hire is made. Whether or not Mone actually takes an active role as steward of the program is out of our hands, although I am interested in having a thread discussing whether or not we would like to include a request for the chancellor to take that more active role. Perhaps that is a good idea, since the success of the coach largely hinges upon the university administration being willing to give adequate support to the program (aside from spending more money). |
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Post by nickpanther on Dec 3, 2021 15:02:45 GMT -6
Whoever we pick, we should count on them being here at least 3 years. LaVall left because his dream job fell into his lap, no question you take that job if it becomes available. Bo wasn't " Bo" yet when he coached here, but he did get the program pointed up. At the very minimum, the next coach has to get the arrow pointing up again .
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Post by Duct_Tape_Pounce on Dec 3, 2021 15:12:38 GMT -6
The right coach can make a huge difference in a league as down as the Horizon League. Cleveland State went from being laughingstocks to a champion in the span of 2 years because of a really good coaching hire.
I’m not an expert on who is available, but I’ll echo the sentiments that I want a winner. Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl were winners at lower levels and helped turn the program around. Rob Jeter was an assistant at a successful program and the program didn’t grow much but also didn’t fall. They were just a consistent slightly above average HL team. Lavall Jordan was an assistant at a successful program and while his one year here wasn’t great, there were some similarities to Dennis Gates’ first year at Cleveland State. Then we chose an assistant coach at a program that made the tournament once in its history. And you see where we are now. No finishes in the top half of the conference in his first four years, and there’s absolutely no indication the Panthers will finish in the top 6 in the conference this year.
Find a successful D-2 coach and let UWM be a stepping stone for them. I’d rather UWM be a stepping stone of a coaching job than the cesspool it is now.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Dec 3, 2021 16:51:17 GMT -6
The right coach can make a huge difference in a league as down as the Horizon League. Cleveland State went from being laughingstocks to a champion in the span of 2 years because of a really good coaching hire. I’m not an expert on who is available, but I’ll echo the sentiments that I want a winner. Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl were winners at lower levels and helped turn the program around. Rob Jeter was an assistant at a successful program and the program didn’t grow much but also didn’t fall. They were just a consistent slightly above average HL team. Lavall Jordan was an assistant at a successful program and while his one year here wasn’t great, there were some similarities to Dennis Gates’ first year at Cleveland State. Then we chose an assistant coach at a program that made the tournament once in its history. And you see where we are now. No finishes in the top half of the conference in his first four years, and there’s absolutely no indication the Panthers will finish in the top 6 in the conference this year. Find a successful D-2 coach and let UWM be a stepping stone for them. I’d rather UWM be a stepping stone of a coaching job than the cesspool it is now. Nice post. The only thing I would take issue with is that the program did fall during Jeter's 11 years. Let's not forget the excitement in the program prior to his hire versus the latter stages of his tenure. A fair debate that we have been having for 6+ years is the extent the program's fall was his doing versus the incompetence of others. I would also prefer being a stepping stone program if that means head coaches at UWM are having success while there. I would take that point a step further by actually selling the job to top candidates as a stepping stone. Show the up and comer head coaches from lower levels that UWM is a good step to take up the career ladder. |
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Post by Duct_Tape_Pounce on Dec 4, 2021 8:18:22 GMT -6
The right coach can make a huge difference in a league as down as the Horizon League. Cleveland State went from being laughingstocks to a champion in the span of 2 years because of a really good coaching hire. I’m not an expert on who is available, but I’ll echo the sentiments that I want a winner. Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl were winners at lower levels and helped turn the program around. Rob Jeter was an assistant at a successful program and the program didn’t grow much but also didn’t fall. They were just a consistent slightly above average HL team. Lavall Jordan was an assistant at a successful program and while his one year here wasn’t great, there were some similarities to Dennis Gates’ first year at Cleveland State. Then we chose an assistant coach at a program that made the tournament once in its history. And you see where we are now. No finishes in the top half of the conference in his first four years, and there’s absolutely no indication the Panthers will finish in the top 6 in the conference this year. Find a successful D-2 coach and let UWM be a stepping stone for them. I’d rather UWM be a stepping stone of a coaching job than the cesspool it is now. Nice post. The only thing I would take issue with is that the program did fall during Jeter's 11 years. Let's not forget the excitement in the program prior to his hire versus the latter stages of his tenure. A fair debate that we have been having for 6+ years is the extent the program's fall was his doing versus the incompetence of others. I would also prefer being a stepping stone program if that means head coaches at UWM are having success while there. I would take that point a step further by actually selling the job to top candidates as a stepping stone. Show the up and comer head coaches from lower levels that UWM is a good step to take up the career ladder. I agree that Rob Jeter left the program in a worse place than he got it. Not as much as it’s fallen within the last 5 years to be sure… we still felt like we could win a conference in many years… now, getting a first round HL game at home seems like an impossibility. Rob Jeter took over a program with its 7 best players arguably all being seniors, and I think they carried him more in that first year than he carried them. Then, he made some mistakes with recruiting (Torre Johnson, Tim Flowers, Kevin Johnson), and learned the hard way that good character and good fit is more important than good talent… at least at this level. But that definitely did set the program back. And from there, it was mostly treading water. But as it’s been mentioned in here numerous times, he went through numerous ADs, none of them good except for Bud Haidet. I’d venture to say that Jeter is responsible for maybe 25% of the fall from 2005 to 2016, and the administration takes on at least 75% of the blame. Jeter isn’t blameless, but there were outside factors to be sure. Still, he is looking like freaking John Wooden compared to Pat Baldwin. Only, you know, less crooked. |
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Post by PantherU on Dec 4, 2021 15:07:26 GMT -6
learned the hard way that good character and good fit is more important than good talent… at least at this level. That's true at every level. Think about the strongest national programs. How many guys with the "bad character" brand play for Duke, Kansas, UNC, Michigan State etc? People love bagging on Kentucky for being the king bandit program, but they're not stocking their roster with dudes who are seen as hard to work with or "uncoachable." How many guys did Bo Ryan have at Wisconsin who weren't high-character guys? You see guys who are seen as a handful going to less-successful high-majors. Think Marcus Smart to Oklahoma State. The guys that Jeter was willing to take a chance on early only to have it blow up in his face are as good an example as any as to why we should be looking for a successful head coach; they won't be learning on the job. We'd probably see Jeter's tenure differently if he recruited a team in 2006 the way he recruited a team in 2016. He won 59 games in the last three years with those teams and he probably wins more if they don't have the bullsh*t 2014-15 APR ban, so we probably look upon his tenure more favorably if he were 35-40 games over .500 overall and 40-50 games over .500 in the Horizon League. Is that guaranteed? Of course not, but he was a better coach as time went on so if he had started from a better place, maybe he would have been in a better spot when his tenure was over - hell, he'd have been more likely to have moved up to a high-major program if he had done just a few wins (2-3) better each year. In most of his last 6-7 years (outside 2012-13 when the team was demoralized by the Klotsche move) he was 2-3 wins away from 1st or 2nd place. That margin is razor-thin and unfortunately for him he often seemed to lose 2-3 games too many each conference season. This is the biggest reason why I want us to put forward this proposal. It seems to me the one thing almost all of us can agree on is that we want an established, successful head coach to take the helm of this program. And why wouldn't we? Bo Ryan turned this program around quick and his dream job fell in his lap. Bruce Pearl kept the boom going and plugged in the right players in the right spots to make that happen. These guys hit the ground running. They probably would not have been able to do that if they were using their first few years learning on the job. |
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Post by Cactus Panther on Dec 4, 2021 16:29:20 GMT -6
This is the biggest reason why I want us to put forward this proposal. It seems to me the one thing almost all of us can agree on is that we want an established, successful head coach to take the helm of this program. And why wouldn't we? Bo Ryan turned this program around quick and his dream job fell in his lap. Bruce Pearl kept the boom going and plugged in the right players in the right spots to make that happen. These guys hit the ground running. They probably would not have been able to do that if they were using their first few years learning on the job. Yes! Yes! Yes! I have been wanting this for the same reasons since 2005. Nice to see that it is now the majority opinion at least on this message board. How Bud did not recognize it at the time still makes me cringe. |
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Post by PantherU on Dec 4, 2021 16:54:12 GMT -6
Yes! Yes! Yes! I have been wanting this for the same reasons since 2005. Nice to see that it is now the majority opinion at least on this message board. How Bud did not recognize it at the time still makes me cringe. I will post my response in the Proposal: Coaching Experience thread, since that is the better location for it. |
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Post by Cactus Panther on Dec 4, 2021 17:45:20 GMT -6
Another thing I have disliked about the hirings since 2005 are the personality of the coaches. They seem to come from the same mold - good family men, nice guys, reserved (LaVall maybe not quite as much). Do we need a thread to comment on personality? A coach that will fire up the fan base. Someone who will socialize with the post game crowd at the official post game hangout of the Panthers. Someone who will fire up the students in the dorms. Someone who will proactively look for airtime on radio sports talk shows. Someone who is animated on the sidelines and can fire up a crowd. Someone who proactively energizes former players to come back and instill Panther Pride. Etc.
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Post by mkehoops on Dec 5, 2021 11:32:49 GMT -6
Another thing I have disliked about the hirings since 2005 are the personality of the coaches. They seem to come from the same mold - good family men, nice guys, reserved (LaVall maybe not quite as much). Do we need a thread to comment on personality? A coach that will fire up the fan base. Someone who will socialize with the post game crowd at the official post game hangout of the Panthers. Someone who will fire up the students in the dorms. Someone who will proactively look for airtime on radio sports talk shows. Someone who is animated on the sidelines and can fire up a crowd. Someone who proactively energizes former players to come back and instill Panther Pride. Etc. Adding to this thought: If we have an AD & Chancellor with no personality we need a coach that has one. Can’t continue to have all duds in these roles. |
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Post by PantherU on Dec 6, 2021 9:30:08 GMT -6
Another thing I have disliked about the hirings since 2005 are the personality of the coaches. They seem to come from the same mold - good family men, nice guys, reserved (LaVall maybe not quite as much). Do we need a thread to comment on personality? A coach that will fire up the fan base. Someone who will socialize with the post game crowd at the official post game hangout of the Panthers. Someone who will fire up the students in the dorms. Someone who will proactively look for airtime on radio sports talk shows. Someone who is animated on the sidelines and can fire up a crowd. Someone who proactively energizes former players to come back and instill Panther Pride. Etc. Well maybe this is why we should have a thread, to discuss this. One of the most consistent complaints about Jeter was that he didn't fire up people the way Pearl did. Character/personality can go a lot of ways, we may decide we want to include a line about inspiring excitement in the community the way Pearl did. |
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