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Post by PantherU on May 29, 2013 10:28:58 GMT -6
In any case, I think soccer is the future. Unlike every other sport we have, our soccer program is relevant nationally, has a deep and storied history, and has been undoubtedly successful for most of its existence. For those who haven't been paying attention, this program is just coming out of its dark ages (The Jon Coleman/Chris Whalley years). This sport needs to be shepherded for the day when college soccer is a major deal in this country. Agreed. I'd love to see the seating at Englemann redone to expand capacity, comfort, and experience. This field is a gem and the men's program is likely headed back to where it belongs. Why not invest in one of the best things we have going for us (after already investing in a world-class field along with lights)? Soccer is only going to get bigger. As much as I personally love baseball, we know that baseball will never be a nationally prominent program. We don't have the money to build a domed stadium. For that sport, I think the most important thing is to get them a FieldTurf field - that move alone would have eliminated 6-8 of our rainouts this year, and would limit future rainouts to those during games where it's actually raining. The beauty of FieldTurf is that it dries in under an hour, so as long as first pitch is an hour after the rain stops, it's gold. After that, putting in some decent stands and perhaps a nicer "Panther Lounge" can be done fairly cheap. We won't spend what UIC is spending on their stadium, but we can vastly improve the Hank with just a couple million. It's different for soccer. There are more pro soccer players than pro football players. They make a higher average salary; the MLS average is growing ever higher as well, giving athletes a viable domestic option in that sport. MLS averages more than the NBA and NHL in attendance. The average pro soccer player career is several years longer than the average pro football career, and the sport generally leaves no lasting physical damage - pro football's average career is 3 1/2 years, and 3 years after retirement most players are broke. They are also saddled with bad head injuries that we are learning more and more about by the day. Essentially what I'm saying is that soccer is on the rise in America, and it's on the decline in football - or, will be on the decline in the near future. We don't play football, and that's okay - when you see down the road what will happen to all these schools investing hundreds of millions in the sport, you see how it's even better than okay. We do play soccer, and until the last bunch of years we were one of the national elite. I would say that while baseball can get us more notoriety in the present - I know of a few people who wore Panther gear these past couple weeks who got a "How about that baseball team?" from random strangers - the long term possibilities of this school having a second revenue sport, a second flagship sport, are in the sport we've always been good at - soccer. Engelmann Stadium is a gorgeous home for the sport, but no one can argue the fact that it needs severe upgrades if it is going to be the home of a big-time program. From the northwest corner at Cunningham Hall all the way around to the southern edge up against the Chemistry building should be enclosed by a stadium. The drawings exist, and they are phenomenal. If I can get a couple snapshots of them I will. The truth is, Engelmann Field is the one "gem" we have. There is absolutely no reason it shouldn't get the king's treatment. This is something we can do to vastly improve our program without having to add a new sport or anything crazy like that. It's also a fall outdoor sport, the kind that carries the romance of college football at a smaller size. I just think bringing soccer to the front, behind basketball, is the way we're going to make ourselves better. If we invest in the program, once soccer is a much larger sport in 10-15 years, we're going to reap the benefits of being better than Marquette and Wisconsin. You think it's an accident that Indiana and Akron have spent so much improving their programs? When it's all said and done, and football falls off its pedestal, Indiana is going to own the Big Ten and Akron is going to be better than Ohio State in a sport that matters greatly. Don't be surprised in 25 years to see many soccer teams playing in 15,000-seat stadiums. |
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Post by illwauk on May 29, 2013 14:25:49 GMT -6
From the northwest corner at Cunningham Hall all the way around to the southern edge up against the Chemistry building should be enclosed by a stadium. The drawings exist, and they are phenomenal. If I can get a couple snapshots of them I will.Please do! Large crowds already gather at the Gasthaus for major European matches, so there's definitely a market for soccer on our campus. There's no reason there can't/shouldn't be at least 1,000 people at every home match with our student population as large as it is. |
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Post by Pantherholic on May 29, 2013 18:42:56 GMT -6
MLS averages more than the NBA and NHL in attendance. To be fair the #s for this are incredibly skewed as every MLS team has only 17 home games compared to the NBA's & NHL's 41. That's like saying MLB is more popular than either college or pro football based on total season attendance. Engelmann Stadium is a gorgeous home for the sport, but no one can argue the fact that it needs severe upgrades if it is going to be the home of a big-time program. From the northwest corner at Cunningham Hall all the way around to the southern edge up against the Chemistry building should be enclosed by a stadium. The drawings exist, and they are phenomenal. If I can get a couple snapshots of them I will. Is there a plan to fundraise? I'm assuming this would be a third priority behind basketball and baseball. |
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Post by gman2 on May 29, 2013 21:02:44 GMT -6
What about Lacrosse? It is gaining in popularity. A lacrosse field is slightly larger than a soccer field, by 10 yards. Can Englemann accommodate that? Marquette had 4200 at the game against Duke and 1100 against Detroit.
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Post by PantherU on May 30, 2013 7:46:37 GMT -6
Lacrosse is exceedingly expensive for a sport that doesn't usually produce enough revenue. Basketball, soccer, baseball. Keep hammering those three sports. That's what it needs to be. Hammer those three into your heads.
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Post by gman2 on May 30, 2013 11:47:32 GMT -6
Lacrosse is exceedingly expensive for a sport that doesn't usually produce enough revenue. Basketball, soccer, baseball. Keep hammering those three sports. That's what it needs to be. Hammer those three into your heads. Baseball is a great sport. But do not lose site of potential for lacrosse. What is the usual attendance at a baseball game? Marquette can draw 1100 against Detroit for lacrosse. Even if UWM can draw a third or half that for lacrosse, it is comparable to baseball in attendance. If you are upgrading Engelmann to make it a premier facility, how about a Soccer/Lacrosse facility: www.scarletknights.com/facilities/yurcak.aspwww.vucommodores.com/facilities/soc-lax-complex.htmlwww.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=205323731www.gopsusports.com/facilities/jeffrey-field.htmlThe list could go on. So lacrosse can ride on the back of soccer and use a first class facility, whereas you have to still make the investment to have a first class baseball facility. I'm not saying lacrosse is cheap, but from a relative standpoint, lacrosse may not as expensive as you think. |
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Post by illwauk on May 30, 2013 16:02:53 GMT -6
A couple more advantages to investing in Engelmann... while a NWL team might not be so quick to rent out a hypothetical Milwaukee baseball facility with a current team only 20 miles away; a 5,000-seat soccer facility would look very attractive to the NASL, which NEEDS a more contiguous footprint (they don't have another club within 1,200 miles of Minnesota United).
There's also the possibility of a renovated Engelmann being able to host football, which would give the club football team an on-campus home provided they'd be willing to purchase their own fieldturf (which they'd probably be more than willing to do... seeing how they currently piss away a lot of money renting out facilities for home games).
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Post by tom22 on Dec 1, 2018 0:05:15 GMT -6
Agreed. I'd love to see the seating at Englemann redone to expand capacity, comfort, and experience. This field is a gem and the men's program is likely headed back to where it belongs. Why not invest in one of the best things we have going for us (after already investing in a world-class field along with lights)? Soccer is only going to get bigger. As much as I personally love baseball, we know that baseball will never be a nationally prominent program. We don't have the money to build a domed stadium. For that sport, I think the most important thing is to get them a FieldTurf field - that move alone would have eliminated 6-8 of our rainouts this year, and would limit future rainouts to those during games where it's actually raining. The beauty of FieldTurf is that it dries in under an hour, so as long as first pitch is an hour after the rain stops, it's gold. After that, putting in some decent stands and perhaps a nicer "Panther Lounge" can be done fairly cheap. We won't spend what UIC is spending on their stadium, but we can vastly improve the Hank with just a couple million. It's different for soccer. There are more pro soccer players than pro football players. They make a higher average salary; the MLS average is growing ever higher as well, giving athletes a viable domestic option in that sport. MLS averages more than the NBA and NHL in attendance. The average pro soccer player career is several years longer than the average pro football career, and the sport generally leaves no lasting physical damage - pro football's average career is 3 1/2 years, and 3 years after retirement most players are broke. They are also saddled with bad head injuries that we are learning more and more about by the day. Essentially what I'm saying is that soccer is on the rise in America, and it's on the decline in football - or, will be on the decline in the near future. We don't play football, and that's okay - when you see down the road what will happen to all these schools investing hundreds of millions in the sport, you see how it's even better than okay. We do play soccer, and until the last bunch of years we were one of the national elite. I would say that while baseball can get us more notoriety in the present - I know of a few people who wore Panther gear these past couple weeks who got a "How about that baseball team?" from random strangers - the long term possibilities of this school having a second revenue sport, a second flagship sport, are in the sport we've always been good at - soccer. Engelmann Stadium is a gorgeous home for the sport, but no one can argue the fact that it needs severe upgrades if it is going to be the home of a big-time program. From the northwest corner at Cunningham Hall all the way around to the southern edge up against the Chemistry building should be enclosed by a stadium. The drawings exist, and they are phenomenal. If I can get a couple snapshots of them I will. The truth is, Engelmann Field is the one "gem" we have. There is absolutely no reason it shouldn't get the king's treatment. This is something we can do to vastly improve our program without having to add a new sport or anything crazy like that. It's also a fall outdoor sport, the kind that carries the romance of college football at a smaller size. I just think bringing soccer to the front, behind basketball, is the way we're going to make ourselves better. If we invest in the program, once soccer is a much larger sport in 10-15 years, we're going to reap the benefits of being better than Marquette and Wisconsin. You think it's an accident that Indiana and Akron have spent so much improving their programs? When it's all said and done, and football falls off its pedestal, Indiana is going to own the Big Ten and Akron is going to be better than Ohio State in a sport that matters greatly. Don't be surprised in 25 years to see many soccer teams playing in 15,000-seat stadiums. Speaking of ... ^^ ^^ Many years later but - I just saw that Indiana and Akron just made it to the NCAA Soccer Final Four once again. BlackPanther knows about powerhouse soccer programs for sure. Of course its much harder done than said to build a powerhouse program. Not sure if Milwaukee's program has seen much improvement over the last 5 years. IU definitely knows what they are doing. Since the late 70's , they've won 8 NCAA soccer championships and have been in many more Championship games and Final Fours. As the #2 overall seed, they likely will be favored to win a 9th title with #1 seed Wake Forest already out - although soccer isn't too predictable, so who knows. |
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Post by milwsport on Jan 15, 2019 0:55:47 GMT -6
My husband and I went to several Panther soccer games this year. I kind of like the atmosphere at Engleman. It's homey and while the crowd could be bigger, people sit closer together.
I would improve the sound system though. Announcements are difficult to hear. I also think some promos are in order to draw in more fans especially from the dorms. When they show up the dormies are a fierce rooting section, loud and entertaining.
I do agree though that it makes sense to put major resources into soccer. Milwaukee has a lot of soccer teams and there is a growing fan base to draw support from.
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Post by PantherU on Jan 15, 2019 18:41:26 GMT -6
My husband and I went to several Panther soccer games this year. I kind of like the atmosphere at Engleman. It's homey and while the crowd could be bigger, people sit closer together. I would improve the sound system though. Announcements are difficult to hear. I also think some promos are in order to draw in more fans especially from the dorms. When they show up the dormies are a fierce rooting section, loud and entertaining. I do agree though that it makes sense to put major resources into soccer. Milwaukee has a lot of soccer teams and there is a growing fan base to draw support from. Well said, Sport! Soccer's a great game that has unfortunately been difficult to translate from a player's sport to a spectator sport. Nationally, having the US miss the last World Cup hurt development in that arena. I'm not sure if soccer will ever be big on a college level now. Internationally, development is done at the club level, and as the US gets better talent at college age they're putting themselves into training academies or even going overseas. It's kinda like the NCAA vs the G League in basketball, except the NCAA is well-established as a major money-making sport. Once soccer really gets going, the NCAA is probably going to have a hell of a time getting even third-tier 18-year old prospects. If a 'ESPN 150' of soccer recruiting ranking were to eventually be released, it would be hard-pressed to get people excited about college soccer when 90 of the top 100 recruits instead choose a development academy, USL team or other routes than college. I still think UWM should try and build a stadium at some point; there's an argument for using it as mixed-use space, putting on small outdoor concerts or other events that could use a 2,500-4,000-seat outdoor stadium. I like the idea of using it for a club football team, but I don't know how temporary lines would get painted on the synthetic surface and I don't know if it's even a good idea. Justin Lettenberger would be a great person to bring into this conversation; he knows synthetic surfaces like the back of his hand. I'm happy with soccer. I want them to get better yet I'm still bitter that David Nikolic has never found his way back onto our pitch as the head coach for either the men's or women's team. The line Amanda told me when I asked her, "He wasn't ready," was frankly insulting to me and that was the beginning of the end for me with her. You can't tell me that a guy who is associate head coach of a Big Ten school (the same school she later hired Baldwin from), who owns recruiting in Wisconsin and Illinois, who is Milwaukee alumni, who helped run our women's soccer program for 18 years, who started us on a streak of 14 straight championship seasons (of which he was responsible for 11), whose dream job is coaching the Black and Gold, isn't ready to take the reins of our program. Forget everything else she did with basketball, as far as her reasoning for not hiring David Nikolic, she sounded like an idiot. Thankfully it's worked out; Troy Fabiano didn't do much in year one, but has won a title every year since. When they needed the lights on Engelmann, Mike Moynihan and David Nikolic led the fundraising. When they needed a synthetic surface on Engelmann, Mike Moynihan and David Nikolic led the fundraising. When they needed practically anything for soccer, Mike Moynihan and David Nikolic led the fundraising. So I wouldn't expect much to happen for soccer. This is also what I would say to baseball players and parents who would complain about fans and the athletic department wanting to raise money for men's basketball - if you're a non-revenue sport and you want to build something, raise the money yourself. Soccer has modernized facilities because their coaches worked their asses off raising the money to build them. As an aside, it's really nice to see Panthers Baseball getting a legit stadium that will be a better home than Miller Park or the Hank. I drive past the Routine Field construction frequently, and I'm skeptical that it will be ready to go by March 29th. But it'll be cool to have a stadium, whenever it's done. |
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Post by milwsport on Jan 15, 2019 22:49:17 GMT -6
Some of the soccer games we went to had crowds almost as big as what I hear the Men's BB crowds are. When UWM played at Marquette there was a sizable student contingent sitting in the str ands.
College FB is still king for now but that can change. People are tired of the same five or six teams in the playoffs every year. It appears that the deck is stacked (for evidence of that review the tape of the UW-OSU Big 10 Championship game in 2017.)
Few College FB programs make money and their numbers are shrinking as schools decide it's just too expensive.
Soccer on the hand is cheaper way cheaper. AND there are four or five times as many kids playing soccer right now than there are playing football and baseball combined. And they aren't worried about brain damage, a worry that has kept many parents from allowing their sons to play FB. The number of fans will grow.
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Post by tom22 on Jan 22, 2019 23:00:55 GMT -6
In my opinion though - soccer is extremely boring. NFL football is my favorite team sport - and NFL games are far and away the most popular games to watch based on total US television audience. Maybe it’s slipping some - but soccer is a sport that is so boring, if I happen to be switching through the tv channels and hit a channel with a soccer game on - I immediately click the button again to get away from a boring soccer game. College football, college basketball, and NBA basketball are my other favorite sport leagues to watch. Baseball is too slow and boring - and hockey is also boring. Hockey and soccer are the worst because of the lack of scoring. At least with hockey you often get games with 5 - 6 goals scored. Soccer is extremely pathetic - with typical scores being 1 - 0, 1 - 1, 0 - 0, 2 - 1.... Spending two hours watching a boring game where there may only be 1 or 2 goals scored is a waste of time in my opinion.
Obviously others feel different - but not too many - just look at pathetic viewer ratings for soccer matches in the US. People may think soccer is interesting - but they’ll never change my opinion. Soccer = BORING!!
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Post by mcdadenets50 on Jan 23, 2019 17:40:53 GMT -6
In my opinion though - soccer is extremely boring. NFL football is my favorite team sport - and NFL games are far and away the most popular games to watch based on total US television audience. Maybe it’s slipping some - but soccer is a sport that is so boring, if I happen to be switching through the tv channels and hit a channel with a soccer game on - I immediately click the button again to get away from a boring soccer game. College football, college basketball, and NBA basketball are my other favorite sport leagues to watch. Baseball is too slow and boring - and hockey is also boring. Hockey and soccer are the worst because of the lack of scoring. At least with hockey you often get games with 5 - 6 goals scored. Soccer is extremely pathetic - with typical scores being 1 - 0, 1 - 1, 0 - 0, 2 - 1.... Spending two hours watching a boring game where there may only be 1 or 2 goals scored is a waste of time in my opinion. Obviously others feel different - but not too many - just look at pathetic viewer ratings for soccer matches in the US. People may think soccer is interesting - but they’ll never change my opinion. Soccer = BORING!! BOO! Soccer is the beautiful game. Let's go Citizens! (Looking at you 'Holic) |
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Post by tom22 on Jan 24, 2019 23:16:05 GMT -6
Soccer has been "the next huge sport" in America for 50 years. They'll probably still be saying the same thing 50 years from now. Its BORING!
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Post by milwsport on Jan 29, 2019 23:50:18 GMT -6
Soccer has been "the next huge sport" in America for 50 years. They'll probably still be saying the same thing 50 years from now. Its BORING! You may find it boring because you don't understand the game, the strategies, and the skill involved. My husband is more into soccer than I am but as I've gone to more games, talked to players and other fans, I have gained a better understanding of theg game. Unlike most other sports, a great play doesn't normally lead to a score, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of great plays during a game. When you understand what they are and the different strategies you get more excited about the game. |
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