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Post by striker14 on Feb 18, 2020 0:29:20 GMT -6
Willing to give staff two years and judge at that time. Next year needs to show 18 to 20 wins. If Wright State can do it we can. We need to finish in top three in conference and compete against non conference foes beating other mid majors home and away. Brown and Wilbourn are really his only players. They can be good players but need to get this season behind them. They do have an upside. We are not going to miss Roy or Abrams that much next year. With three recruits inked and PBS willingness to play freshmen there should be improvement. Brown, Baker, Wilbourn, Lucas, and Thomas doesn’t look like a bad lineup. There will be more depth with freshmen signees, Henderson, Madge, and Bigham. I am an optimist and see a need for continuity. This is where I'm at. Baldwin walked into a situation where he was the 3rd coach in as many years to head the program. We are not an easy rebuild. 4-5 years is not beyond the pale given the circumstances, imo. If we aren't knocking on the door of 20 wins next year and continue to be inconsistent I will start to get uneasy
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Post by 73withharoldlee on Feb 18, 2020 19:40:14 GMT -6
Spirit of Bruce calling out people who care as clowns! Give me a break Spirit of Corruption. The program is about people who care about the future and not about people who want to get somewhere else. Do you ever think that some people really care. That has been the problem as recognized by Bud Haidet who gave a long term contract to an assistant coach with no track record of winning. So are we going down the same road. If so let’s support one another and believe some people and coaches really have more than themselves as a motive to achieve success. Baldwin was given a program in flux and needs time to grow. Sorry you can’t understand that.
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Post by Pantherholic on Feb 18, 2020 20:28:08 GMT -6
I don't think Baldwin's gone unless there are off court problems. I would be stunned if he's not given another season.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Feb 18, 2020 21:01:22 GMT -6
Agree with 'Holic. I think he gets one more year and then he's gone one way or the other.
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Post by nickpanther on Feb 18, 2020 21:11:11 GMT -6
he's under contract for 5 years isnt he? so he has 2 more years after this one.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Feb 18, 2020 21:13:08 GMT -6
My guess is that there's a two-way out. Someone's going to use it.
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Post by Spirit of Bruce on Feb 19, 2020 0:19:59 GMT -6
Spirit of Bruce calling out people who care as clowns! Give me a break Spirit of Corruption. The program is about people who care about the future and not about people who want to get somewhere else. Do you ever think that some people really care. That has been the problem as recognized by Bud Haidet who gave a long term contract to an assistant coach with no track record of winning. So are we going down the same road. If so let’s support one another and believe some people and coaches really have more than themselves as a motive to achieve success. Baldwin was given a program in flux and needs time to grow. Sorry you can’t understand that. That's exactly the point. The program should never have been put "in flux" to begin with. So, that is not a valid excuse for Baldwin being a horrible coach.
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Post by 73withharoldlee on Feb 19, 2020 8:19:09 GMT -6
Don’t think PBS is a terrible coach. Great coach? Not yet. Maybe never. Still not terrible. He has passion and desire. He has a good staff. Why is he terrible? Bad recruiter? Can’t motivate? What? Don’t tell me to look at his record he needs more time. Not many coaches win right away. Check out Wooden, Knight, and McGuire careers. One thing in common is they stayed in the same place for a long time.
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Post by nickpanther on Feb 19, 2020 9:51:24 GMT -6
Don’t think PBS is a terrible coach. Great coach? Not yet. Maybe never. Still not terrible. He has passion and desire. He has a good staff. Why is he terrible? Bad recruiter? Can’t motivate? What? Don’t tell me to look at his record he needs more time. Not many coaches win right away. Check out Wooden, Knight, and McGuire careers. One thing in common is they stayed in the same place for a long time. That kind of stability is a thing of the past. We had Jeter for 11 years and won 185 games in that span. Outside of a few places, like Coach K with Duke or Izzo with Michigan State, coaches don't get to have 10 years to build a consistent program. Heck most don't get 5 years to do it.
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Post by steveisback on Feb 19, 2020 10:54:30 GMT -6
Was not the "end of the world as we know it" when moved on from Jeter. Apart from the horrible way it was handled sometimes things work out well and sometimes not. Does not mean can never make a change. Case in point, we only had Bo Ryan for two years and then look what happened which was even better ....ok, Pearl left but we made a mediocre hire and had so called stability for a long time. Then looked like we made a very good hire in Lavall and got caught in an unlucky situation and perfect storm when Butler job opened. Who could blame him or anybody? (even Braun) Like Ryan, who could blame him for "bolting" after two years? Neither a reflection on UWM....one worked out with Pearl succeeding Ryan and one has the jury out yet with PBS succeeding Val....
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Post by nickpanther on Feb 19, 2020 11:03:19 GMT -6
Was not the "end of the world as we know it" when moved on from Jeter. Apart from the horrible way it was handled sometimes things work out well and sometimes not. Does not mean can never make a change. Case in point, we only had Bo Ryan for two years and then look what happened which was even better ....ok, Pearl left but we made a mediocre hire and had so called stability for a long time. Then looked like we made a very good hire in Lavall and got caught in an unlucky situation and perfect storm when Butler job opened. Who could blame him or anybody? (even Braun) Like Ryan, who could blame him for "bolting" after two years? Neither a reflection on UWM....one worked out with Pearl succeeding Ryan and one has the jury out yet with PBS succeeding Val.... We were fortunate enough to have two Hall of Fame-caliber coaches coaching here in the early 2000s- Ryan is a nobrainer and Pearl has imo done enough to get in as well. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Vatican, after all. Losing Jordan after the postseason run was just plain bad luck. I can only imagine how much further along we'd be as a program if he was still here.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Feb 19, 2020 17:02:59 GMT -6
I think this is such a worthwhile topic because PBS will be gone like the wind after next year at the latest. So what are we seeking in his successor? Let's hire someone with head coaching success or at least a track record of winning!!
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Post by buppie05 on Feb 19, 2020 17:34:17 GMT -6
I think this is such a worthwhile topic because PBS will be gone like the wind after next year at the latest. So what are we seeking in his successor? Let's hire someone with head coaching success or at least a track record of winning!! Why does PBS have to be gone after next season? He’s not doing a bad job considering the position this team and program was in when he took over. Look at where the program and team was when Jeter took over compared to when PBS took over. Now that he’s more established, PBS is showing to be a very good recruiter. The freshman this year can play, and Tejon is a stud. PBS has shown improvement as a head coach IMO. I expect to win at least 3 of 4 (if not win out) going into the tournament, and at least make things interesting. Next year, I would expect a 20+ win season with how talented this team will be. The future looks bright IMO. Who knows , PBJr might want to come play for pops. It sucks seeing where this team and conference is now. Not too long ago the horizon was on pace with the WCC (who has 3 at large this year) and we expected to compete every year for a championship. Now that isn’t the case. That said, If we keep changing coaches every couple of years, we won’t get anywhere.
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Post by Duct_Tape_Pounce on Feb 19, 2020 17:51:32 GMT -6
I was going to say, “Why are we so sure Pat Baldwin will be gone after next year?” I’m still not a big fan of his, as the player development on this team still leaves a bit to be desired, but I’m guessing he is here for at least the length of this contract. If he stays around the middle of the league during that time, he will probably be here longer. I don’t have any inside info, so if there is some non-public displeasure on either side, I’m not aware of it. But this isn’t a situation like Rob Jeter’s in his final years; Baldwin was Amanda Braun’s hire so I’m sure she wants him to succeed a bit more than she wanted Jeter to succeed.
As for how the Panthers are faring in a weaker conference than it was 10 years ago, I’ll just say that it’s gotta be a lot easier to recruit to a team whose conference has a perennial top 25 team (like Butler) or at least a perennial contender for an at large (like Valparaiso). The league lost its top 2 programs over the past 10 years (and Loyola, though they only got good after leaving) and replaced them as best they could in two circumstances (Oakland and NKU) and pretty haphazardly in another two. Any league, particularly one as public school heavy as the Horizon League, will have a hard time replacing top programs that leave, and because of that, the league as a whole (of which Milwaukee is a member) suffers.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Feb 19, 2020 18:10:38 GMT -6
Many are beating the HL like a dead horse. What I mean is, this league was still a one bid league 10 years ago.
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