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Post by gotskillz on Jun 7, 2012 6:03:37 GMT -6
We already have a first class racing facility in Wisconsin that has a pretty significant schedule. www.roadamerica.com/The Mile isn't needed. Apples and Oranges. The Milwaukee Mile and Road America might both be race tracks but they are very different. There are some cross over fans but the racing and the viewing experience is unique at each venue and cater to their own crowds. Under this logic why even propose this new multi use stadium? After all in this area of the state already you can go to a concert at Alpine Valley or the Marcus Ampitheater. You can make a short drive to Madison to see college football on a big scale or Whitewater to see it on a really successful level. If Road America makes the Mile unnecessary why doesn't the existing access to venues and teams do the same for this idea? Not related to the post I quoted but related to this thead. I keep reading MLS team. The most recent MLS team had an expansion fee of 40 million dollars. The league now thinks they can get twice that for the next expansion. Who exactly is going to pay 40 to 80 million dollars to buy a MLS team for the Milwaukee area? With the exception of the Pettit Center and the Expo Center the whole state fair park is a white elephant that isn't used year round. I love the State Fair but if you are talking about developing land the whole thing should be developed and used from a city of West Allis perspective, not just the Milwaukee Mile.
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Post by PantherU on Jun 7, 2012 13:26:18 GMT -6
We already have a first class racing facility in Wisconsin that has a pretty significant schedule. www.roadamerica.com/The Mile isn't needed. Apples and Oranges. The Milwaukee Mile and Road America might both be race tracks but they are very different. There are some cross over fans but the racing and the viewing experience is unique at each venue and cater to their own crowds. Let's not kid ourselves. Road America and the Mile have the same fan base; the Mile, however, is the antiquated flat-track oval. The 2011 race had what...15,000 in attendance? That's awesome in college basketball (hell it would be great I-AA FCS football attendance) but for a race that's held once a year, it falls flat. Hopefully the Andretti's can get it going - these are real race promoters who know what they're doing, not like the promoters of last year's event. If they fail, however, there's your death knell. Under this logic why even propose this new multi use stadium? After all in this area of the state already you can go to a concert at Alpine Valley or the Marcus Ampitheater. You can make a short drive to Madison to see college football on a big scale or Whitewater to see it on a really successful level. If Road America makes the Mile unnecessary why doesn't the existing access to venues and teams do the same for this idea? I definitely understand where you're coming from for the concert venues - of course, the new, "hip" venue that may underbid the amphitheater or Alpine Valley could still draw in many acts. There's another added bonus that the proposed site would have, and that's accessibility. There's a reason State Fair is where it is - it is the heart of the five-county area. The Amphitheater is against the lake and people park up to a mile and a half away or ride the bus into the park area, especially in festival season when most of the concerts there are held. Alpine Valley is awesome and definitely has the size, but it's way out in the middle of nowhere and it only has permanent seating for 7,500 - I believe the grass seating adds it up to about 30,000 or so, but the fact of the matter is the proposed stadium is an entirely different animal than Alpine Valley - you're talking about 25,000 permanent seats and all of the grass adding up to what...40,000? It's bigger, it has the parking space to accommodate a full crowd like that, West Allis business in that area would boom like it does the week around State Fair...actually I wouldn't be surprised if Mayor Dan Devine, a Panther season-ticket holder, hasn't already considered something like this. Not related to the post I quoted but related to this thead. I keep reading MLS team. The most recent MLS team had an expansion fee of 40 million dollars. The league now thinks they can get twice that for the next expansion. Who exactly is going to pay 40 to 80 million dollars to buy a MLS team for the Milwaukee area? I'm not sure. MLS isn't the kind of soccer I follow, although I know that the organization - GM, potential ownership - is still around. If the Wave were to fail, I think you'd see a push towards it. If the Bucks were to move, I think you'd see a much bigger push. Scott Walker is all about selling off state property to avoid the costs of upkeep - who wants to bet he'd go for selling the Bradley Center to Marquette if the Bucks leave town? The BC is a terrible NBA arena, but the Warriors do just fine and I'm sure they'd love to own the facility. With the exception of the Pettit Center and the Expo Center the whole state fair park is a white elephant that isn't used year round. I love the State Fair but if you are talking about developing land the whole thing should be developed and used from a city of West Allis perspective, not just the Milwaukee Mile. The great part about that is, if you look at the space the Mile takes up, a football stadium - even a sizable one - would be just a small corner of the facility. Hell, you could plop Camp Randall Stadium down on the infield. We wouldn't be building a stadium anywhere near that size, and expansion to that size would be what...50 years from now, if ever? Point is, there's still a ton of space that could be used for an office park or literally anything else you could think of. With that hotel and water park going on the Mykono's space across the street, I'd say it's a great idea to build something on part of this space that could be used in so many different ways and for so many different teams. I'm just saying, there's such potential for that space, seeing half of it become a pond for an office building would be a waste.
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mwu
Sophomore
I am U-Dub U-M
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Post by mwu on Jun 7, 2012 21:55:50 GMT -6
A few things...
An MLS franchise is something Milwaukee should be looking into for the future. Indoor soccer is quickly becoming a relic. MLS now out draws both the NBA and the NHL.
The reuse of a portion of the Mile grandstands while noble in thought is unpractical at best. The sight lines for football sports would be marginal at best. The seating bowl rake is not designed for football. Views will be poor and very removed from the action.
You wouldn't be able to merely relocate bleacher sections as you propose. While the steal structure could be reused the concrete bowl sections would need to be recast. Again the slope would still be wrong for the sports to be played plus were you to change the slope the steel would have to be retooled & engineered for the new stresses imposed on the structure at a different angle. The corner sections as you show wouldn't come close to working in that configuration. You might as well buy new.
The racetrack problem is a tough problem, frankly I don't care about racing enough to care whether it is scrapped or not. for those racing fans out there, what makes this track not able to be used by the racing circuits? Does the allure of racing at a historic venue not exist, like playing at Wrigley or Fenway as examples? Is a flat track not challenging? I ask because I have no idea.
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Post by DunneDeal on Jun 8, 2012 7:29:40 GMT -6
The drivers love the mile, because it's diffrent than the banking turns elsewhere. It is historic, its not that the drivers dont want to come to Milwaukee, its the fan support.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Jun 8, 2012 15:18:00 GMT -6
An MLS franchise is something Milwaukee should be looking into for the future. Indoor soccer is quickly becoming a relic. MLS now out draws both the NBA and the NHL. I fear the ship may have sailed for an MLS franchise. It's unfortunate, because support would have been very high in Milwaukee, and a 20,000 seat European-style stadium would be perfect for our FCS football team. Also, MLS is only growing at this point, and the average attendance so far this season is 18,542 as of four days ago. There are simply too many other markets that are looking into an MLS franchise right now that are more "desirable" markets, including Detroit, Minneapolis, San Antonio, Orlando (my front runner for team #20), NYC 2, Atlanta, and San Diego. Milwaukee isn't even on MLS's radar anymore. There have been talks of expanding into a second division for MLS to clean up the US soccer pyramid, but I don't think anyone's going to attend those games in Milwaukee. The Milwaukee Rampage had players like Brian McBride and Tony Sanneh and still managed to fold.
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Post by The Green Gull on Jun 8, 2012 20:16:13 GMT -6
A few things... An MLS franchise is something Milwaukee should be looking into for the future. Indoor soccer is quickly becoming a relic. MLS now out draws both the NBA and the NHL. The reuse of a portion of the Mile grandstands while noble in thought is unpractical at best. The sight lines for football sports would be marginal at best. The seating bowl rake is not designed for football. Views will be poor and very removed from the action. You wouldn't be able to merely relocate bleacher sections as you propose. While the steal structure could be reused the concrete bowl sections would need to be recast. Again the slope would still be wrong for the sports to be played plus were you to change the slope the steel would have to be retooled & engineered for the new stresses imposed on the structure at a different angle. The corner sections as you show wouldn't come close to working in that configuration. You might as well buy new. Thanks for the insight. My idea is similar in nature to an idea that was floated around several years ago in 2007 by Marty Greenberg. www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31879799.html#!page=1&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst The idea back then was to build a soccer field on a tray in the infield that would be retractable and during games would be placed directly against the main grandstand. The concept of the retractable field is based on the University of Phoenix Stadium in Phoenix, AZ where the football field can be moved in and out of the stadium. My idea similar to Greenberg’s in that it would place the field directly next to the main grandstand. However, I believe a permanent soccer and football specific stadium should be built on the site of the Milwaukee Mile as a result of the poor long term viability and sustainability of the Milwaukee Mile as a racing track. I propose that there should be permanent bleachers connected to the main grandstand in both the south end zone as well as the east sidelines to create a soccer and football specific stadium. The bleachers which will connect with the main grandstand will have to be designed and built specifically for the proposed stadium as you correctly alluded to. • The section in the blue, is the bleachers section which will be designed and built to connect with the main grandstand. • The section in the red, will be the remaining grandstand which will be removed and sold to third parties.
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Post by gman2 on Jun 8, 2012 21:48:30 GMT -6
Milwaukee would actually be a very desirable market from a fan perspective, a large affluent suburban population that has successful soccer programs and an increasing Hispanic and Southeast Asian middle class that could be part of the fan base. What would hold Milwaukee back more than anything is that you will get no public support for a stadium. There were some examples given of recently built soccer stadiums, and all had significant public financing. You simply will not get that in Milwaukee.
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Post by PantherU on Jun 8, 2012 21:54:35 GMT -6
Milwaukee would actually be a very desirable market from a fan perspective, a large affluent suburban population that has successful soccer programs and an increasing Hispanic and Southeast Asian middle class that could be part of the fan base. What would hold Milwaukee back more than anything is that you will get no public support for a stadium. There were some examples given of recently built soccer stadiums, and all had significant public financing. You simply will not get that in Milwaukee. Agreed. I don't know if losing the Bucks would change that. I have a feeling that people wouldn't want to lose the title of a "major sports city," and having only one top-4 league franchise (Brewers) would take that title away.
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Post by Pantherholic on Jun 9, 2012 7:06:18 GMT -6
MLS now out draws both the NBA and the NHL. That's an incredibly subjective argument. Yes on a per game basis they draw more but when you play less than half as many home games in a season you're able to do that. That's like saying the Brewers are the most popular team in the state because they beat the Packers in overall ticket sales. MLS at best will compete with hockey for 4th place in national popularity and that's a realistic possibility given Donald Fehr is now in charge of the NHLPA.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Jun 9, 2012 9:19:50 GMT -6
MLS now out draws both the NBA and the NHL. That's an incredibly subjective argument. Yes on a per game basis they draw more but when you play less than half as many home games in a season you're able to do that. That's like saying the Brewers are the most popular team in the state because they beat the Packers in overall ticket sales. MLS at best will compete with hockey for 4th place in national popularity and that's a realistic possibility given Donald Fehr is now in charge of the NHLPA. The reason why MLS throws that number around is because skeptics argued that they would never out-draw the other leagues in terms of fans per game. No one is arguing that MLS is legitimately ahead of those leagues. It's just an impressive feat, but until the TV revenue goes up, it's all for nothing. The NBC Sports Network deal is a good first step.
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Post by uwmfutbol on Jun 9, 2012 9:21:09 GMT -6
Milwaukee would actually be a very desirable market from a fan perspective, a large affluent suburban population that has successful soccer programs and an increasing Hispanic and Southeast Asian middle class that could be part of the fan base. What would hold Milwaukee back more than anything is that you will get no public support for a stadium. There were some examples given of recently built soccer stadiums, and all had significant public financing. You simply will not get that in Milwaukee. Agreed. I don't know if losing the Bucks would change that. I have a feeling that people wouldn't want to lose the title of a "major sports city," and having only one top-4 league franchise (Brewers) would take that title away. I would predict that if the Bucks leave Milwaukee, we'll never have another shot at another professional team (and when I say professional, I mean top-tier).
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Post by uwmfutbol on Jun 9, 2012 9:26:45 GMT -6
Milwaukee would actually be a very desirable market from a fan perspective, a large affluent suburban population that has successful soccer programs and an increasing Hispanic and Southeast Asian middle class that could be part of the fan base. What would hold Milwaukee back more than anything is that you will get no public support for a stadium. There were some examples given of recently built soccer stadiums, and all had significant public financing. You simply will not get that in Milwaukee. San Jose is bucking that trend, though. Lew Wolff is building the stadium and paying for 50 years of upkeep. You'd think he'd be able to convince Herb Kohl to get in on this, given they're BFFs. The fact that this stadium could double for Panther football would be icing on the cake.
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Post by illwauk on Jun 12, 2012 14:28:06 GMT -6
Jimmy and Iwauk, I am "kind" of with you guys but this would be an uphill selling job I think...would be great but key would be convincing that there would be enough events....there are so many concert venues now around here especially in summer...wonder really how often high school football, UWM and soccer of various types would really occur especially in winter and how many days of the year this would be in use and how much revenue vs other things..sure beats what is there now I must say . Steve Considering that of the 11 MPS schools that offer football, only 4 have home fields, I'd figure that it'd get quite a lot of mileage as a football venue alone. Under this logic why even propose this new multi use stadium? After all in this area of the state already you can go to a concert at Alpine Valley or the Marcus Ampitheater. You can make a short drive to Madison to see college football on a big scale or Whitewater to see it on a really successful level. If Road America makes the Mile unnecessary why doesn't the existing access to venues and teams do the same for this idea? Gas prices have made Alpine Valley a very shaky venue. While it's within driving distance of three decently-sized cities (Chicago, Milwaukee and Madison), it's not a short drive from any of them. This is precisely why they lost so many of their long-time shows like Ozzfest and can't seem to keep anything but Jimmy Buffet on its schedule from year-to-year. With a 20-25,000 seat stadium at the Mile, you'd have a venue of roughly the same size within a 20-minute drive of the entire Milwaukee metro area. As far as Whitewater... no one who isn't an alum or have some other formal connection to Whitewater is not driving 60+ minutes to see D3 football, successful or not. They may drive to Madsion, but given that there's almost as many, if not more, Panther alums than Badger alums in the Milwaukee area, it makes sense to try football which becomes all the more likely when you take the problem of a stadium out of the equation. I will grant you that Milwaukee probably wouldn't get an MLS team unless a Division 2 (NASL) club set up shop here and was successful. That's the route that pretty much all of MLS' recent expansion cities (Portland, Seattle, Vancouver and Montreal) took. The problem with the Milwaukee Rampage, and later the Wave United, was that neither had a centrally-located facility rendering them a southshore team (Rampage) and a Menominee Falls-Germantown-NW Milwaukee team (Wave U). The fact that neither club seemed interested in advertising certainly didn't help matters either. One last thing that hasn't come up in this thread yet. With Marquette Stadium and County Stadium demolished, the Mile is the only former Packers venue left in Milwaukee County. I'd say that alone warrants its preservation.
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Post by bigcatlover on Jun 13, 2012 16:04:21 GMT -6
In 8 years of visiting this board, through sad and disappointing seasons as well as exhilarating ones, the saddest and most disappointing of all is to visit the "UWM basketball" messageboard and find people talking for a month about football. I guess you've all given up on basketball here.
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Post by Hack on Jun 13, 2012 16:34:41 GMT -6
In 8 years of visiting this board, through sad and disappointing seasons as well as exhilarating ones, the saddest and most disappointing of all is to visit the "UWM basketball" messageboard and find people talking for a month about football. I guess you've all given up on basketball here. It's June 13. You want to talk basketball? Start a thread and talk basketball. In my eight years of visiting this board, this is the most activity I've seen in the month of June. ... and that's a good thing.
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