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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 3, 2004 9:10:14 GMT -6
I am usually pretty slow to judge how classy a team (or an individual player) is due to the fact that I know that being in an emotional game sometimes causes you to do things that are out of character. In other words, you may say something you later regret, you may get a little over emotional, you may say something to a heckling fan (like the Klotche Krazies , etc. However, after two games with GB, I am still scratching my head regarding two fairly major plays IMO..........and was wondering if anyone else noticed them - both of them were by veteran players. Many people say that a team takes on the character of its coach............I do not know enough about Tod Kowalczyk, not have I seen him coach enough to make an accurate statement as to his character, but these plays in particular make you wonder. If one happens maybe, but if something happens again in the second game it makes you wonder. The plays that I am referring to are: 1. At the end of the GB game in GB, UWM is up handily and is running out the final seconds of the game by dribbling around. They could have easily attacked and tried to score again, but they chose to simply dribble the ball out - Brandon Morris (a Junior) tried to be sneak up behind Hill who was dribbling and steal the ball when he was not looking - he ended up knocking the ball out of bounds and UWM kept is anyways. I am all about playing the game till the end, but with less than 10 seconds left and down by over 10, give it up! That is a classless play when the other team has already decided not to shoot the ball. I can see (MAYBE) if he needed that steal to get a triple double or something, but this attempted steal ment nothing. If I was playing, I would not forget that play - that is just something that you don't do. 2. At the end of the GB game in Milwaukee. Again, UWM is up and the game is over........there are about 10 seconds left and this time UWM decides not to hold it and pull it out. Joah Tucker has a break away (free lane to the basket) and it going to dunk it. Kevin Hughes (a senior) tries to run him down and basically tackles him and gets an intentional foul (his fifth). IMO this is even worse than GB's first offense at home. THE GAME IS OVER! First of all, Hughes has NO shot at getting close to the ball, and why is he fouling anyways? Besides the fact that he fouled him, it was a poor, intentional foul. If he wanted to keep him from dunking, he should have just wraped him up instead of laying into him, which very easily could have hurt Tucker. Since Tucker did not get hurt, this play got overlooked by many, but if he would have gotten hurt, it would have been a BIG deal, trust me. Again, this is something that the players WILL NOT forget. IMO both of these plays were classless and simply not necessary. What do the rest of you think?
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Post by PantherLou on Feb 3, 2004 9:28:45 GMT -6
I didn't see the game at GB, so I can't make say much about that. I guess I don't have a problem with a player going for a steal in that situation. He's probabaly frustrated, and there is no real chance for injury.
The play at USC that you spoke of was complete crap! My seats are at about the top of the key, right where the foul occurred. You are correct in that Hughes had NO chance at the block, and the foul was a complete cheap shot. I try to keep from swearing at the games, because there is a family w/ kids right next to us, but I was so pissed at that play that I let a few choice expletives slip out. "You F**cking Cheap Piece of SH*T!!! PLAY F***ing Basketball!!'. I'm not too proud of that, but I was seriously pissed.
Is there any way a player can be suspended for a play like that? He should be.
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Post by pnthr97 on Feb 3, 2004 9:35:57 GMT -6
Pnthr30, I agree with both of your statements. After the game in GB, Bruce looked to have some not so kind words for Morris. After the game here, I may not have seen things correctly, but it looked to me as if quite a few of our guys refused to shake Hughes' hands. Can't blame them.
This is obviously becoming even more of a rivalry as it was before. And I do believe that the way GB plays, and these two plays, is a reflection of their coach. Tod (what's with the spelling) just flat out looks like a bastard.
As for a potential suspension, unfortunately, that can't be done.
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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 3, 2004 9:42:24 GMT -6
He can't be suspended, but if they play again, I would be careful if I was Hughes........especially if Wright got into the game....he has fouls to burn. Also, Nate has some pretty pointy elbows, and I know that he doesn't have much love for GB after they kept throwing the ball off his..........(fill in the blank).......last year when he was guarding the inbounder on the press.
In my experience, cheap shots will be repaid - maybe not right away, but things like that will come back to bite you. I am in no way saying that we should intentionally go after any of these guys, but there are many plays (legal) where you have the option to either lay into someone or pull up........don't look for UWM to pull up on anyone from GB in the future.
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Post by Hack on Feb 3, 2004 9:44:12 GMT -6
I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but from my seat (which was a pretty good view on the play) I didn't see anything overtly over-the-top done by Hughes.
He clearly went after the ball. The only reason why I think he got an intentional foul called on him was because the game would've probably gotten out of hand physically if it wasn't called.
Still, it was nice seeing that stiff pick up his fifth on an intentional foul. Has any player regressed as much as Hughes from his freshman year to his senior year?
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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 3, 2004 9:49:10 GMT -6
I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but from my seat (which was a pretty good view on the play) I didn't see anything overtly over-the-top done by Hughes. He clearly went after the ball. The only reason why I think he got an intentional foul called on him was because the game would've probably gotten out of hand physically if it wasn't called. Why was he even fouling him in the first place? He got an intentional because he was completely behind Tucker and you cannot foul someone with a clear path to the basket without getting called for an intentional foul. The game was WAY out of control physically from the start and should have been cleaned up 35 minutes before this play - it was just the culmination of a hard fought game with poor officiating. Calling an intentional foul with 10 seconds left does nothing to "control" the physical play.
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Post by Hack on Feb 3, 2004 9:57:03 GMT -6
Why was he fouling him? Well, since Tucker was still playing and going for the basket, I assume Hughes has the right to foul him too.
Simple, he didn't want to get dunked on. Hughes didn't go after Tucker's head or throw a body block at him. He went after the ball ... and yes he still got an intentional foul called on him. I don't see how he was being dirty on that play.
You can't have it both ways. Morris was out of line trying to steal the ball from Hill when he was running the clock out. I agree with that. But Joah was obviously still playing the game when he went in for a dunk, did you want UWGB to stop playing even though UWM still was?
Don't get me wrong. I have no love lost for Hughes or UWGB. But I really do think we are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
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Post by pnthr97 on Feb 3, 2004 10:18:42 GMT -6
325, I completely disagree with you, no offense. I watched the replay when I got home Saturday night and both of Hughes' arms, for some odd reason, were completely extended out. He may have initially gone for the ball, which I would have no problem with, but after the fact, he pushed JT down. I think that is where the intentional foul came in - creating the dirty play.
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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 3, 2004 10:39:59 GMT -6
If Morris wouldn't have tried to steal the ball, I can guarantee that BP would not have allowed the guys (JT in particular) to try to score at the end of the game.
I don't have a problem with "a" foul in that situation per say, but the way this foul was committed was completely uncalled for. Hughes would not have "gotten dunked on" seeing as he was way behind the play. Getting dunk on is when you actually try to stop/block a dunk, and/or jump with someone. Hughes would not have lost any "face" by simply letting JT dunk.
I can see your point in not wanting the other team to get a dunk, but then wrap him up, don't push him when he is trying to take off. I guess this foul is better than undercutting him, in which case things might have gotten really ugly, but still, the way this foul was committed was uncalled for - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I would be saying the same thing if JT would have fouled Hughes at the end of the game as well - as a basketball player, it is just a bad play all around.
This play will not be forgotten, just like the one involving Morris wasn't fogotten. Plays like this simply pour more fuel on the rivalry.
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kaygee
Sophomore
Panther Pride since 1994!
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Post by kaygee on Feb 3, 2004 12:59:46 GMT -6
Morris is just mad because he might be realizing he picked the wrong UW school to attend.....from Pearl's comments recently, it sounds like Morris could have been a Panther if he had wanted to be. I agree that a team many times takes on the personality of the coach. Just four years ago, I got to see Morris play for Kenosha St. Joe's quite a few times up close and he seemed to be a classy player that I always thought would look good in black and gold. Instead he is wearing green and white and acted like a goofball like his coach Tod K. I don't think Crean taught Tod K. to act like he has. I guess he trying to establish his own rep......that of a goofball!
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kaygee
Sophomore
Panther Pride since 1994!
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Post by kaygee on Feb 3, 2004 13:04:26 GMT -6
I agree with pnthr30's assesment of Hughes.....he is a goon and that was uncalled for. I have to say I am very proud of the how the Panthers have walked away from many confrontations when the opposing team has unraveled this season (ie. UIC and GB), especially Dylan Page and Joah. Teams have figured out they have no way of stopping Page, so now they are trying to bullying him on the offensive. All it has done is made others like Joah and Kalombo step up and Dylan has remained his classy self. I hope there is another Dylan Page waiting in the wings for the future.
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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 3, 2004 13:12:17 GMT -6
I think that kaygee brings up a great point. None of our players, especially our big three, have taken the "bait" of opposing players when tried to get them out of their games by various means. Dylan, especially, has been taken a pounding all year and has never seemed to loose his cool. I think this is a testiment to the kind of players that we have, as well as the coaching staff we have. It is hard to keep your cool when everyone is gunning for you and giving you all you can stand. It is great to see the team as focused as they are - they just go out and handle their business.
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Post by Hack on Feb 3, 2004 17:15:42 GMT -6
OK, my bad. From my seat I could only see Hughes' hand swat at the ball. I just watched the replay of that play and there's no doubt that Hughes put his shoulder into Joah and shoved him away. Dirty play. I was shielded by Hughes' body from my angle and couldn't see what really went down. Now I hope UWM plays UWGB in the tourney and gets another crack at that little b!#ch.
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