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Post by PantherU on May 18, 2013 19:49:42 GMT -6
My full post on this subject is over on the PantherU forumsBall State once had a tennis missive that referred to us as Milwaukee-Wisconsin. David Woods once referred to us as Milwaukee-Green Bay, but I'm going to attribute that to the shrooms. Branding is most definitely the problem, and the mascot, though a small part of it, is still part of it. Gulls would be a great mascot; it's not like anyone finds a Buckeye or a Shocker or a Gopher particularly ferocious, it's that they are each unique in their own way. The uniqueness is what makes those mascots great. There's a reason Marquette spent so much time and effort trying to come up with a new mascot; with the right one, and the right branding, marketing becomes a simple task and you can make some real money. The funny thing is that Marquette actually had a perfect choice when they wasted it on "Gold" then a rerun of "Golden Eagles" - the Golden Avalanche was an excellent name that would have been unique, terrorizing and somewhat relevant (we get snow, even though it doesn't tumble downhill). As for mascots, what you want to do (if you're starting from scratch) is find something that is unique, relevant and marketable. Gulls is unique and relevant, but I don't know how marketable it is. Once upon a time someone suggested the Hops, which I thought was very good: - Unique: not only are there no Hops in D-I, they don't exist anywhere to the best of my knowledge. - Relevant: It's an obvious nod to Milwaukee's brewing history/culture/manufacturing without attaching us to alcohol; also, rabbits are everywhere in this town. - Marketable: You know people in southeast Wisconsin would "hop" all over this. If the logo is really cool, it's going to be everywhere too. My full post on this subject is over on the PantherU forums
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Post by Pantherholic on May 19, 2013 8:34:58 GMT -6
...and just because our nickname is Panthers now doesn't mean it should remain as such for perpetuity. I never said I liked Panthers I only said I didn't like Gulls. If we were to change nicknames I wouldn't really be broken up about it. That's nice, but recruits do care about stuff like this... to where coaches openly admit as such. <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>This rebranding is about 3 things. 1. Recruiting 2. Recruiting 3. Recruiting.Talking to you Class of 2014! <a href=" twitter.com/search/%23GoBeavs">#GoBeavs</a></p>— Mike Riley (@coach_Riley) <a href="">March 5, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> This would've been a better argument if Oregon State changed their nickname or even colors. All they did was tweak their logo and unveil new football uniforms. What they need to do to rebrand is beat Oregon because they can look however they want but they're still second fiddle. Valid points, but if we had a unique nickname like Gulls... and not one that's shared with two pro teams, a bunch of other colleges, and at least a half-dozen high schools in Wisconsin alone... we could push that half of the brand while we figure out what to do about the other half; and more importantly, we'd at least have something easy and concise to call the team in the meantime. Not knowing how you even want yourself to be referred to is a much bigger problem than what your nickname is. I saw a guy with a UWM hoodie on last night that said both "UWM" AND "UW-Milwaukee" on the front of the hoodie. That is embarrassing and incredibly stupid. It also hurts our perception as you get idiots who refer to us "Wisc-Mil" "Univ of Milwaukee-Wisconsin" etc. The national casual bball fan won't remember our nickname until they're reminded of what it is. They will remember if we're UWM or Milwaukee or Wisconsin-Milwaukee. This needs to be figured out long before we worry about a nickname/mascot. If you tell someone you're going to watch the Panthers game, they're just as likely to think you're talking about an NFL game involving a team from the Carolinas. I'm sure you can count the instances on one hand of the amount of times that has ever happened. If someone thinks you're watching a Carolina Panthers game on a Tuesday night or going to see them live in Milwaukee, you're either talking to someone who doesn't follow sports or is a moron. |
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Post by illwauk on May 19, 2013 13:42:01 GMT -6
I never said I liked Panthers I only said I didn't like Gulls. If we were to change nicknames I wouldn't really be broken up about it. So why are you pressing so hard for the name change not to happen? I agree that the issues with what to actually call the team/school are valid ones that need to be discussed, but I'm not aware of any rules that say we can only talk about one branding issue (and ONLY one branding issue!) until it gets resolved. Especially when the second half of our brand could help alleviate some of of the issues caused by the first half. This would've been a better argument if Oregon State changed their nickname or even colors. All they did was tweak their logo and unveil new football uniforms. What they need to do to rebrand is beat Oregon because they can look however they want but they're still second fiddle. Well they did add silver to their color scheme, but no one is advocating for Milwaukee to change our colors; and Ore State doesn't need to change their nickname because they already have a unique one (that pulls in a lot of revenue from cheap merch sold to skeevy bros, at that). Either way, my point was that having cool "swag" (ugh!) to wear actually matters to recruits nowadays, and therefore, any school with a "big cat" logo is at a disadvantage because of the sheer number of schools that can offer essentially the same thing. Seriously, how many casual (or even hardcore) college sports fans could even tell you who all these belong to?  A nickname like Gulls would open Milwaukee up to much wider and more ambitious design possibilities, which would mean better gear, which means better recruits. Sad that stuff like this matters as much as it does nowadays, but with our facilities in the shape they are, we need all the advantages we can get. Not knowing how you even want yourself to be referred to is a much bigger problem than what your nickname is. I saw a guy with a UWM hoodie on last night that said both "UWM" AND "UW-Milwaukee" on the front of the hoodie. That is embarrassing and incredibly stupid. It also hurts our perception as you get idiots who refer to us "Wisc-Mil" "Univ of Milwaukee-Wisconsin" etc. The national casual bball fan won't remember our nickname until they're reminded of what it is. They will remember if we're UWM or Milwaukee or Wisconsin-Milwaukee. This needs to be figured out long before we worry about a nickname/mascot. Agreed, but the first half of our name is more complicated because no matter how much the athletic department pushes "Milwaukee," people will want to call us UWM, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and even the dreaded UW-Milwaukee as long as the academic side is still branded the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. The nickname issue is one that's more/less entirely in the hands of the athletic department, and branding wise, it'd still be a lot easier to sell UW-Milwaukee Gulls than UW-Milwaukee Panthers in situations where it absolutely has to come to that (F**k You, Urinal-Sentinel). If you tell someone you're going to watch the Panthers game, they're just as likely to think you're talking about an NFL game involving a team from the Carolinas. If someone thinks you're watching a Carolina Panthers game on a Tuesday night or going to see them live in Milwaukee, you're either talking to someone who doesn't follow sports or is a moron. It's been more than that, actually... maybe not much more, but the fact that it happens at all just shows how ineffective the Panthers nickname is in pushing the Milwaukee brand, which I think we all agree should be the main priority here (at least after the Cell issue is taken care of). |
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Lutzow10
Freshman
MILWAUKEE PROUD - PANTHER STRONG
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Post by Lutzow10 on May 19, 2013 14:25:59 GMT -6
I like the gulls by itself but it doesn't flow right for me as Milwaukee Gulls.
Jimmy's idea for Hops got me thinking. If someone could come up with an awesome logo for that either a hops creature or a bad ass rabbit with hops in the logo or just hops even. That would go national. As far as i know no school has gone with a name that so boldly toes the line of being an alcohol related mascot. Its kind of awesome when you think of it. Even brewers when you step back and think about it is possibly the most badass name for a sports team ever. It boldly flaunts as a beer mascot without giving off and inappropriate vibe to anyone. Little kids wear brewers stuff and there isn't a person on the planet getting upset about it.
For a college to do that would be unprecedented. It is tamer since it is not representing alcohol or the making of alcohol in anyway only the ingredient. But still, everyone knows what its implying. But at the same time it is harmless and conveys Milwaukee's roots. Its brilliant. But it would take someone equally brilliant to pull it off. It would take (an) amazing logo(s) and some great PR work but it would put our school on on the map. Plus it sounds great. Milwaukee Hops. That just sounds amazing.
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Post by Pantherholic on May 19, 2013 15:14:32 GMT -6
So why are you pressing so hard for the name change not to happen? If we were to change nicknames I wouldn't really be broken up about it. Seriously, how many casual (or even hardcore) college sports fans could even tell you who all these belong to? A nickname like Gulls would open Milwaukee up to much wider and more ambitious design possibilities, which would mean better gear, which means better recruits. Sad that stuff like this matters as much as it does nowadays, but with our facilities in the shape they are, we need all the advantages we can get. Again I've never said I'm pro-Panther. I just don't see the Gulls as a true step up. I'm in complete agreement "Panthers" is completely overplayed and unoriginal but that doesn't mean any alternative would be better. Agreed, but the first half of our name is more complicated because no matter how much the athletic department pushes "Milwaukee," people will want to call us UWM, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and even the dreaded UW-Milwaukee as long as the academic side is still branded the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. The nickname issue is one that's more/less entirely in the hands of the athletic department, and branding wise, it'd still be a lot easier to sell UW-Milwaukee Gulls than UW-Milwaukee Panthers in situations where it absolutely has to come to that (F**k You, Urinal-Sentinel). I know we had asked the JS to call us Milwaukee but we've never actually changed the athletic dept's name to "Milwaukee" right? I can't really fault the JS when the article I previously linked shows we clearly have no idea what we want to be called either. It's been more than that, actually... maybe not much more, but the fact that it happens at all just shows how ineffective the Panthers nickname is in pushing the Milwaukee brand... Well catering to non-sports fans is about as useful as Obama campaigning in Alabama. As for morons...catering to them should not be a priority. |
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Post by PantherU on May 19, 2013 15:20:02 GMT -6
As for UWMPanthers.com....type MKEPanthers.com or MilwaukeeAthletics.com into your browser and see what comes up.
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Post by Pantherholic on May 19, 2013 15:31:54 GMT -6
Relevant: It's an obvious nod to Milwaukee's brewing history/culture/manufacturing without attaching us to alcohol; also, rabbits are everywhere in this town. Funny enough my wife brought this idea up on Friday and I'm not real sure people would buy into the idea of not attaching "hops" to alcohol as well as the negative perceptions people have about the level of drinking that is already a problem in this state. The university isn't smart enough to put enough creative spin on the idea that its not alcohol related and I'm worried we'd have a rabbit for a mascot. Plus with having the Brewers already in town I'm not sure having a second alcohol-related nickname would get far. My one idea that's a guaranteed failure is to take a page from English soccer and our nickname would be the Blues (and yes thinking of Chelsea and their plastic fans makes me cringe). Blue is the primary color of the flag of Milwaukee and since we claim to want to be "Milwaukee's team" what better way to symbolize that than don the colors of our flag? It doesn't have a chance at happening as the secondary color (arguably) is yellow/gold. Two blue & gold teams in one city have as equal of a chance of happening as us going to the Final Four next year.  |
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Post by illwauk on May 19, 2013 16:48:16 GMT -6
Funny enough my wife brought this idea up on Friday and I'm not real sure people would buy into the idea of not attaching "hops" to alcohol as well as the negative perceptions people have about the level of drinking that is already a problem in this state. The university isn't smart enough to put enough creative spin on the idea that its not alcohol related and I'm worried we'd have a rabbit for a mascot. Plus with having the Brewers already in town I'm not sure having a second alcohol-related nickname would get far. Agreed with all of the above, which is why I've been pushing Gulls even though I'd still prefer Hops to Panthers. Also, South Dakota State already has a rabbit as their mascot, and there's still a relatively good possibility that they'll be a conference rival in the not-so-distant future. There's also the fact that UWM hasn't had much to do with Milwaukee's brewing heritage, historically. At least a marine bird makes sense as a symbol for a school dedicated to freshwater research. My one idea that's a guaranteed failure is to take a page from English soccer and our nickname would be the Blues (and yes thinking of Chelsea and their plastic fans makes me cringe). Blue is the primary color of the flag of Milwaukee and since we claim to want to be "Milwaukee's team" what better way to symbolize that than don the colors of our flag? It doesn't have a chance at happening as the secondary color (arguably) is yellow/gold. Two blue & gold teams in one city have as equal of a chance of happening as us going to the Final Four next year. Speaking of looooong overdue re-brands; Milwaukee needs a new flag, like, five decades ago. It probably won't surprise anyone that I think we should just adopt the Milwaukee civil war flag (that's in the lower left corner of the big gear) as our official flag. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing that flag on our uniforms since the colors are similar enough for it to work. But it's funny you should mention soccer, because that might be an elegant solution to our branding problem. "Bayern Munchen" (translation: Bavaria Munich) is basically Munich's version of "Wisconsin Milwaukee," and Milwaukee is certainly full of Bavarian heritage. OK, so maybe it's not THAT elegant of a solution, but Bavaria's flag does look good in Milwaukee colors.  |
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Post by illwauk on May 19, 2013 16:52:52 GMT -6
I know we had asked the JS to call us Milwaukee but we've never actually changed the athletic dept's name to "Milwaukee" right? I can't really fault the JS when the article I previously linked shows we clearly have no idea what we want to be called either. I'm not sure what the situation behind that is, but you'll get no argument from me that the inconsistency on our own website is definitely a problem. Well catering to non-sports fans is about as useful as Obama campaigning in Alabama. As for morons...catering to them should not be a priority. I don't think it's so much a lack of intelligence so much as the fact that not everyone thinks these things through all at once. My dad (who is a sports fan and not a moron) once told me he was wondering why I was wearing a Carolina Panthers hoodie until he got close enough to actually read the "Milwaukee" part... and he has a kid at the friggin' school! |
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Post by illwauk on May 19, 2013 17:38:46 GMT -6
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Post by PantherU on May 19, 2013 22:49:54 GMT -6
Jackrabbits and rabbits are like Gulls and any other bird mascot. Birds...cats...dogs...just don't excite me. But your post got me thinking.......
...........what about the Bavarians?
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mwu
Sophomore
I am U-Dub U-M
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Post by mwu on May 20, 2013 8:54:11 GMT -6
I really don't care for Gulls, I think it's fine as a throwback gimmick every once and awhile. It is nice to have something like that to draw upon time and again, it gives the perception that our relatively young University has a deeper past than it actually does.
Holic mentioned the adverse effects of having a second blue/gold clad team in town, well what about a second bird team?
If we're using local animals just for the sake of being local then why not the Robin? It is our State Bird. If it must be a predator, then why not coyotes or fox? There's plenty of them in the county also. And there's the ever elusive Milwaukee dumpster raccoon.
A better animal alternative might be looking in our prehistoric past. The State fossil is the Claymene celebra trilobite.
Mammoths/Mastodons have been found all over the state, the one in the museum was dug up in Kenosha. Think of the "Ice Age" type marketing! What a great way to get more kids and families to games and wear university apparel. I mean we have the Wisconsinan Glaciation Period named after our State, something a little more substantial to tap into than merely animal "X" lives in our immediate area.
Side note: I know IPFW uses the Mastodon nickname but we can do a better job marketing than them right? Nationlly/Regionally our University has had more exposure than IPFW and likely always will.
Ultimately, I think if we must change our nickname, BP might be on a better course by using a more human caricature that defines the region. Bavarians, Mariners, Industrialists could all be viable personifications.
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Post by buppie05 on May 20, 2013 9:36:22 GMT -6
I really don't care for Gulls, I think it's fine as a throwback gimmick every once and awhile. It is nice to have something like that to draw upon time and again, it gives the perception that our relatively young University has a deeper past than it actually does. Holic mentioned the adverse effects of having a second blue/gold clad team in town, well what about a second bird team? If we're using local animals just for the sake of being local then why not the Robin? It is our State Bird. If it must be a predator, then why not coyotes or fox? There's plenty of them in the county also. And there's the ever elusive Milwaukee dumpster raccoon. A better animal alternative might be looking in our prehistoric past. The State fossil is the Claymene celebra trilobite. Mammoths/Mastodons have been found all over the state, the one in the museum was dug up in Kenosha. Think of the "Ice Age" type marketing! What a great way to get more kids and families to games and wear university apparel. I mean we have the Wisconsinan Glaciation Period named after our State, something a little more substantial to tap into than merely animal "X" lives in our immediate area. Side note: I know IPFW uses the Mastodon nickname but we can do a better job marketing than them right? Nationlly/Regionally our University has had more exposure than IPFW and likely always will. Ultimately, I think if we must change our nickname, BP might be on a better course by using a more human caricature that defines the region. Bavarians, Mariners, Industrialists could all be viable personifications. I think you might have something with the "Milwaukee racoons" or the coons. Mascot is a little furry head, peaking out of a dumpster. Definitely relevant to the region. |
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Post by ghostofdylan on May 20, 2013 10:56:58 GMT -6
The funny thing is that Marquette actually had a perfect choice when they wasted it on "Gold" then a rerun of "Golden Eagles" - the Golden Avalanche was an excellent name that would have been unique, terrorizing and somewhat relevant (we get snow, even though it doesn't tumble downhill) War Eagles. |
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mwu
Sophomore
I am U-Dub U-M
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Post by mwu on May 20, 2013 11:20:32 GMT -6
The funny thing is that Marquette actually had a perfect choice when they wasted it on "Gold" then a rerun of "Golden Eagles" - the Golden Avalanche was an excellent name that would have been unique, terrorizing and somewhat relevant (we get snow, even though it doesn't tumble downhill) War Eagles. Birds of War?  Stomp, Clap. Stomp, Stomp, Clap. |
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