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Post by PantherU on Dec 9, 2009 23:27:39 GMT -6
This is my favorite part about the Phoenix: they make their shots.
This is my least favorite part about the Panthers: they miss their shots.
If we had been shooting decent this season, we'd have at most 2 losses. Like so many of you have said before, and probably the most panthersteve, shooting woes are the coaching staff's fault. I don't think shooting has been given as much of an emphasis as it should.
The defense, minus a lapse here or there, is passable. The offense is running perfectly; how many wide open shots did we miss against Marquette? Save for last night, we've protected the ball all right this season.
But we shoot like sh*t. I'm sorry, but unless you're a freak athlete, you need to be able to shoot consistently.
Hell, the shooting's been pretty bad and one of our only glaring problems for years. What if we'd been shooting well all last season? NIT? The year before? Above .500?
We have tomorrow before the team leaves for NDSU. I say you lock them in the damn Klotsche Center and no one leaves until they've each made X amount of threes and Y amount of mid-range jumpers and Z amount of free throws.
What am I saying, they'd be locking in the baseball and track teams too. All right, lock the net around the court until they're done.
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Post by gman2 on Dec 9, 2009 23:28:39 GMT -6
I do not get though why so many people are starting to right this season off this soon. Why give up so soon. We are in the fifth year of this coaching tenure and are at best a fourth place team, fifth if Loyola can sustain a higher level of play than we can. Even if we improve, where are we at? Are we good enough to win the HL. I'm getting tired with improvements and fourth or fifth place finishes year after year. My son has even given up. I asked him if he would rather see some Panther games this year or Trans Siberian Orchestra and maybe one or two Panther games. He picked TSO and one Panther game. A hard pill to swallow. Maybe I shouldn't have let him watch the Marquette game. I'm also getting tired of the if we did this or if we did that we would have this record talk. Fact, we didn't. And I don't see us doing anytime in the near future.
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Post by gman2 on Dec 9, 2009 23:43:35 GMT -6
Berry deserves credit for having a double double against Wisconsin's front line. He scored 7 of his 13 from the stripe, plus he played with four fouls. If he can do that against UW, I imagine he will be able to do that against anyone in the HL. I know Detroit has bigs, but they are not on the same level as UW's.
For those that watched the game, how did Berry look out there?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 23:47:17 GMT -6
I do not get though why so many people are starting to right this season off this soon. Why give up so soon. We are in the fifth year of this coaching tenure and are at best a fourth place team, fifth if Loyola can sustain a higher level of play than we can. Even if we improve, where are we at? Are we good enough to win the HL. I'm getting tired with improvements and fourth or fifth place finishes year after year. My son has even given up. I asked him if he would rather see some Panther games this year or Trans Siberian Orchestra and maybe one or two Panther games. He picked TSO and one Panther game. A hard pill to swallow. Maybe I shouldn't have let him watch the Marquette game. I'm also getting tired of the if we did this or if we did that we would have this record talk. Fact, we didn't. And I don't see us doing anytime in the near future. 5 years though in a program is pretty short also. The Horizon IMO is a lot tougher overall now than it was than during UWM's 02-03 - 05-06 run. It could be from sitting from where UWM has been the last 4 years but the Horizon has been fighting for respect for years and it's actually pretty balanced these days (for the most part). If you are willing to give up on a program after an up and down 5 years (especially at the mid-major level), then don't jump back up during those 5 years when its at the top. Mid-major programs go in cycles. 06-07 was a darn sharp bottom after the pretty large highs of 02-06. For as quickly as it takes it come back down from a high, it takes a bit more time to come back up from a bottom. Milwaukee's program history, especially of the last 20 years, shows this pretty well. Unfortunately a lot of fans are not willing to take the bad with the good, as evidenced by the programs attendance through its history and the Brewers and Bucks for example.
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Post by nohopspanther on Dec 9, 2009 23:56:22 GMT -6
5 years is a long time, not a short stint. ANY good coach, an actual good coach will be able to win by year 3 of his tenure. Case closed unless you'd like to argue with Bob Knight about coaching.
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Post by thepantherfan on Dec 9, 2009 23:56:27 GMT -6
Im curious as to your definition of "lights out", according to the box score GB shot 48% from the floor (which is very good) and 50% from 3pt range (which is extremely good for a team when they attempt more than 10) AS A TEAM. GB seemed to answer with a 3pt shot every time they needed it. GB played outstanding basketball when it counted, I tip my hat to them. Lights out would be 50% and above, usually closer to 60% Thank you for the clarification.
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Post by thepantherfan on Dec 10, 2009 0:04:51 GMT -6
Don't kid yourselves, folks. Green Bay's guard triumvirate of Rahmon Fletcher, Bryquis Perine and Troy Cotton match up very well against most of the backcourts in the country. Who do you like in Marquette's backcourt? Darius Johnson-Odom and who? Remember, the key to the undersized but tenacious Phoenix this season is its 3-point shooting and extended fullcourt defense. Gotta give credit where credit is due. The back-court was not the match up i was referring too, it was the front court. I'd take Butler, Hayward, and Maymon over Berry, Barkley, and Nelson any day. Just my opinion though.
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Post by thepantherfan on Dec 10, 2009 0:14:37 GMT -6
Berry deserves credit for having a double double against Wisconsin's front line. He scored 7 of his 13 from the stripe, plus he played with four fouls. If he can do that against UW, I imagine he will be able to do that against anyone in the HL. I know Detroit has bigs, but they are not on the same level as UW's. For those that watched the game, how did Berry look out there? Randy stayed in great position on defense, and did well on the glass. GB was able to penetrate and move the ball well which opened up Berry down low for to either finish or draw the foul (normally draw the foul). I can't get over how well GB looked on the defensive side. They played aggressive, switched well, communicated well, missed few assignments, and made UW work for most of their shots.
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Post by PantherU on Dec 10, 2009 0:28:34 GMT -6
To nohops and dkelly, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Kelly, you're right. The Horizon League is far more advanced right now than it was in 2002-03. You don't even need to take my word for it; go to the season-by-season conference RPI. The Horizon League has gradually improved every year. I believe the HL RPI in the Sweet 16 year was 15th-17th in the country. Is this conference even close to that? I know we're 15th right now, but by the end of the season I think we'll settle between 10 and 13.
However, nohops is also right. Yeah, the conference got better. That means we should have taken that extra step. Do we get a pass for Pearl's roster holes? Sure. But the last of that excuse should have gone out the door with last year's team.
Jeter is now in his 5th year running the program. This means he has had each year to build and sustain the program to a high level in the Horizon League. Has he done that? He has certainly built; 9-22, 14-16, 17-14. But as many have pointed out, we're not playing at the level we need to build upon 17-14. We can't continue to play the way we are playing, because this is the level of an 8th place team.
I'm not ready to quit, and neither should any of you. What, we're going to drop everything at 6-4 because things aren't going our way? Toughen the hell up, there's something special about bleeding Black and Gold, being the fan of a mid-major. It's times like these, when it's difficult. Because UW and MU fans don't have to deal with this sh*t. It makes us better fans. So let's buck up and cheer hard, because that team on the court could use a hell of a lot more support than we've been giving them this year.
Like so many of you, I sat through 9-22. I'm not going to quit on them, and neither should any of you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 0:29:05 GMT -6
5 years is a long time, not a short stint. ANY good coach, an actual good coach will be able to win by year 3 of his tenure. Case closed unless you'd like to argue with Bob Knight about coaching. How long did it take to build the program up after Ric Cobb? Yes Bo left after 2 seasons but it still took 5 years to get to the NCAA tournament and win at least a game (and yes they were a layup from winning against Notre Dame but they didn't). While I agree that Coach Knight was one of the greatest coaches ever, he didn't exactly coach at mid-majors. He never really faced any of the same problems that face mid-major programs.
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Post by parkerj on Dec 10, 2009 0:35:40 GMT -6
army!?!?!?!?
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Post by PantherU on Dec 10, 2009 0:41:20 GMT -6
I still think Coach Knight's words apply.
And besides, after all the sh*t TTU went through, when Knight took over they might as well have been a mid-major.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 0:47:09 GMT -6
To nohops and dkelly, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Kelly, you're right. The Horizon League is far more advanced right now than it was in 2002-03. You don't even need to take my word for it; go to the season-by-season conference RPI. The Horizon League has gradually improved every year. I believe the HL RPI in the Sweet 16 year was 15th-17th in the country. Is this conference even close to that? I know we're 15th right now, but by the end of the season I think we'll settle between 10 and 13. However, nohops is also right. Yeah, the conference got better. That means we should have taken that extra step. Do we get a pass for Pearl's roster holes? Sure. But the last of that excuse should have gone out the door with last year's team. Jeter is now in his 5th year running the program. This means he has had each year to build and sustain the program to a high level in the Horizon League. Has he done that? He has certainly built; 9-22, 14-16, 17-14. But as many have pointed out, we're not playing at the level we need to build upon 17-14. We can't continue to play the way we are playing, because this is the level of an 8th place team. I'm not ready to quit, and neither should any of you. What, we're going to drop everything at 6-4 because things aren't going our way? Toughen the hell up, there's something special about bleeding Black and Gold, being the fan of a mid-major. It's times like these, when it's difficult. Because UW and MU fans don't have to deal with this sh*t. It makes us better fans. So let's buck up and cheer hard, because that team on the court could use a hell of a lot more support than we've been giving them this year. Like so many of you, I sat through 9-22. I'm not going to quit on them, and neither should any of you. I don't disagree with anyone in regards to how badly the team is playing (and especially shooting) right now. I agree, until they start playing and shooting better, this current level play doesn't cut it. Is the poor shooting an aberration or is it something that goes the other way? I don't know, personally I think its an aberration. They haven't really clicked offensively yet this season (other than Texas St.) but that also excites me. How good can these guys be when the offense does finally click? Yeah, they've played and beaten some pretty weak teams so far but if Milwaukee was as bad as people are claiming, those W's should have been L's instead. If it means they don't click until the heart of conference play begins but they start playing to their potential, hey I will take it. I think everyone knew unless they beat WKU, Marquette and UW and had a made a run in the preseason NIT, the road to the postseason runs through the conference. It would have been nice to have had a tougher NC schedule but it often doesn't work out that way at the mid-major level. Right now, the program needs wins and they are 6-4 after ten games. Last year they were 5-5 after ten games, 3-7 two years ago and 2-8 3 years ago. After 10 games in 2005-2006 and 2004-2005, Milwaukee was 7-3. At the mid-major level (and pretty much college basketball in general) you do not go from 9-22 to 22-9 in one year. It takes years to build back up and they are doing just that like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 0:51:59 GMT -6
I don't really count a branch of the United States Armed Forces as being a mid-major. Yeah, most of their athletes that attend those schools are sacrificing quite a bit more than most who play for any non-service school and I respect the hell out of that but those schools don't exactly have the same problems ($$$ usually) as mid-majors.
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Post by PantherU on Dec 10, 2009 0:53:47 GMT -6
This is what I see.
The team scores 68 points per game last season, good for second in the conference. The team shoots 39.7%, worst in the conference.
2007-08 we were 6th in scoring, but still under 40% shooting and last in the league in FG%.
2006-07 also 6th in scoring, and also last in shooting percentage and under 40%.
In the last three seasons, there have been three teams to shoot under 40% for the season in the Horizon League. The 2006-07 CSU Vikings, and the 06-07, 07-08, 08-09 Milwaukee Panthers.
Aberration? No, cold shooting is the god damn norm.
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