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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on May 26, 2017 13:16:47 GMT -6
Wow, UMKC and Omaha would be luke warm on the Horizon League. LeCrone needs to get the Robert Morris thing done. They would be a nice addition to the HL.
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Post by PantherU on May 26, 2017 15:16:00 GMT -6
Big DWSU brought up the idea that we should add Grand Canyon and NMSU as well as any strong basketball programs, even if it's just on a short-term basis. I'm warming up to the idea. I don't see that happening. Here is what I have heard from the contacts I have around the conference. Take it for what it's worth. Robert Morris will be team #10 added to the HL. It might be announced sometimes this summer but they cannot join until 2018/19. The want to join the HL but they have to iron out what they are doing with their football and lacrosse teams since we obviously don't sponsor those sports. After that LeCrone is throwing sh*t at the wall and is seeing what sticks. He wants to get us to 12 teams by 2019/20 but doesn't have any good takers. IUPUI, IPFW, and D2 Southern Indiana want in. Belmont and Murray State have no interest in joining. New Mexico State, Grand Canyon, Omaha, UMKC, and Denver all have luke warm interest in joining. My personal thoughts after talking to everyone I know is that we add Robert Morris next year and then IPFW and Southern Indiana the following year. Belmont and Murray State are a pipe dream. LeCrone may want to expand the conference out west but those schools won't get the votes needed to expand because of travel costs. We will settle on 2 Indiana teams to keep the conference geography tight because we have too many ADs worried about finances to see the big picture. "I don't see that happening. Here is what I have heard from the contacts I have around the conference. Take it for what it's worth." I have zero problem believing this. Good lord this sucks. Fort Wayne makes some sense, but they've only broken the 3,000 mark in average attendance once in the last 15 years, and that was in 2005-06. The school is in reshuffling and Purdue has decided to name it Purdue-Fort Wayne, which is just a crappy, crappy name for a university whose athletics program wants to represent the area. The good news? They only have the Mad Ants to contend with in the area. They may be getting a new arena that will be on the city and county's dime, which isn't such good news for taxpayers in the city and county. That arena could cost $105 million, according to the latest estimates. The basketball team would be attractive if the CIT had meaning here. It doesn't matter in the context of helping the Horizon League. They'd need to add 80k to their hoops expenses to bring them in line with Youngstown State. I'll say this; their only conference title happened in 2016. They have made their only three postseason appearances in the last four years, albeit to the CIT. So while we can say they're not of the caliber program we're looking for, we should also concede that they're getting better.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Jun 2, 2017 10:36:58 GMT -6
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Post by PantherU on Jun 2, 2017 15:11:15 GMT -6
I didn't have the chance to post this before, but the point I was going to make about the WCC was in the first paragraph of that blog post: there ain't no way in hell the WCC is taking in GCU.
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Post by striker14 on Jun 2, 2017 18:59:38 GMT -6
Does anyone know what the cost difference is between, say, busing to Valparaiso vs flying to Phoenix? if it isn't significant I guess I wouldn't be too opposed to it. As it sits the WAC has schools all over the place and while it isn't an ideal situation they make it work on what I have to believe is a much lesser budget than we have.
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Post by mrjamesscott on Jun 2, 2017 19:47:20 GMT -6
I've been seeing a lot of talk about how bringing in GCU wouldn't work for the budget but Chicago St. is in their conference and both programs seem to make the travel cost work for them. We're about an hour and a half away from Chicago so I don't see where the problem lies. Can someone explain why the cost would be so significant that that'd pass up on us?
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Post by Cactus Panther on Jun 2, 2017 21:06:23 GMT -6
Yes PantherU, the stigma of being a for-profit adversely affects GCU. They tried hard to return to not-for-profit, but the regional accreditation committee expressed it's disapproval last year. It's one of those things where self-serving politics within the committee got in the way.
I think the stigma is wearing off a little though. For example, when GCU first went to D1, no PAC 12 programs would play them. Last year, U of Arizona did and subsequently expressed satisfaction with the experience.
I hope HL members do not have a problem with the for-profit status. We'll see what eventually happens with the passage of time and consideration of money.
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Post by Cactus Panther on Jun 2, 2017 21:13:17 GMT -6
MrJamesScott, I think the issue is travel costs for existing HL programs. GCU can afford it. It's concern is whether the HL is good enough or if something better, like a newly formed conference that Jerry Colangelo alluded to.
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Post by PantherU on Jun 3, 2017 11:09:00 GMT -6
Jerry Colangelo is a man after my own heart. The guy gets this better than any academic I've ever met. He knows hoops isn't a sideshow, it's THE show - like James Caan said in The Program, 80,000 people don't show up to watch a kid take a biology midterm.
I still think the best option for us is a brand new conference. That "us" includes almost every HL program, so if it's done by using this conference that's a close second.
I mean, if you gave me a magic wand I'd probably just shed CSU and YSU. I know I've had choice words for other programs in the league but I think we're all starting to move to the right mindset, and most of us are in the right place.
Even Green Bay - our archrival and the one I've bagged on more than all save for YSU - is in a good place. The trend in college athletics spending is plateauing for mid-majors, so my worries about GB's financials all but evaporated. Even YSU has real optimism for the first time in years. CSU seems to be the only pit of bottomless despair in the HL right now.
Forgetting the "new conference," the HL should aim for 14. I was convinced by a UNI fan during the MVC discussions that the best thing about going more than 10 is the ability for the conference to limit bad games for good teams. Instead of divisions in hoops, what they do is split the league down the middle by projected strength. Seven teams each for 14, six teams each for a 12-team conference, the top projected finishers can be protected. Play a round robin against the fellow top 6/7 for 10/12 games, then one each against the bottom group for 16/18 (in a 14-team conference, the top team wouldn't play the bottom projected team in a given year). Scheduling like this would allow us to put our best foot forward as a conference in the eyes of the selection committee.
We have the opportunity. The MVC is gonna sit with their thumb up their ass because they think they'll be able to sit it out and wait. LeCrone needs to wrangle Robert Morris for as soon as possible, whether it's for this year or next. Then he needs to get on GCU and NMSU - travel for a little cheaper to sh*tty schools in your half of the country, or come up here and play better programs. I think that 12-team league - the current HL plus RMU, GCU & NMSU - could put multiple at-large teams in the NCAA Tournament before GCU and NMSU make their eventual, inevitable exit.
I've been talking to people and what Big DWSU has said checks out - that RMU is coming, they're just looking for a home for football and lacrosse. Both have plenty of options for homes - I think the CAA is where both will land - so everyone I've talked to thinks an announcement happens this summer.
The big thing that needs to happen, however, is in the heads of LeCrone and the Executive Council. They need to get on board with really pushing hoops to get better, and if they're truly on board with that the rest will follow.
Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards
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Post by Pantherholic on Jun 6, 2017 8:12:18 GMT -6
Wow, UMKC and Omaha would be luke warm on the Horizon League. LeCrone needs to get the Robert Morris thing done. They would be a nice addition to the HL. Omaha's finances are a major issue right now and notably expanding their budget isn't a good idea. Plus if they're still in contention for a spot in the Valley, why come to the HL? UMKC's weariness is good for us. They flat out suck. I would rather not expand than invite them.
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Post by Pantherholic on Jun 6, 2017 8:18:57 GMT -6
After that LeCrone is throwing sh*t at the wall and is seeing what sticks. This sentence could apply to so many things.
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Post by steveisback on Jun 6, 2017 9:28:43 GMT -6
Jimmy
Talk to me again on Robert Morris. I just do not get that one. Enrollment of 4,000. Building a new facility but only going to seat 4,000. Low RPI rank...no baseball....football and lacrosse. I just do not get it. Steve
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Post by steveisback on Jun 6, 2017 9:29:02 GMT -6
hockey too???
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Post by mkehoops on Nov 27, 2017 13:54:46 GMT -6
Cal State Bakersfield will be leaving the WAC to join the Big West. This could be the end for the WAC. I would imagine there is a good chance the Horizon League / Summit League will both look much different next year. I would love to see the Horizon League head west and add GCU, NMSU & UMKC.
Add one more from the Summit and get to 14?
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Post by ghostofdylan on Nov 27, 2017 14:05:01 GMT -6
Why UMKC?
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