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Post by DunneDeal on Feb 27, 2009 14:00:57 GMT -6
I'm sorry that your offended at some jag that none of us know...but your taking it out on us is not a fair shake either...Frankly, we have deal with it..he's a f&%$k.
We do all yell at the dips..if they stop they do, if they dont well tough luck for us. we dont have the say of who can stay and who can go. plus were not going to start kicking kids out, cause then kids wont want to come. its a catch 22
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Post by milwsport on Feb 27, 2009 15:33:57 GMT -6
I don't sit near the student section so I don't often hear one person yelling. I do however hear a number of people doing a chant. And now a member of the section has posted on here that at least one of the offensive chants is led by a leader of the section.
While I'm not sure if that is what's happening, I haven't seen any denials. If that is true it should hardly come as a surprise that others feel free to join in with their own individual and collective catcalls.
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Post by PantherU on Feb 27, 2009 15:46:30 GMT -6
You haven't heard a denial? Both dunnedeal and I have said that it wasn't me.
Beartrap's point of view is from the front of the section, I'm sure it seems like a big mess of people behind him; I know because that's what it seemed like when I was up front. But he can't know where some random person came out and said some random thing.
I will agree with Dunne and say that no board member started it, at least not from where I could see.
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Post by BBFran on Feb 27, 2009 17:02:26 GMT -6
Fortunately, my hearing is going.
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Post by apaladino5150 on Feb 27, 2009 18:42:59 GMT -6
I don't know Jimmy but he doesn't come across as the type that would start something like that.
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Post by milwsport on Feb 27, 2009 19:56:26 GMT -6
I don't think he is either.
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Post by pantherpanther on Feb 27, 2009 20:07:03 GMT -6
Jimmy is young, but intelligent. I seriously doubt he would start an offensive chant like that. Now I have seen him heckle a bench to death (of which I am very proud of you son), but that's about it. Carry on...you are students, and should be allowed to have fun in a tasteful way of course
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Post by PantherU on Feb 27, 2009 20:20:19 GMT -6
I think the worst thing I did this year was tell Jimmy Collins to shut the f*** up and then got into a 25-foot argument with Tracy Dildy.
Like I said, I don't think beartrap meant me personally, there are a lot of students there and it's very hard, even for me, to stand out from the crowd when there are 75+ in such a small area. Reading what he said, he meant it came from the party section, which is true. We had a recent meeting where beartrap encouraged creativity for the guys in the back, so I think we'll see change in that regard on Tuesday.
I did heckle Ben Woodside, though the furthest I got was about 5 variations of "Ben Woodside Sucks." There's not much you can do when you don't believe what you're yelling at a guy hahaha.
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Post by buppie05 on Feb 27, 2009 22:10:45 GMT -6
There is no place for the chants you all are describing, but from the sounds of it you can't really blame these "occasional" student section members for anything else other than their own ignorance. The fact is "however sad" is that many of them have probably never been corrected when chanting these things in the past, or been explicitly told that it is wrong. A lot of the students don't hail from a diverse city, but rather from non-diverse rural areas where this type of thing may have been fostered.
I think if you set up a sign or board with official "codes of conduct" for all fans, especially the students section, it would cut down on this sort of thing drastically.
Just a thought.
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Post by gopanthers011 on Feb 27, 2009 23:43:58 GMT -6
Well... There's nothing we can do to stop the students, drunk OR not, from saying what they want. Being in the front, if I see a security about to reprimand a student I step in first and tell him/her to cool it off for a bit. Yes, there tends to be more drunk students, but not all of them are. Also, offensive chants can also be said by students who are NOT drunk. I'm also here to say that not just the "party section" that starts offensive chants. If people see a real problem, I would kindly suggest they e-mail someone of significance in the University, not just trying to solve the problem on the discussion board.
Also, this is a student section, not a job. I will not wear a special shirt that sets me apart from the rest of the students.
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Post by PantherU on Feb 28, 2009 0:36:45 GMT -6
Here's the straight truth.
Two weeks ago, I was approached at a women's basketball game by Dr. Helen to tell me that she received a letter from Jimmy Collins' wife about the problems surrounding the UIC-UWM game. There were reports of the student section yelling dirty things at the coaching staff and the players. Of these, none of them were racially or sexually-oriented except for the "Vanderqueer" chant.
It was a chant that came up last year. I'm sorry to have been a part of it then, but we discussed that on the board back when it took place last year.
It came up again this year, to which I went to the group that started it and told them it was garbage. It continued.
After Dr. Helen told me about the letter, I spoke with a couple of the other SBGC members, and collectively we decided it would be a part of our meeting that Friday.
It was discussed at length that the chants should be cut out in favor of more creative chants. A lot came up and were good, so we felt we could go forward with them.
They never got in the game. I know I misplaced my copy of the three-page chant sheet, so it wasn't available to me for the Butler or NDSU games. I can't speak for other people, but I suspect the same thing; we just didn't have them.
In the North Dakota State game, I began ripping on Ben Woodside (to no avail, that guy is good). At some point, a different person began the Ben likes Men chant. I am more sorry to say now than I was last year that I took part in the chant. P2, I am young but it's no excuse and I shouldn't have allowed it to continue, much less take part in it.
I sometimes have a hard time grasping my place within the student section. I often forget about the loud, booming voice and feel as though I can just sink in with the rest of the section. It's not the case, and I got called on it by beartrap. I maintain that I didn't start them, but as he rightly pointed out to me tonight, my position in the student section makes whoever started it a moot point.
I'm very sorry. I need to take more responsibility for myself and the student section as a whole. I'm not the best leader, in fact I think most people would see me as far from it. I do try, but I have bad moments like everyone else. It's no excuse; I'm seen by some as "the face" of the student section, and in that role I'm responsible for what goes on inside it. In this case, I forgot myself and joined in on a hateful chant that brought out the worst in me, that I can be an idiot and ignore my values.
What this all comes down to, I suppose is that I'm sorry. I'm sorry to those who were offended, I'm sorry to those who had to deal with hearing it, and most of all I apologize to Sport, who I respect as much as anyone on this board and is a good man that shouldn't have to keep dealing with this.
I'm willing to take a hit for this. Obviously my leadership skills are in question. If you all think it's just, I will sit on the other side of the arena from the student section on Tuesday as punishment.
Once again I'm sorry.
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Post by valpofan56 on Feb 28, 2009 2:01:35 GMT -6
Here's the straight truth. Two weeks ago, I was approached at a women's basketball game by Dr. Helen to tell me that she received a letter from Jimmy Collins' wife about the problems surrounding the UIC-UWM game. There were reports of the student section yelling dirty things at the coaching staff and the players. Of these, none of them were racially or sexually-oriented except for the "Vanderqueer" chant. It was a chant that came up last year. I'm sorry to have been a part of it then, but we discussed that on the board back when it took place last year. It came up again this year, to which I went to the group that started it and told them it was garbage. It continued. After Dr. Helen told me about the letter, I spoke with a couple of the other SBGC members, and collectively we decided it would be a part of our meeting that Friday. It was discussed at length that the chants should be cut out in favor of more creative chants. A lot came up and were good, so we felt we could go forward with them. They never got in the game. I know I misplaced my copy of the three-page chant sheet, so it wasn't available to me for the Butler or NDSU games. I can't speak for other people, but I suspect the same thing; we just didn't have them. In the North Dakota State game, I began ripping on Ben Woodside (to no avail, that guy is good). At some point, a different person began the Ben likes Men chant. I am more sorry to say now than I was last year that I took part in the chant. P2, I am young but it's no excuse and I shouldn't have allowed it to continue, much less take part in it. I sometimes have a hard time grasping my place within the student section. I often forget about the loud, booming voice and feel as though I can just sink in with the rest of the section. It's not the case, and I got called on it by beartrap. I maintain that I didn't start them, but as he rightly pointed out to me tonight, my position in the student section makes whoever started it a moot point. I'm very sorry. I need to take more responsibility for myself and the student section as a whole. I'm not the best leader, in fact I think most people would see me as far from it. I do try, but I have bad moments like everyone else. It's no excuse; I'm seen by some as "the face" of the student section, and in that role I'm responsible for what goes on inside it. In this case, I forgot myself and joined in on a hateful chant that brought out the worst in me, that I can be an idiot and ignore my values. What this all comes down to, I suppose is that I'm sorry. I'm sorry to those who were offended, I'm sorry to those who had to deal with hearing it, and most of all I apologize to Sport, who I respect as much as anyone on this board and is a good man that shouldn't have to keep dealing with this. I'm willing to take a hit for this. Obviously my leadership skills are in question. If you all think it's just, I will sit on the other side of the arena from the student section on Tuesday as punishment. Once again I'm sorry. I hope you guys use a lot of the cheers you led at the Green Bay @ Valpo game! That stuff was hilarious!
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Post by apaladino5150 on Feb 28, 2009 6:36:12 GMT -6
Jimmy Collins' wife should be sending a letter to UIC officials regarding the bad coaching job he's doing!
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Post by milwsport on Feb 28, 2009 14:34:47 GMT -6
Jimmy, thanks for the admission and apology. I know you've done these cheers because I've looked over during them and saw your participation.
It's easy to get caught up in the moment. It's easy to forget that the vast majority of people who come to and/or watch or listen to the games, don't have any contact with students other than what they see or hear at the games.
It's also easy to forget that other students may not want to be part of a section that seems to be offensive at times.
All that being said, it should also be said that you've done a great job getting the section going and inspiring ferver among many students. The creative non-offensive cheers are great. Some of them are UWM originals and that's great, it forges traditions and an identity. Yes you've had help in building a better section but you've been the driving force behind it.
You deserve much credit for that, so don't beat yourself up over this. Put it behind you. Just keep in mind that as a section leader and the sports editor of the Post, people will hold you to a higher standard.
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Post by jayrob on Feb 28, 2009 16:39:35 GMT -6
Well... There's nothing we can do to stop the students, drunk OR not, from saying what they want. Being in the front, if I see a security about to reprimand a student I step in first and tell him/her to cool it off for a bit. Yes, there tends to be more drunk students, but not all of them are. Also, offensive chants can also be said by students who are NOT drunk. I'm also here to say that not just the "party section" that starts offensive chants. If people see a real problem, I would kindly suggest they e-mail someone of significance in the University, not just trying to solve the problem on the discussion board. Also, this is a student section, not a job. I will not wear a special shirt that sets me apart from the rest of the students. What's wrong with taking pride in being an elite cheering section? As a former member of the Izzone at Michigan State, I was proud to be part of that cheering section and differentiated from the run of the mill drunk student at the game. We were expected to follow a certain set of guidelines, and it made for an awesome presence that is known nationally. Now I know we won't get the same type of attendance as a Big Ten school, but what's wrong with working with the SA on some sort of official student section? It may be able to circumvent some of these things, and make a more favorable public impression of our university in this specific setting. And Jimmy, thanks for your honesty. I'm sure your passion and efforts at increasing participation are well-received and appreciated. Hopefully you'll continue in these efforts and at the same time remind others nearby that you can be a passionate fan without socioculturally offensive chants.
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