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Post by ghostofdylan on Aug 20, 2010 5:43:45 GMT -6
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Post by zvillehaze on Aug 20, 2010 15:32:02 GMT -6
So who are the other three teams to be included? Butler, Milwaukee and WSU? Or do Detroit and Valpo make it?
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Post by BBFran on Aug 20, 2010 15:46:52 GMT -6
Butler, Milwaukee and Detroit would be my guess.
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Post by PantherU on Aug 20, 2010 17:08:35 GMT -6
It's not Wright State. You have to have some semblance of an inside game.
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Post by zvillehaze on Aug 20, 2010 17:18:07 GMT -6
It's not Wright State. You have to have some semblance of an inside game. You keep saying that, but three consecutive 12-6 conference records say otherwise.
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Post by PantherU on Aug 20, 2010 23:45:29 GMT -6
It's not Wright State. You have to have some semblance of an inside game. You keep saying that, but three consecutive 12-6 conference records say otherwise. I think they'll miss Todd Brown more than they know.
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Post by motowntitan on Aug 21, 2010 6:43:43 GMT -6
You keep saying that, but three consecutive 12-6 conference records say otherwise. I think they'll miss Todd Brown more than they know. ZVille, Those 12-6 records had something to do with the coach that is no longer there;) Blackpantheruwm (don't you need to remove the uwm?), I think they will also miss Brownell, Copperwood, and Grote. Also, if you think about the players who were supposed to either start or add significant minutes, you may as well throw in Offut, Dwarka, and Koch. I think when you (or writers) do a pre-season guesstimate of any team or conference, you tend to err on the side of caution. As of right now, it appears that WSU has lost too much for this upcoming season. Could Donlon be better that Brownell? sure Could new players step in and be better than expected? sure Did everyone, (including Butler fans) underestimate the young Butler team from 2 years ago? sure That being said, when you look at what Valpo and Detroit had, plus what they added, I would have to put them ahead of WSU at this point.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Aug 21, 2010 6:57:36 GMT -6
Is the question how would we or how would Joel Welser predict the league standings?
As for Valpo, I think they too often play defense with a cape ... and who wears a cape?
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Post by motowntitan on Aug 21, 2010 7:24:35 GMT -6
Is the question how would we or how would Joel Welser predict the league standings? As for Valpo, I think they too often play defense with a cape ... and who wears a cape? ghostofdylan, I didn't mean it to be a question. My point is that I would like to think we would know better than Joel. However, look at 2008-2009 HL Preseason poll compared to actuals: Preseason: 1.CSU 2.WSU 3.UIC 4.GB 5.Butler 6.Milw 7.Valpo 8.Loyola 9.Detroit 10.YSU Actual: 1.Butler +4 2.GB +2 3.CSU -2 4.WSU -2 5.Milw +1 6.UIC -3 7.YSU +3 8.Loyola 0 9.Valpo -2 10.Detroit -1 And this was from the people that supposedly know the Horizon better (than even most of us). All any of us can do is look at what was lost from any team, and what is gained. The numbers are one part of the equation. However, for most people they become most of the equation that explains their own pre-season guesstimate.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Aug 21, 2010 8:13:55 GMT -6
Motown:
I didn't mean to imply that you were asking a question, but merely asking a question in a general sense.
It should be evident to everyone that the top five teams in the league this coming season will be Butler, Cleveland State, Detroit, Milwaukee and Valpo. After Butler, it's anyone's guess as to who will take the next four places. Mine is that Valpo will land after the other three.
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Post by motowntitan on Aug 21, 2010 8:46:31 GMT -6
Ghostofdylan
Thanks for the clarification. I think Butler will struggle more than most realize- Hayward was a once in a lifetime player (Curry @ Davidson, Wade @ Marquette). Also, losing Veasley and Jukes will hurt more than most are thinking.
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Post by BBFran on Aug 21, 2010 8:54:40 GMT -6
There's no way Butler will go undefeated in the league this year. They aren't going to be as good without the players you mentioned, and the top half of the league has gotten better. That said, any club that can build around Howard, Noren and Mack will be formidable.
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Post by uwm97 on Aug 21, 2010 9:01:48 GMT -6
As for Valpo, I think they too often play defense with a cape ... and who wears a cape? Why would my father being talking to someone in a cape? Why would someone wearing a cape be talking to my father?
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Post by PantherU on Aug 21, 2010 10:08:08 GMT -6
Blackpantheruwm (don't you need to remove the uwm?) Take a longer look.
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Post by ghostofdylan on Aug 21, 2010 16:59:59 GMT -6
I'm Frank Costanza's lawyer.
I agree with much of what's being said above. I don't know about calling Gordon Hayward a "once-in-a-lifetime player," but he is the kind of guy who doesn't come around the Horizon League very often.
Jukes and especially Veasley are not-to-be-overlooked losses for Butler, experienced players with a nose for defense and a knack for timely offensive contributions.
I think Brandon McPherson was the same type of player for Valpo. I also was a big fan of Detroit's Woody Payne.
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