dutchpthr
Junior
ain't much if it ain't dutch
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Post by dutchpthr on May 27, 2005 19:28:34 GMT -6
new conference USA is out of the question since they only want schools that have football, and right now i really don't see that happening here any time soon.
if by some stroke we are able to at some point down the road get football back here it would be great and then we can talk about jumping to a new conference, but as many have stated before it just is not happening, and to be pretty blunt i really don't think unless we just start running away with our conference in the upcoming years (i.e. Gonzaga, they are a team that should consider a jump IMO) then we can seriously start to maybe push this idea, but i would be willing to think that Bud and the rest of the Athletic staff has thought about this before and will continue to think about it, and until something happens i am very happy with staying here in the HL.
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Post by ChiPanther on May 31, 2005 23:19:47 GMT -6
This Big 10 talk is crazy. It's not going to ever happen.
Now, back to the Horizon. I think this has been discussed before, but the key is not to find a better conference but rather to make the Horizon better. UWM, UIC, Butler, UW-GB...that's a solild base for a good mid-major. Add Valpo, and maybe steal a couple teams of Missouri Valley caliber (and of course lose YSU) and you've got a very competitive league.
There really isn't another conference for UWM to join right now. MAC has football, CUSA now has all football schools, and Missouri Valley is all rural schools. Mid-Con is a step down. The only realistic move is A10.
So, back to my point, the best thing would be to make the Horizon better. Drop the 2 weakest, and find 2 stronger teams to add. Combine that with recent success in the NCAA tourney (2 Sweet 16 in 3 years) and I think we could be looking at 2 teams in the tourney on a regular basis. '
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Post by Pantherholic on Jun 1, 2005 1:10:38 GMT -6
2 Sweet 16 in 3 years?! what team are u talking about? i don't see how Valpo would EVER join our conference. if they're too chicken sh*t to comply w/ our arrangement i don't see how they'd decide to play us twice a year permanently. MVC might be rural but considering Southern IL, Creighton, and Northern Iowa all made the tourney this year, who cares where they're located? A10 would help our conference SOS b/c its no lie that beating teams like GW and St. Joe's would be more helpful than UWGB and Detroit. I say instead of beefing up our conference we go the direction of Gonzaga and try to simply dominate what we have now. as long as Jeter can maintain solid non-conference schedules (and have them signed unlike Pearl) and Bidlingmyer can bring in quality guys i don't see why we can't dominate. Detroit will be tough simply b/c they can get Mich. St. rejects which will keep them competitive.
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Post by Hack on Jun 1, 2005 7:30:55 GMT -6
2 Sweet 16 in 3 years?! what team are u talking about? Not too hard to figure out really since he's not referring to a single team, but the Horizon as a whole ... Butler in 2003, UWM in 2005. Good post, Chi. Probably the best I've seen relating to the whole "conference" debate. UWM doesn't have football and won't have football ... MAC and CUSA require football. Big 10 ... whatever. UWM is in a conference with metropolitan areas like Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis and Cleveland. MVC has Carbondale, Cedar Rapids, Omaha, Peoria, Evansville, etc. Something tells me even if UWM wanted to go to the MVC, who's to say MVC wants UWM? Maybe they like having schools not located in metropolitan areas. This whole abandon ship mentality is stupid. Yes, the Horizon had a down year. Will this trend continue in my opinion? Not likely. The Horizon is a lot closer to the MVC than it is to the Mid-Con ... UWM's 12 seed in the tournament after a down year for the Horizon is a testament to that. It wasn't that long ago this league had THREE teams in the tournament. Will that happen again? Maybe not next year, but it could happen in a few. Progress made at Detroit and Loyola, along with the consistancy of UWM and UIC, give me hope that the Horizon will get stronger in the next year or two. The bottom line is ... UWM has TWO NCAA berths in its history. Two. Let UWM establish itself as a Horizon power on consistant basis for 6-8 years before you start looking for new game to hunt.
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Post by pnthr30 on Jun 1, 2005 8:06:55 GMT -6
Haven't heard from you in a while Hack............by the way, great post!
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Post by aknowsense on Jun 1, 2005 12:06:23 GMT -6
[quote author=sec325row1 board=Games thread=1117045369 post=1117632655 The bottom line is ... UWM has TWO NCAA berths in its history. Two. Let UWM establish itself as a Horizon power on consistant basis for 6-8 years before you start looking for new game to hunt.[/quote]
There is no reason to jump conferences; (coaches do that) if we can get quality non-conf opponents and keep having regular and post season success the respect will come because it's earned. We had a great run this year and hope that we can do it again and again but we've only had NCAA tournament success 1 year; now if we win a game or two in the pre-season NIT I think that will start to bring the horizon league back on the radar again, as it was a couple years back. I'm a fan of this team but there's no way they can compete year to year in a major conference. Keep winning in this conference keep getting the automatic bid and keep getting wins in the tourney and the rest of the conference will have to step up; just like they did when Xavier (before UWM) and then Butler was starting to dominate. I don't think anyone would argue that some of those Butler teams were very good on a national scale. This conference has only been around for 24 years and as the Horizon it's only been around for 11 years so please let's give the league a chance to at least hit puberty??
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Post by xubrew on Jun 7, 2005 15:45:09 GMT -6
personally, i think you guys are pretty well set where you are. it's a philosophy of mine that although playing in a tough conference can certainly help a team's success, it is not a necessity by any means. several others have mentioned gonzaga. you play 28 games a season and i believe only 16 of those are conference games. the whole idea of wanting in a good conference, i assume, is to play bigger teams. well, i would suggest following gonzaga's lead and playing big teams out of conference. despite being in the wcc, they are still constantly in the rankings, on televison ten times a year or more, and receive high seeds in the ncaa tournament. it can DEFINITELY be done regardless of what league you're in. the big west is WAAAY inferior to the horizon league, and pacific still managed to earn a #8 seed in last year's tournament. like i said, it can be done.
you can't control who you play in conference, but you can control who you play out of it. my advice would be to beef up the ooc, which you guys have certainly done. anyway, don't be fooled into thinking you can't be successful on a national level because you're in the horizon league. you can be.
btw, as a xavier fan, i can tell you that the a-10 just expanded and as now bloated enough as it is with fourteen teams. personally, i think more changes are coming down the road. if the non football schools in the big east ever split off, they may invite a few a-10 teams to join forces with them. that could create some sort of shakeup that uwm could definitely get in on. until then (assuming it ever happens) i think you guys are in good shape. you have a good program in a respectable league and i don't think the glass ceiling is as low as some of you think. hell, you were in the sweet sixteen last year. that's pretty damn good. there's no reason to think it can't happen again and maybe even go further than that.
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Post by formerseasonticketholder on Jun 11, 2005 8:50:23 GMT -6
Hadn't seen anything on this news posted here yet - uwmpanthers.collegesports.com/genrel/060105aab.html - but the Panthers have won the Mccaferty Award for the hl's most succsessful all around athletic department. This indicates the HL is a good fit IMHO.
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Post by bigjim98 on Jun 13, 2005 16:17:18 GMT -6
BLAH BLAH BLAH BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE HORIZON WILL ALWAYS BE THE HORIZON...LOT'S OF REASON'S WHY WE SHOULD STAY EXCEPT THAT IF WE WANT TO PLAY IN NCAA TOURNAMENT ON A regular basis then we have to move...case closed horizon will always be the horizon....EAT BIG....THINK BIG...LIVE MFING BIG
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Post by hueyp on Jun 13, 2005 18:03:32 GMT -6
"BLAH BLAH BLAH BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE HORIZON WILL ALWAYS BE THE HORIZON...LOT'S OF REASON'S WHY WE SHOULD STAY EXCEPT THAT IF WE WANT TO PLAY IN NCAA TOURNAMENT ON A regular basis then we have to move...case closed horizon will always be the horizon....EAT BIG....THINK BIG...LIVE MFING BIG"
If we want to play in the NCAA tournament on a regular basis then we have to move???
IMO two out the last three years ain't bad. I think that is slightly better than, umm... let's say Northwestern or Penn State. There are plenty of schools in bigger conferences that haven't smelled the tourney in years (and not just the doormats). Remember the Yoder years at UW? Certainly the multiple at large bids are mostly saved for the top conferences, so "moving", short of moving to a MAJOR conference (I don't think Bud's phone is ringing off the hook from the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Pac 10, etc.) AND finishing consistently in the top half is not going to increase our chances at an annual bid.
Short of that, playing a tough non-conference schedule, and finishing in the mix every year will net some automatic bids plus an occaisional at-large bid. Just moving up a "conference or two" will not change that too much.
Gonzaga may b*tch about their seed every year but they are always in the big dance. Move them to the PAC 10 for a decade and I'd like to see them maintain that streak.
Just my opinion.
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Post by formerseasonticketholder on Jun 13, 2005 18:08:19 GMT -6
the HL may always, be the HL, or maybe the name will change again and it will be something else. either way, the best way to keep going to the NCAAs is to keep bringing in good basketball players, not to change conferences. this league is a good fit no matter what you want to eat.
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Post by bigjim98 on Jun 13, 2005 20:23:49 GMT -6
HUEY AND GHOLA both great posts....we differ in that I believe that all programs go in 2 directions: forwards and backwards....there are many remarkable things about uwm that make it top conference potential...yet the challenges would be many....I posted some stuff in march about trying to upgrade conferences yet got blazed by this board's faithful....wow never thought so many would be so protective of their mid-major status...but the program has come along way in 15 years...It seems that there is not a consensus for attempting to upgrade conferences in the fan base thus without a unified grassroots support this type of effort seems fruitless....yet my freshman year at uwm was 1989 and since then I have been very lucky to witness some remarkable things...sweet 16 from a school when i was there we could leave the library and catch the second half at the klotsche...no more than 20 people at the game...there were halftimes when we would shoot around so to look at that and then to have been lucky enough to be at the sweet 16 game makes me scream....DREAM BIG...EAT BIG...LIVE MFING BIG....GO PANTHERS
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Post by UICJason on Jun 15, 2005 8:53:07 GMT -6
This questions has nothing to do with desire or want to or eating big or whatever. This has to do with being realistic. UWM has been very successful lately, and that's great for UWM and it's students, but what about UWM isn't Mid-Major?
It's a burgeoning University without football that isn't very old and doesn't have old basketball success.
All that is fine. It takes time...but as of now, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think you can or should make a change. You should hope for the Horizon to be better, which it can be. For UIC and Butler to be teams like they can be, not the mediocre teams they were last year. For LU to bring some history to the table, and for UDM to be tough. The HL has no issue being a multiple bid conference when it deserves it. It just hasn't lately.
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